The Dispensationalist Focus Upon Old Covenant Israel

[Jerry Shugart]

Dispensationalists see only the multitude of Old Covenant Israel and not the remnant.

The difference between you and the dispensationism is the fact that the dispensationalist understands that this prophecy is not referring to a remant out of Israel:

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

Here the passage says, "for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

Anyone who would assert that this is referring to a mere remnant is as blind as a bat! All you prove is the fact that you put more faith in your preconceived ideas than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

 

[HisServant]

Let us look at the following promise the LORD made to David in regard to the land:

"Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David...I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).​

"And move no more"! This promise according to the Davidic covenant is restated later by the prophet Jeremiah:

"For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up" (Jer.24:6).​

"And not pluck them up"! The prophet Amos says the same thing:

"And I will bring again the captivity of my people ...And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God" (Amos 9:14,15).​

Therefore we can understand that the Lord has made promises to David in respect to the promised land that have not yet been fulfilled. There has never been a time when the children of Israel have been brought back to the promised land and have not "been pulled up out of their land" (unless that is being fulfilled now).

Since the preterists have no place for the fulfillment of this promise in their eschatology they say;



You overlook the fact that the LORD said that He would fulfill His promises which He made to David and He will not alter those promises:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

Since the preterists have no place in their eschatology for the fulfillment of these promises of the LORD they make Him a liar because, according to them, the LORD will never fulfill those promises.

And your understanding of this amounts to a pile of dung.... you really need to think bigger and use that gray matter God placed between your ears.

But then again, since you do not have the Holy Spirit helping you discern the meaning of scripture.. asking you to do what would be impossible.

 

[northwye]

As is often the case, dispensationalists set up a disagreement between scriptures. Jeremiah 31: 3-34 does not mention that it is to be fulfilled in a remnant of Old Covenant Israel. Therefore, the dispensationalists say the New Covenant was not begun in a remnant of Israel. What Paul says in Romans 1: 1-5 is ignored and so is Romans 11: 17-20 saying, in metaphoric language, that the unbelieving branches were broken off. We have to put scriptures together to come to the knowledge of the truth, not follow a tradition of men like dispensationalism. Since Romans 11: 5 says a remnant was elected by grace, then those who were broken off are the multitude, the large majority. Therefore, the New Covenant was begun by a remnant of Old Covenant Israel. But dispensationalism follows what men have said - John Darby, C.I. Scofield, Lewis S. Chafer and a whole bunch of others - and dispensationalism does not come up with two plus two equals four. For it two plus two equals something other than four, or actually nothing in scripture is added together at all by dispensationalists. They like to isolate each text to make it easier to apply their theology to the isolated parts.

And Israel was expanded at the time the New Covenant was put in place by Christ. "And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God." Hosea 2: 23

Non-Jews were added to the New Covenant as predicted in Hosea 2: 23, beginning in Acts 10, to join as equals that remnant of Old Covenant Israel which began the Body of Christ in Acts 2.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And your understanding of this amounts to a pile of dung.... you really need to think bigger and use that gray matter God placed between your ears.

You say that it is a pile of dung but you did not even attempt to prove anything which I said is in error.

Why is that?

 

[HisServant]

You say that it is a pile of dung but you did not even attempt to prove anything which I said is in error.

Why is that?

Why... every time we do post something in context you just ignore it anyway..

Your beliefs are more important than scripture... so you only use scripture when it up your non-biblical framework and usually only verses or parts of verses and you ignore the rest of the chapter or book.

You guys are the Dan Brown of the Bible.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Therefore, the New Covenant was begun by a remnant of Old Covenant Israel.

That is not what the dispensationalists teach about this passage:

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

Instead, they say that this prophecy will be fulfilled in the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

We can see that the "fathers" of those who will receive the New Covenant are described in the following way:

"Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt."​

The fathers of those who will be given the New Covenant were the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That means that those who will receive the New Covenant will also be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as well.

And there has never been a time when all those physical descendants of the house of Israel and the house of Judah have had their sins forgiven.

So the fulfillment of the prophecy of Jeremiah 31:31-34 remains in the future. However, the preterists have no place in their eschatology for its fulfillment.

The Lord promised that all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob at some point in time will have their sins forgiven. However, the preterists have no place for that to happen according to their eschatology so the god which they worship makes promises and then refuses to fulfill those promises.

 

[Jacob]

That is not what the dispensationalists teach about this passage:

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

Instead, they say that this prophecy will be fulfilled in the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

We can see that the "fathers" of those who will receive the New Covenant are described in the following way:

"Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt."

The fathers of those who will be given the New Covenant were the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That means that those who will receive the New Covenant will also be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as well.

And there has never been a time when all those physical descendants of the house of Israel and the house of Judah have had their sins forgiven.

So the fulfillment of the prophecy of Jeremiah 31:31-34 remains in the future. However, the preterists have no place in their eschatology for its fulfillment.

The Lord promised that all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob at some point in time will have their sins forgiven. However, the preterists have no place for that to happen according to their eschatology so the god which they worship makes promises and then refuses to fulfill those promises.

Does not the writer of the book of Hebrews quote from this passage?

 

[HisServant]

That is not what the dispensationalists teach about this passage:

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

Instead, they say that this prophecy will be fulfilled in the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

We can see that the "fathers" of those who will receive the New Covenant are described in the following way:

"Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt."​

The fathers of those who will be given the New Covenant were the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That means that those who will receive the New Covenant will also be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as well.

And there has never been a time when all those physical descendants of the house of Israel and the house of Judah have had their sins forgiven.

So the fulfillment of the prophecy of Jeremiah 31:31-34 remains in the future. However, the preterists have no place in their eschatology for its fulfillment.

The Lord promised that all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob at some point in time will have their sins forgiven. However, the preterists have no place for that to happen according to their eschatology so the god which they worship makes promises and then refuses to fulfill those promises.

It could be argued that almost everyone on the earth right now (except a few isolated pockets) has a scrap of Semitic DNA in their system that can be traced back to Abraham.

So is the entire world going to be saved in that verse?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Your beliefs are more important than scripture... so you only use scripture when it up your non-biblical framework and usually only verses or parts of verses and you ignore the rest of the chapter or book.

You talk big but when it comes time to actually proving what I said is in error you are not to be found. Let us look at the following promise the LORD made to David in regard to the land:

"Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David...I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).​

"And move no more"! This promise according to the Davidic covenant is restated later by the prophet Jeremiah:

"For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up" (Jer.24:6).​

"And not pluck them up"! The prophet Amos says the same thing:

"And I will bring again the captivity of my people ...And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God" (Amos 9:14,15).​

Therefore we can understand that the Lord has made promises to David in respect to the promised land that have not yet been fulfilled. There has never been a time when the children of Israel have been brought back to the promised land and have not "been pulled up out of their land" (unless that is being fulfilled now).

Since the preterists have no place for the fulfillment of this promise in their eschatology they say;

Just because he doesnt fulfill them the way that you personally want does not make them unfulfilled.

You overlook the fact that the LORD said that He would fulfill His promises which He made to David and He will not alter those promises:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

Since the preterists have no place in their eschatology for the fulfillment of these promises of the LORD they make Him a liar because, according to them, the LORD will never fulfill those promises.

So far all you have done is talk big at the same time you run and hide from the facts revealed in the passages of the Scriptures which I quoted.

It could be argued that almost everyone on the earth right now (except a few isolated pockets) has a scrap of Semitic DNA in their system that can be traced back to Abraham.

So is the entire world going to be saved in that verse?

If you actually read what is said at Jeremiah 31:31-34 you would know that it is only those of the house of Israel and the house of Judah who will be saved.

You prove once again that when it comes to understanding the Holy Scriptures you are clueless!

 

[HisServant]

You talk big but when it comes time to actually proving what I said is in error you are not to be found. Let us look at the following promise the LORD made to David in regard to the land:

"Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David...I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).​

"And move no more"! This promise according to the Davidic covenant is restated later by the prophet Jeremiah:

"For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up" (Jer.24:6).​

"And not pluck them up"! The prophet Amos says the same thing:

"And I will bring again the captivity of my people ...And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God" (Amos 9:14,15).​

Therefore we can understand that the Lord has made promises to David in respect to the promised land that have not yet been fulfilled. There has never been a time when the children of Israel have been brought back to the promised land and have not "been pulled up out of their land" (unless that is being fulfilled now).

Since the preterists have no place for the fulfillment of this promise in their eschatology they say;



You overlook the fact that the LORD said that He would fulfill His promises which He made to David and He will not alter those promises:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

Since the preterists have no place in their eschatology for the fulfillment of these promises of the LORD they make Him a liar because, according to them, the LORD will never fulfill those promises.

So far all you have done is talk big at the same time you run and hide from the facts revealed in the passages of the Scriptures which I quoted.

He hasn't altered them... you just have a twentieth century view of their fulfillment.

 

[Ben Masada]

That majority or multitude of physical Israel absolutely does not want the Gospel of Christ or Christ as their Messiah. They are of the spirit of anti-Christ of I John 4: 3.

You are totally wrong because the gospel of Jesus was Judaism and we all are with Jesus on that. And those who are of the spirit of the anti-Christ belong in the ranks of Christianity itself. (I John 2:28,29)

Before the age ends, all those who have been elected to salvation will have been saved.

What ages, the ages of the generation of Jesus? If that's so, it has ended Jesus has not returned.

The dispensationalists appear to say that physical Israel is the nation called Israel over in the Middle East and they imply that physical Israel is made up now of those in Talmudic Judaism.

Physical Israel is the remnant of Israel according to Isaiah 10:21 who returned to rebuild the Jewish third Commonwealth.

... to defend the Gospel of Christ from the dispensationalist errors. Yet almost none of the dispensationlists nor the Christians who are not dispensationalists make an effort to evangelize the Jews in Talmudic Judaism.

The gospel of Christ is Judaism, the Faith of Jesus.

...how difficult it is to change the Jewish attitude toward Jesus Christ and the Gospel, which is all the teachings of Christ and his apostles.

The teachings of Jesus and his apostles was Judaism.

You must have the truth in order to be en effective evangelist to bring any of the Jews to the knowledge of the truth.

The opposite is true. The Jews already have the truth and must bring Christian evangelists to the Truth.

Galatians 3, 3, 16, 26-29 implies with a certainty that the way of entering Israel by the physical bloodline is no longer in effect.

That's because of the Pauline gospel of Replacement Theology.

"And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days." Daniel 11: 33.

And many among the Jews have felled to the power of the Christian sword.

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 12: 17

Yes, the commandments of God aka the Law and the testimony of Jesus aka Judaism.

Dispensationalists though, are teaching that the entire house of physical Israel will be saved when God goes back to a dispensation of law, which is nowhere in scripture.

That's evidence that you never read the Tanach aka Jewish Scripture.

the remnant to begin again his work toward redemption. Jeremiah 6: 9 says "they shall throughly glean the remnant of Israel."

Isaiah 10:21. The remnant who returned to rebuild Israel anew.

Dispensationalists see only the multitude of Old Covenant Israel and not the remnant. It is the multitude in Romans 11: 17-20 which is broken off because of unbelief, while the remnant (Romans 11: 5) is beloved for the sake of the fathers in Romans 11: 28. The fathers are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You have to put two and two together to make truth in scripture, "precept must be upon precept, line upon line, here a little and there a little." Isaiah 28: 10 Two plus two must equal four and cannot be any other number, not five., for example.

And the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology has tried to invalidate the work of the remnant of Israel.

 

[Interplanner]

Actually, BenM, Paul's theology at its core is dealing with what Judaism replaced. Nevermind the title 'stoicheia tou kosmou' for the moment, he does show in Gal 3:17 that Judaism (as he was taught) voided and replaced the Promise (of the Gospel) with the Law. Meaning, all blessing promised was to arrive in and through the Law.

This is why even today Rabbi Dennis Prager teaches that Judaism had and has a trinity, and torah is one of the three.

Whatever place the Law occupied at that time was replaced, properly, by Christ, in the teaching Paul was commissioned by God. Or by the New Covenant. So you either know the apostolic letter to the Hebrews and refuse it, or you aren't aware that that is what it is saying.

In the west coast area of Little Asia in the 1st century (Ephesus, Colossae, Galatia [Modern area of Galatasary] etc), where Paul settled-in to minister for quite few years, there was a neo-Judaism. I say neo- because it claimed to have new visits from the very angels who delivered torah in Moses' time. They re-energized the Law (we are talking mostly ceremonial here) and called it the gospel. Paul in these letters spells out the true difference between that and the Gospel of Christ. It is exactly what the issue is about.

As far as I can tell you are doing the same thing.

 

[northwye]

" I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10: 10

"52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. 53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. 54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? 55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. 56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village." Luke 9: 52-56

James and John were following Old Covenant Israel in thnking Christ would, for example, like Elijah did in I Kings 18: 38 and in II Kings 1: 10, call fire down from heaven and burn up those Samaritans who rejected him. But Jesus Christ rebuked them, saying they did not know what kind of spirit they were of. Christ came to bring spiritual life, but also physical life and not death. For Old Covenant Israel killing your spiritual enemies was acceptable and good, but Christ here is saying that in New Covenant Israel we do not destroy men's lives but try to save them. Christ came to bring us life not death.

Physical Old Covenant Israel is no longer the light of the world, or the light to the nations, because Christ is not in it.

Those who are born again in Christ have Christ in them (Galatians 4: 19, Philippians 2: 5) become the light to the nations, because the light of Christ shines from them.

"My little children, over whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you," Galatians 4: 19

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus." Philippians 2: 5

"Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Colossians 1: 26-27

Matthew 5: 14-16 says "Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

Paul in Ephesians 5: 8 says "For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:" He tells us in I Thessalonians 5: 5 that "Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness."

"Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men." Matthew 5: 13

Savour is from moranthe, and moranthe is from moros; "to become insipid; figuratively, to make (passively, act) as a simpleton -- become fool, make foolish, lose savour." Many, the majority of those who claim to be Christians, have fulfilled Matthew 5: 13 and have become spiritually dumb, or spiritually dead. They cannot have an influence upon the morals of the society, being in a dumbed down or dead spiritual state, and so the morals of our society are rapidly dropping.

"And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God?
"It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened." Luke 13: 20-21

Over time the leaven - false doctrines and practices - grows until the whole kingdom of God is leavened.

But the kingdom of God that is gradually leavened by false doctrines is institutional Christianity - and God has a remnant who are not so leavened. "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." "These are they which follow the Lamb withersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile; for they are without fault before the throne of God." Revelation 4: 4-5

Guile means deception. In an age of deception the remnant is not deceptive.

Dispensationalists bring a strong focus on the issue of whether Old Covenant Israel remains now the chosen people of God. In that strong focus on Old Covenant Israel as being now a people of God, the dispensationalists are not in the spiritual life which Christ came to give us. Continually arguing with them can also bring Christians down to the state of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 4, who does not receive the things of the Spirit.

 

[Interplanner]

Good summary Northwye, and good advice at the end. I don't wish to argue but I do believe in taking apart mistaken arguments so they know they have been challenged.

 

[Totton Linnet]

You are saying the same things the Jews said that had Christ killed.

Just because he doesnt fulfill them the way that you personally want does not make them unfulfilled.

According to Jesus and the Apostles, they have ALL been fulfilled... if you want to be honest and actually believe them, then you have to approach interpreting things within that framework.

The Jews were expecting a King to sit on the physical throne of David and rule them... but we all know that to be false.

The promises God made to Israel has not been fulfilled

Nations have not beaten their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks....they are still studying war.

The plowshares and pruning hooks is a promise of unimaginable wealth and provision. Nor has Israel ever been the highest hill among the nations.

These promises are not for the church age, for we are to expect wars and rumours of wars, famine and distress of nations.

There is therefore yet an age to come.

 

[Interplanner]

Sometimes the NT says the OT if fulfilled if there is simply a reason for the thing to be fulfilled. There certainly is in Christ (for the unity of the nations) and Paul had so many friends from other countries. "In Christ there is no east or west."

But Acts 13's sermon concluding statement is that the promises to the fathers were fulfilled in the resurrection, because that proves there is justification from our sins.

 

[Totton Linnet]

It is the kingdom of heaven which is likened to leaven, not false practises and doctrines.

The church has filled the earth, at this very hour MILLIONS of Chinese are being converted to Christ. There are more Chinese Christians than American Christians. God is on the March in Africa and even India. Like the mustard seed which was the smallest seed it [the church, the kingdom of heaven] has spread throughout the earth.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Paul teaches extensively upon Israel the nation in Romans...but here is his summing up .

Lest ye be wise in your own conceits I wnt you to understand this mystery brethren. A hardening has come upon part of Israel UNTIL the full number of the Gentiles come in and so ALL Israel will be saved as it is written

The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will banish ungodliness from Jacob, and this will be My covenant with them when I take away their sins"

As regards the gospel they are enemies of God for your sake but as regards ELECTION they are BELOVED for the sake of their forefathers.

For the gifts and calling of God are IRREVOCABLE.

THAT is what I said...if God could cheat on Israel then He might cheat on us...it is unthinkable.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

It is the kingdom of heaven which is likened to leaven, not false practises and doctrines.

The church has filled the earth, at this very hour MILLIONS of Chinese are being converted to Christ. There are more Chinese Christians than American Christians. God is on the March in Africa and even India. Like the mustard seed which was the smallest seed it [the church, the kingdom of heaven] has spread throughout the earth.

The kingdom of heaven is not likened to leaven.

It is likened to a loaf in which three measures of meal were hidden.

The world is not the loaf, spiked with the kingdom. :nono:

 

[northwye]

"It is the kingdom of heaven which is likened to leaven, not false practises and doctrines."

Leaven (zume) is used metaphorically in Matthew 13: 33, Matthew 16: 6, Matthew 16: 12, Mark 8: 15, Luke 12: 1, Luke 13: 21, I Corinthians 5: 6, I Corinthians 5: 7, and I Corinthians 5:8. Leaven from zumoo is used metaphorically also in Galatians 5: 9.

To interpret leaven in these texts as meaning to increase Church membership would be closer to the literal meaning of leaven, to cause bread dough to ferment and rise, or get larger. Dispensationalists insist that scripture must be interpreted literally, so for dispensationalists leaven could mean to increase something, in many cases in the New Testament where leaven is used that would be Church membership. But that literalist interpretation would be false if these scriptures are understood.