The Cosmos
- Thread starter WeberHome
- Start date
There is earth and it's "heaven" .... now does that "heaven" include the entire cosmos? I think not.
The Bible was written for mankind. God lives outside of the time continuum ... difficult for us to get our brain wrapped around. Time ... for us earthlings ... was created by God ... God lives in eternity ... always has been and always will be, no "time" involed. Bottom line ..... time (for earthlings) is when God created it and that is what we relate to.
With that ... there is the book of Job .... and basically God admonishes him (Job)
Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:
2“Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.
4“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?
etc....
The Bible doesn't tell us everything we would like to know ... rather ... what the Lord wants us to know. The teaching of proper relationships with God and with one another ... that is ... about Love. The rest of it ... well ... those saved will have eternity to learn about it all ;o) and guess what ... we won't care about time.
WeberHome
New member
Re: The Cosmos
.
Non-human life for the Earth was created on a different scale than human life. Non-human life was created in swarms, while human life was created just one solo individual.
● Gen 2:7 . .The Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
That one human life has the distinction of being the only human life that God ever created directly from the dust of the ground. All other human life descends from that one human life, including women, because they were formed with material amputated from that first human life's body.
This means that any and all human life made from women are descendants of that first human life that God created from the dust of the ground; whether virgin conceived or naturally conceived makes no difference.
● Acts 17:26 . . He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth
The koiné Greek word for "nation" is ethnos (eth'-nos) which basically refers to races, which for brevity's sake I'll just label Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid, and Australoid. There's a variety of sub groupings within those major divisions.
Some Christians are adamantly, and sometimes even angrily, opposed to any and all forms of evolution. But if we don't allow for at least a modicum of somatic mutations and adaptations we'll be hard pressed to provide an adequate explanation for the variety of human life on Earth, including Pygmy, that descended from the one and only human life that God created directly from the dust of the ground.
_
.
Non-human life for the Earth was created on a different scale than human life. Non-human life was created in swarms, while human life was created just one solo individual.
● Gen 2:7 . .The Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
That one human life has the distinction of being the only human life that God ever created directly from the dust of the ground. All other human life descends from that one human life, including women, because they were formed with material amputated from that first human life's body.
This means that any and all human life made from women are descendants of that first human life that God created from the dust of the ground; whether virgin conceived or naturally conceived makes no difference.
● Acts 17:26 . . He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth
The koiné Greek word for "nation" is ethnos (eth'-nos) which basically refers to races, which for brevity's sake I'll just label Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid, and Australoid. There's a variety of sub groupings within those major divisions.
Some Christians are adamantly, and sometimes even angrily, opposed to any and all forms of evolution. But if we don't allow for at least a modicum of somatic mutations and adaptations we'll be hard pressed to provide an adequate explanation for the variety of human life on Earth, including Pygmy, that descended from the one and only human life that God created directly from the dust of the ground.
_
6days
New member
So... You seem to think that when God created water, that He had a problem with temperature? God does not tell us what the source of light was, nor the temperature.jamie said:
He does tell us that in 6days, He created the heavens and the Earth and everything in them. (Not a re-do)
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void"
(Genesis 1:1-2)
The earth was without form and void, but it was not created a waste.
"Who did not create it in vain, who formed it to be inhabited" (Isaiah 45:18)
"By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God" (Hebrews 11:3)
The word "framed" means to repair or to restore.
The earth was destroyed by Satan's rebellion.
Satan had said, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God." (Isaiah 14:13)
Satan failed and was restricted to the earth.
The earth was rebuilt and repopulated.
WeberHome
New member
Re: The Cosmos
.
● Gen 2:2-3 . . On the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.
That passage states that the creator stopped making things for the current cosmos after the sixth day wrapped; yet people are still under the impression that He creates new souls every time a baby is conceived in its mommy's womb. But the seventh day isn't bounded by an evening and a morning; viz: it has not yet ended; God has been on sabbatical ever since, i.e. God hasn't gone back to creating things for the current cosmos.
Adam's progeny-- you and I and all the others --are not direct creations; no; we're reproductions; viz: there's no need for mankind's creator to take a hand in producing baby souls, or any other kinds of souls for that matter because He created all life on earth as sustainable, transferable kinds of life. The blessing of fertility is a remarkable blessing because it enables living things to reproduce themselves sans divine micro management.
"My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them." (Ps 139:15)
The "depths of the earth" is a reference to Gen 2:7 talking about the beginning of mankind. We were all there in the making-- Adam's posterity isn't created directly form the dust of the ground; they are created from it indirectly, as Adam's reproductions-- pretty amazing when you think about it.
In the future; after the current cosmos is destroyed, God will once again roll up His sleeves, and go back to work creating things.
"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." (Isa 65:17)
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up . . . we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." (2Pet 3:10-13)
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev 21:1)
Q: What about 2Cor 5:17 and Gal 6:15 where it speaks of Christians as new creations?
A: Born-again Christians start out in this cosmos; but this cosmos is not where they belong, i.e. they're fish out of water, so to speak.
● Col 1:13 . . The Father has delivered us from the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son.
● Phil 3:20 . . Our citizenship is in heaven.
_
.
● Gen 2:2-3 . . On the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.
That passage states that the creator stopped making things for the current cosmos after the sixth day wrapped; yet people are still under the impression that He creates new souls every time a baby is conceived in its mommy's womb. But the seventh day isn't bounded by an evening and a morning; viz: it has not yet ended; God has been on sabbatical ever since, i.e. God hasn't gone back to creating things for the current cosmos.
Adam's progeny-- you and I and all the others --are not direct creations; no; we're reproductions; viz: there's no need for mankind's creator to take a hand in producing baby souls, or any other kinds of souls for that matter because He created all life on earth as sustainable, transferable kinds of life. The blessing of fertility is a remarkable blessing because it enables living things to reproduce themselves sans divine micro management.
"My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them." (Ps 139:15)
The "depths of the earth" is a reference to Gen 2:7 talking about the beginning of mankind. We were all there in the making-- Adam's posterity isn't created directly form the dust of the ground; they are created from it indirectly, as Adam's reproductions-- pretty amazing when you think about it.
In the future; after the current cosmos is destroyed, God will once again roll up His sleeves, and go back to work creating things.
"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." (Isa 65:17)
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up . . . we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." (2Pet 3:10-13)
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev 21:1)
Q: What about 2Cor 5:17 and Gal 6:15 where it speaks of Christians as new creations?
A: Born-again Christians start out in this cosmos; but this cosmos is not where they belong, i.e. they're fish out of water, so to speak.
● Col 1:13 . . The Father has delivered us from the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son.
● Phil 3:20 . . Our citizenship is in heaven.
_
6days
New member
Of course!God could have created in an instant, but instead he created formed and filled His creation over the course of six days.Jamie said:
That isn't what Gods Word tells us.Jamie said:
Again... You have beliefs that contradict Scripture and weaken or destroy the Gospel.Jamie said:
Suffering...thorns...death, entered the world because of first Adams sin. If suffering and death existed before first Adam, then the cross and Last Adam were not necessary.
6days
New member
Rested (past tense)... not resting.
That belief is inconsistent with the passage. As commentator Guy N. Woods says "Jehovah finished his labors at the end of the sixth day, and on the seventh rested. The narrative provides no basis for the assumption that the day he rested differed in any fashion from those which preceded it. It evidently was marked out and its length determined in the same manner as the others. If it was not a day of twenty-four hours, it sustains no resemblance to the sabbath which was given to the Israelites"
WeberHome
New member
Re: The Cosmos
.
Theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking spent a large percentage of his life figuring out how the cosmos works; but had to admit that he couldn't figure out the "why" of the cosmos; viz: why it exists at all instead of nothing at all.
I was once asked by a co-worker why I believed the Bible. I replied that the Bible takes a simple, uneducated welder like me and gives him the answers to questions for which the best and brightest have no scientific explanation.
I may not know everything there is to know about how the cosmos works, but through the science of faith rather than physics, I know whence the cosmos came and I know why it exists rather than nothing existing at all.
● Rev 4:11 . .Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are, and were, created.
This aging, retired old welder is one of the created things mentioned in that passage. I am insignificant in the grand scale of the cosmos with all of its life, matter, and energy; yet I exist per God's pleasure just the same as all the millions of wondrous galaxies floating around out there in the void.
Carl Sagan once remarked that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Well; personally, I consider the cosmos with all of its life, matter, and energy to be the most extraordinary evidence imaginable.
● Rom 1:19-20 . .What may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-- his eternal power and divine nature --have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
The cosmos has been pounding the pulpit for God since time immemorial.
● Ps 19:1-4 . .The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.
Back in 1980 there was a thirteen-part series on television called "COSMOS: A Personal Voyage" hosted by Carl Sagan.
I didn't watch the series at that time; and only recently viewed it on YouTube. It was my first experience with Mr. Sagan. I'd heard of him, but never actually listened to him speak.
Well, it turns out; I really like the man. Sagan was very personable; sort of like Mr. Rogers: he was sincere, charming, soft-spoken, and educational; coupled with a talent for explaining difficult concepts on a layman's level. Sagan was a perfect front man for the scientific community.
But he was an atheist. Sagan stood against beliefs that the cosmos-- its life, matter, and energy --is the result of intelligent design.
Well; if there really is a heaven and a hell, then of course Sagan is definitely in the wrong place; and my heart goes out to him as I can only imagine the terrible, crushing disappointment that poor man must be feeling. His life's work was for naught: just a hobby-- an interesting way to pass the time until his time was up.
_
.
Theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking spent a large percentage of his life figuring out how the cosmos works; but had to admit that he couldn't figure out the "why" of the cosmos; viz: why it exists at all instead of nothing at all.
I was once asked by a co-worker why I believed the Bible. I replied that the Bible takes a simple, uneducated welder like me and gives him the answers to questions for which the best and brightest have no scientific explanation.
I may not know everything there is to know about how the cosmos works, but through the science of faith rather than physics, I know whence the cosmos came and I know why it exists rather than nothing existing at all.
● Rev 4:11 . .Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are, and were, created.
This aging, retired old welder is one of the created things mentioned in that passage. I am insignificant in the grand scale of the cosmos with all of its life, matter, and energy; yet I exist per God's pleasure just the same as all the millions of wondrous galaxies floating around out there in the void.
Carl Sagan once remarked that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Well; personally, I consider the cosmos with all of its life, matter, and energy to be the most extraordinary evidence imaginable.
● Rom 1:19-20 . .What may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-- his eternal power and divine nature --have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
The cosmos has been pounding the pulpit for God since time immemorial.
● Ps 19:1-4 . .The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.
Back in 1980 there was a thirteen-part series on television called "COSMOS: A Personal Voyage" hosted by Carl Sagan.
I didn't watch the series at that time; and only recently viewed it on YouTube. It was my first experience with Mr. Sagan. I'd heard of him, but never actually listened to him speak.
Well, it turns out; I really like the man. Sagan was very personable; sort of like Mr. Rogers: he was sincere, charming, soft-spoken, and educational; coupled with a talent for explaining difficult concepts on a layman's level. Sagan was a perfect front man for the scientific community.
But he was an atheist. Sagan stood against beliefs that the cosmos-- its life, matter, and energy --is the result of intelligent design.
Well; if there really is a heaven and a hell, then of course Sagan is definitely in the wrong place; and my heart goes out to him as I can only imagine the terrible, crushing disappointment that poor man must be feeling. His life's work was for naught: just a hobby-- an interesting way to pass the time until his time was up.
_
genuineoriginal
New member
There was darkness before there was a sun.
There was also light before there was a sun.
And there was life on earth before it became flooded with water.
How do you account for Neanderthals?
How do you account for Satan's throne?
Are we talking Genesis 1:2? Or Genesis 7?
Neandertals are just ancient humans.
Kgov.com/neandertal
Huh?
genuineoriginal
New member
Yes, there was life on earth between creation and Noah's flood.
Science says Neanderthals are humans.
| The Contribution of Neanderthals to Phenotypic Variation in Modern Humans Interbreeding between Neanderthals and early modern humans has been shown to have contributed about 2% Neanderthal DNA to the genomes of present-day non-Africans. |
Ancient Pergamon
The Great Altar of Pergamon is considered to be one of the greatest surviving monuments from antiquity. Now located in the Pergamon Museum in Berlin, Germany, the altar is thought by many scholars to be the "throne of Satan," referred to by the prophet John in the Book of Revelations. (Revelation 2:12-13) |
Interbreeding was not possible. Eve was the mother of all living. (Genesis 3:20)
Neandertals are DESCENDANTS of Eve, silly.
WeberHome
New member
Re: The Cosmos
.
The theological idea of creation ex nihilo (out of nothing) is looking better all the time as inflation theories increasingly suggest the universe emerged from no tangible source. And although theorists energetically fantasize an endless parade of explanations for the origin of the universe, they have been doing so within the context of the known laws of physics; the meanwhile having no clue about the origin of those physical laws. In other words: they cannot explain where those laws came from in the first place-- nor can they explain why the known laws control matter and energy the way they do rather than some other way.
When people reach what is commonly called the age of reasoning; some of their very first questions are: Why am I here? Where did I come from? What is the meaning of life, and is there a purpose for mine? Am I here by chance?
I think it's very normal (or at least very common) for people to seek a justification for their existence; and without it, they can only conclude that the human experience is futile; which can be roughly defined as serving no useful purpose; for example:
Nobel Prize winner, author of several best-selling books, and recipient of at least a dozen honorary degrees, physicist Steven Weinberg (who views religion as an enemy of science), in his book "The First Three Minutes" wrote: The more the universe seems comprehensible, the more it seems pointless. But if there is no solace in the fruits of our research, there is at least some consolation in the research itself . . . the effort to understand the universe is one of the very few things that lifts human life a little above the level of a farce and gives it some of the grace of tragedy.
In Mr. Weinberg's opinion, the human experience scarce escapes the categories of farce and tragedy; its quest for knowledge seems the only thing that gives humanity any justification to exist at all. The universe? It's just a meaningless void decorated with fascinating objects --a carnival side show of cosmic curiosities, so to speak.
Wouldn't it be sad if we only lived and died like insects and fungi? I mean, what would be the point of it all? They say a mind is a terrible thing to waste. What real advantage is it to have something so useful as a human mind if it's only going to die and stop working after many years of learning and experience? And what real advantage is it for the mind of the present to make the world a better place for the next generation of minds if the mind of the present doesn't live to see it? That's really no more significant an existence than that of the individuals in a bee hive or a termite colony.
I think people find comfort in perceiving themselves part of a grand scheme instead of walking across the stage of their all-too-brief life as an insignificant speck in a pointless cosmos. Belief that there's someone somewhere above and beyond themselves gives people's existence value, meaning, and purpose which, in my opinion, is at least one of the reasons why supreme beings are so popular.
Galileo felt that science and religion are allies rather than enemies-- two different languages telling the same story; a story of symmetry and balance: heaven and hell, positive and negative, weak and strong, right and left, up and down, night and day, hot and cold, God and Satan. Science and religion are not at odds; no, in reality, science is just simply too young to understand.
Dr. Robert Jastow, founder of the Goddard Institute for space studies at NASA, in his book "God And The Astronomers" says: "Strange developments are going on in astronomy. One of these is the discovery that the universe had a beginning. And that means there has to be a beginner. The scientist has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak, and as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
Agnostics and atheists claim there is no empirical evidence supporting the existence of a supreme being. But they are foolishly invalidating perfectly good evidence all around them and within easy reach. There exists more evidence in the world of nature and in the sky to prove the reality of a supreme being than there does to prove otherwise.
_
.
The theological idea of creation ex nihilo (out of nothing) is looking better all the time as inflation theories increasingly suggest the universe emerged from no tangible source. And although theorists energetically fantasize an endless parade of explanations for the origin of the universe, they have been doing so within the context of the known laws of physics; the meanwhile having no clue about the origin of those physical laws. In other words: they cannot explain where those laws came from in the first place-- nor can they explain why the known laws control matter and energy the way they do rather than some other way.
When people reach what is commonly called the age of reasoning; some of their very first questions are: Why am I here? Where did I come from? What is the meaning of life, and is there a purpose for mine? Am I here by chance?
I think it's very normal (or at least very common) for people to seek a justification for their existence; and without it, they can only conclude that the human experience is futile; which can be roughly defined as serving no useful purpose; for example:
Nobel Prize winner, author of several best-selling books, and recipient of at least a dozen honorary degrees, physicist Steven Weinberg (who views religion as an enemy of science), in his book "The First Three Minutes" wrote: The more the universe seems comprehensible, the more it seems pointless. But if there is no solace in the fruits of our research, there is at least some consolation in the research itself . . . the effort to understand the universe is one of the very few things that lifts human life a little above the level of a farce and gives it some of the grace of tragedy.
In Mr. Weinberg's opinion, the human experience scarce escapes the categories of farce and tragedy; its quest for knowledge seems the only thing that gives humanity any justification to exist at all. The universe? It's just a meaningless void decorated with fascinating objects --a carnival side show of cosmic curiosities, so to speak.
Wouldn't it be sad if we only lived and died like insects and fungi? I mean, what would be the point of it all? They say a mind is a terrible thing to waste. What real advantage is it to have something so useful as a human mind if it's only going to die and stop working after many years of learning and experience? And what real advantage is it for the mind of the present to make the world a better place for the next generation of minds if the mind of the present doesn't live to see it? That's really no more significant an existence than that of the individuals in a bee hive or a termite colony.
I think people find comfort in perceiving themselves part of a grand scheme instead of walking across the stage of their all-too-brief life as an insignificant speck in a pointless cosmos. Belief that there's someone somewhere above and beyond themselves gives people's existence value, meaning, and purpose which, in my opinion, is at least one of the reasons why supreme beings are so popular.
Galileo felt that science and religion are allies rather than enemies-- two different languages telling the same story; a story of symmetry and balance: heaven and hell, positive and negative, weak and strong, right and left, up and down, night and day, hot and cold, God and Satan. Science and religion are not at odds; no, in reality, science is just simply too young to understand.
Dr. Robert Jastow, founder of the Goddard Institute for space studies at NASA, in his book "God And The Astronomers" says: "Strange developments are going on in astronomy. One of these is the discovery that the universe had a beginning. And that means there has to be a beginner. The scientist has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak, and as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
Agnostics and atheists claim there is no empirical evidence supporting the existence of a supreme being. But they are foolishly invalidating perfectly good evidence all around them and within easy reach. There exists more evidence in the world of nature and in the sky to prove the reality of a supreme being than there does to prove otherwise.
_
genuineoriginal
New member
Science calls it interbreeding, but if Neanderthals are humans then there is just breeding.
Neanderthals were not homo sapiens.