ECT The core of the argument between Christians and MAD.

[IMJerusha]

But we are not allowed to reveal this or say so, because we are historical Protestants, that somehow are involved with Constantine.

Sheesh . . .

Now you're twisting my words. I have never declared that we can not reveal things because of affiliation with Constantine. God tells us we should (Ezekiel 3) but according to Paul in 1 Corinthians 13, if we do this without love, it's useless. You are surely not going to deny, btw, Constantine's pagan influences and political bent on the faith.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Another lie.

We follow Paul AS HE FOLLOWS CHRIST.

In almost everything Paul taught, Madists do not follow what he said.

Madists claim membership of a body which has no spiritual members because they reject the gifts to the body of 1 Cor.ch 12.

in actuality MADists follow the old flesh of Paul, which is Saul.

LA

 

[Nang]

The words of Paul, according to Paul, are the words of Yeshua.

Amen. All the words of Paul were inspired by God.

Do we not accept the words of Paul as God's Word?

Absolutely!

But that is not the argument against MADists who claim the words of Paul, specifically I Corinthians 15:1-4 is the only true Gospel, and anything else cannot be considered that Gospel. They claim that Peter taught the Jews a different gospel, and that is totally wrong.

Peter proclaimed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, just like Paul did, but MADists deny this is so.

That is not to say that people don't twist Paul's or any of God's Word to their destruction.

Again, my argument is not against Paul at all. Just against those who throw out the entire bible because it was written prior to Paul; including the 4 Gospel Books and teachings of Jesus Christ.

 

[Right Divider]

Paul never instructed anyone to "follow" him.

I don't think that you've ever even READ one of Paul's epistles.

1Co 4:16 KJV Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.​

 

[Nang]

I don't think it's plausible to deny what is so obviously documented in Scripture.

Agreed.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The words of Paul, according to Paul, are the words of Yeshua. Do we not accept the words of Paul as God's Word? That is not to say that people don't twist Paul's or any of God's Word to their destruction.

Madists claim Pauls gospel was not revealed to anyone until it was revealed to Paul.

Madists claim that those who believe the gospel given to Peter is not only another gospel, but that to believe it, is to reject Pauls gospel and therefore be unsaved.

It is not hard to work out what Mad teaches.

MAD says the body of Christ is not the Bride of Christ and that people like myself could not be in the Bride because that is not the offer on the table today.

LA

 

[Nang]

I don't think that you've ever even READ one of Paul's epistles.

1Co 4:16 KJV Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.​

You (intentionally?) left off this part:

" . . faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church."

Paul's exhortation was to follow Christ, like he was in Christ, and as he so taught in every church . . . even in Galatia where dispersed Jews worshiped Christ.

Not for believers to "follow Paul" over and above what Christ taught the Jews about the Kingdom at hand.

Shame on you for implying so . . .

 

[Nang]

Madists claim Pauls gospel was not revealed to anyone until it was revealed to Paul.

Yes. This is what is Gnostic about their teachings. They claim hidden/mysterious/secret knowledge, that was only made known to a few, by the preaching of Paul, that excludes all other teachings of the bible.

To argue against this gnosticism, is not argument against Paul . . . but argument against those who say any other part of Holy Scripture cannot be the one and True Gospel of Jesus Christ as was Paul's inspired message.

 

[IMJerusha]

There was a mystery given to Paul that YOU deny.

Rom 16:25-26 KJV Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, (26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
​

You simply will not listen to the Lord Jesus Christ as He speaks through Paul.

Eph 3:1-12 KJV For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, (2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: (3) How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, (4) Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) (5) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; (6) That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: (7) Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. (8) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; (9) And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: (10) To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, (11) According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: (12) In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
​

It is you that rejects the truth. Paul, over and over again, explains the uniqueness of the message given to him by the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul was given a REVELATION what was HID IN GOD.

You guys keep saying that it was ALWAYS KNOWN, and yet Paul said that it KEPT SECRET SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN.

I'm going to go ahead and stick with GOD'S MESSENGER, PAUL, on this one. I think that he knows a bit more than you.

I assure you, Yeshua's life after His death, His appearance to Paul as Saul, His declaration of Who He is and what His mission was, Paul's blinding and healing would have been a pure mystery revealed to Paul. :chuckle: One can put all kinds of interpretations on words. What was kept secret since the world began was the reality of Yeshua's purpose as opposed to the age old interpretation of Scripture....Yeshua the mighty warrior who was going to save Israel by destroying all of its enemies. There is no way that Paul would put forth teaching opposed to Yeshua or divide the Body of Yeshua when he was so adamant about its unification. I don't think you have a grip on who and what Paul actually was. Please don't put forth that you are following Paul when what you are really following is a doctrine based on a specific interpretation of Paul's words and it's an interpretation that doesn't hold up to all of Scripture unless one casts a divide on the Body. It's a divide that Yeshua doesn't uphold.

 

[Nang]

The Truth of God (Gospel) is a "mystery" to all unbelievers, unless and until they are regenerated and converted by God through the quickening and enlightenment of the Holy Spirit to the Gospel Truth.

The Gospel remained a mystery to Paul until he got knocked off his horse . . .

The only souls who are not revealed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, prove to be reprobates.

 

[Right Divider]

You (intentionally?) left off this part:

" . . faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church."

Paul's exhortation was to follow Christ, like he was in Christ, and as he so taught in every church . . . even in Galatia where dispersed Jews worshiped Christ.

Not for believers to "follow Paul" over and above what Christ taught the Jews about the Kingdom at hand.

Shame on you for implying so . . .

You seem to be completely happy in your immense ignorance, so I will leave you there.

Once AGAIN, I said that Paul said to follow him AS HE FOLLOWS CHRIST.

1Co 11:1 KJV Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
​

To which the ignorant demon Nang says: 'Paul never instructed anyone to "follow" him.'

You are a scripture twister and and quote twister. An evil demon from hell.

Paul did NOT follow Christ as did the twelve who knew HIM ON EARTH, IN THE FLESH as an Israelite (Romans 15:8). Paul ONLY knew the Lord Jesus Christ from HIS RISEN AND GLORIFIED PLACE IN HEAVEN.

This why Paul never even ONCE calls the Lord Jesus Christ the LAMB OF GOD or OUR HIGH PRIEST or the SHEPHERD of the FLOCK.

Shame on you for YOUR WILLFUL IGNORANCE.

 

[IMJerusha]

Madists claim Pauls gospel was not revealed to anyone until it was revealed to Paul.

Madists claim that those who believe the gospel given to Peter is not only another gospel, but that to believe it, is to reject Pauls gospel and therefore be unsaved.

It is not hard to work out what Mad teaches.

MAD says the body of Christ is not the Bride of Christ and that people like myself could not be in the Bride because that is not the offer on the table today.

LA

Stop speaking of MAD as though it is a denomination all its own. It's not. It is a doctrine that has permeated all denominations much like OSAS or KJVO or the Doctrine of the Elect, Theistic Evolution, etc.

 

[Nang]

You seem to be completely happy in your immense ignorance, so I will leave you there.

Once AGAIN, I said that Paul said to follow him AS HE FOLLOWS CHRIST.

1Co 11:1 KJV Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
​

To which the ignorant demon Nang says: 'Paul never instructed anyone to "follow" him.'

You are a scripture twister and and quote twister. An evil demon from hell.

Paul did NOT follow Christ as did the twelve who knew HIM ON EARTH, IN THE FLESH as an Israelite (Romans 15:8). Paul ONLY knew the Lord Jesus Christ from HIS RISEN AND GLORIFIED PLACE IN HEAVEN.

This why Paul never even ONCE calls the Lord Jesus Christ the LAMB OF GOD or OUR HIGH PRIEST or the SHEPHERD of the FLOCK.

Shame on you for YOUR WILLFUL IGNORANCE.

You sound and respond in the same hateful spirit of your heretical teachers and leaders . . .

The types and symbology of the Messiah were better known to the Jews; than the Gentiles. Does not mean Paul discredited these types, as given by God, to all.

And decision to not use Jewish types, when preaching to Gentiles, does not in any way discredit, disavow, or change the Gospel message that Jesus Christ died on the cross, as the Lamb of God, for the sins of all men from all the nations, not just Jews.

 

[IMJerusha]

You seem to be completely happy in your immense ignorance, so I will leave you there.

Adherence with and acceptance of Scripture is not ignorance. We all have to test the spirits RD. When a doctrine doesn't add up with all of Scripture, one must raise a red flag, not stick ones head in the ground.

 

[Nang]

Stop speaking of MAD as though it is a denomination all its own. It's not. It is a doctrine that has permeated all denominations much like OSAS or KJVO or the Doctrine of the Elect, Theistic Evolution, etc.

It is not a formal denomination, because they do not believe in church worship or sacraments.

Rather, it is a heresy of lawlessness that has infiltrated visible church bodies, and many denominations, with deliberate and vile motives to turn believers away from the One True biblical Gospel of Jesus Christ.

That is the reason a few of us are revealing them for what they are, and for presenting opposition to their agenda and tactics.

You will either hear our warnings, or you will not.

Only Sovereign God will give you ears to hear this trumpet sound!

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Stop speaking of MAD as though it is a denomination all its own. It's not.

It is on this board, and I have the right of reply to all of their hateful and evil things said of those who follow Christ and the example set by the early church.

(Not that I speak for my sake)

It is a doctrine that has permeated all denominations much like OSAS or KJVO or the Doctrine of the Elect, Theistic Evolution, etc.

This boards version of following Paul is not.

None I have encountered elsewhere speak such evil of the saints as these here do, and the board admin does not ban them for doing it.

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

MADists teach this is only applicable to the Jews and not to the body of Christ, which they claim to be members of.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You seem to be completely happy in your immense ignorance, so I will leave you there.

Once AGAIN, I said that Paul said to follow him AS HE FOLLOWS CHRIST.

1Co 11:1 KJV Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
​

To which the ignorant demon Nang says: 'Paul never instructed anyone to "follow" him.

You are a scripture twister and and quote twister. An evil demon from hell.

Paul did NOT follow Christ as did the twelve who knew HIM ON EARTH, IN THE FLESH as an Israelite (Romans 15:8). Paul ONLY knew the Lord Jesus Christ from HIS RISEN AND GLORIFIED PLACE IN HEAVEN.

This why Paul never even ONCE calls the Lord Jesus Christ the LAMB OF GOD or OUR HIGH PRIEST or the SHEPHERD of the FLOCK.

Shame on you for YOUR WILLFUL IGNORANCE.

Did it ever occur to you that God put in His word many traps and ditches for men to fall into.

The 120 of Acts chapter 2 all knew the resurrected Christ even closer than did Paul at the first.

Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Seems like they were the first members of the Body of Christ, does it not?

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

I am sure Paul and all the Apostles (including Barnabas) would have had a hand in the writing of the book of Hebrews somewhere and this verse stands out--

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

and--

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

LA

 

[IMJerusha]

It is not a formal denomination, because they do not believe in church worship or sacraments.

Just stop. There are all sorts of MAD doctrine believing congregations. If you propagate lies in Yeshua's name, what will that accomplish for Him or for the faith...or for you?

You will either hear our warnings, or you will not.

Taking credit for the Ruach now?

Only Sovereign God will give you ears to hear this trumpet sound!

Or clanging cymbal...resounding gong...

 

[journey]

It is not a formal denomination, because they do not believe in church worship or sacraments.

Rather, it is a heresy of lawlessness that has infiltrated visible church bodies, and many denominations, with deliberate and vile motives to turn believers away from the One True biblical Gospel of Jesus Christ.

That is the reason a few of us are revealing them for what they are, and for presenting opposition to their agenda and tactics.

You will either hear our warnings, or you will not.

Only Sovereign God will give you ears to hear this trumpet sound!

You distort things grossly and don't tell the truth. Many things DID change at the Cross, and Jesus Christ revealed what those changes were to the Apostle Paul. It was a MYSTERY not known to men of other ages or to the twelve. It became the foundation for the Gospel of the Grace of God, and Paul taught the twelve because it was also a MYSTERY to them. The Church which is the Body of Christ is part of that glorious MYSTERY. In short, Jesus Christ willingly went to the Cross for many BIG reasons.

 

[IMJerusha]

It is on this board, and I have the right of reply to all of their hateful and evil things said of those who follow Christ and the example set by the early church.

No one can contend for the faith in a manner outside of the Will of God.
'Nuff said.