turbosixx
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If it was at hand 2,000 years ago, where do you believe it is now?
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ECT The content of faith, required to be believed, in Mt.-John, prior to the dbr
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If it was at hand 2,000 years ago, where do you believe it is now?
turbosixx
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Isn't that body on earth now as well? Are you part of the body now?
Romans 11:25.
Interplanner
Well-known member
That verse is not an answer to that question. Why did Paul make this declaration? To restate a conclusion that there was NO automatic belief by Israel. God responds to faith, not ethnos. When v26 starts, the Greek expression looks back at v25 and means that while the ethnos Israel is partially hardened, all of God's Israel will be saved because saved in Romans is justification from sins (the debt of sin is 'taken away' v27), not a restored Judaic kingdom. And he introduced another "us" in 9:6 and 24.
So it is at hand, because God reigns (in the sense intended here) through the preaching. That is why the fact of the Gospel's mission reaching so many Gentiles is referred to as an imperial order in 16:26 'the command.' That was borrowed from Roman admin terminology to upstage Rome; to show to Rome that the Gospel was a unifying bond much deeper than what Rome could provide. The kingdom is here but is not the kind that other kingdoms.
Interplanner
Well-known member
(duplicated)
You're just not getting it.
Consider the ISRAELITE Prophet, Daniel.
In his day, Israel's GOD GIVEN PHYSICAL Kingdom was no longer.
He was in captivity with his nation.
Nevertheless, the rule of God's PHYSICAL Kingdom STILL applied, but it was now just spiritual - in Daniel's heart.
AT THE SAME TIME, Daniel was promised THEIR LITERAL PHYSICAL GOD GIVEN Kingdom would one day be restored, Dan. 2:44.
In Mark 1: 15-16 said LITERAL PHYSICAL Kingdom's King begins His ministry to them with the words " The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of heaven is at hand; repent ye and believe the gospel."
What gospel? That Christ; Who has just BEGUN His ministry unto that nation, died for our sins?
No. That is ridiculous - He has just BEGUN His ministry unto that nation.
What gospel then?
That "the time is fulfilled and the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
No Cross. None. Zip. Nada in that gospel. Just believe "I am its King; it is at hand - repent Israel - turn BACK to the God of your fathers!"
John 1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
John 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
That last passage has yet to happen.
Why?
Romans 11:25-29.
But people insist there is one "one size fits all" gospel.
More of your gobble-dee-gook based on your ever having your nose buried in books "about" rather than in THE Book itself.
Ignore my posts (or not) you have nothing to say to me.
turbosixx
New member
What were they blinded by? Jesus defeating their enemies? Jesus sitting on the throne in Jerusalem? Where can we see Jesus setting up his physical kingdom as prophesied in the OT and them rejecting it?
turbosixx
New member
I’m trying but it’s hard with paradigms in place.
Agreed, but only with the remnant.
Yes, but not physical. In the days of the 4th kingdom which everyone agrees is the Roman Empire. Jesus appeared in the days of the Roman Empire and proclaiming the kingdom was at hand just as Daniel had prophesied.
I see him preparing them for a spiritual kingdom. He tells them to repent and turn back to God. After his DBR, isn’t that the same message?
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.
These people received the Holy Spirit.
16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
I'm going to have to think on this one.
turbosixx
New member
It's hard to understand the depth of what one believes over a fourm. I appreciate your time.
turbosixx
New member
When do you understand this spiritual kingdom to have been established?
Do you even read the Bible? How can you possible ask this?
Romans 11
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
turbosixx
New member
Your going to have to tell me what you're reading into this because I don't see anything about a kingdom.
An observation...
YOU are reading INTO his words that he was asserting a kingdom. He was citing an evidence of its delay - the very topic we have been going back and forth with you about.
Consider that you have just pulled a GT, once more.
She makes a commment or asks a question only to wonder what a reply to her comment or question has to do with the very thing she posted about as if she has already forgotten what she posted about.
You do that all the time.
This continues to lead me to believe neither you nor her are up to no good, as some assert.
Rather, that you both need to slow down and reread your own posts previous to another's reply to them.
Exactamundo, D, as its the "create a moving target technique," leading to rabbit trails, dodge ball, do the hokey pokey and spin all around, as both of them counter with questions that are quite irrelevant, having NADA to do with the argument being presented/topic at hand. Roman Catholics perfected this technique, in hopes others will forget what the debate was in the first place.
turbosixx
New member
Thanks for the observation and I'm know you're right to some degree.
Here are my problems. First, using the Kings English because it better suits one's views is not providing proof. The modern english versions do a better job.
11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. NASB
What the verse says agrees with the modern version. Paul surly doesn't say they didn't fall then turn around and say they did fall. Also, those are two different Greek words used with two different meanings.
Second, you can't take one verse out of context and use that as proof. The context doesn't support the idea of a delay.
5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
11..... salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.
14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.
Paul is talking about the present not something in the future.
Translated: The LORD God is a bumbling idiot, as even though He created the universe, warms the heart of a mother, from the smile of her "little one, raises the dead...............he just could not seem to be able to provide his is(not was) given by inspiration scripture to man, in English,although he did in Greek, Armaic, Hebrew..............), and he is beholden to man, to "hep" him out, to translate His masterpiece. It's called humanism.
Thanks for checkin' in, as another bible corrector, in contrast to bible believer, is exposed/identified/marked/outed.
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turbosixx
New member
Is that the best you can do to prove me wrong. Brilliant!!
Nonsense. I use the KJB because it has remained the same ever since its overall manner of expressing a thing basically became no longer the language of the common man.
Meaning, it requires I rise to its challenge, not bring the Scripture down to today's poorer common English of most.
But there you go again. Proving the point I have been making - you read into another's words, conclude your reading sound, and run with it as being sound.
I greatly enjoy that I am forced to get in there and seek out passages that shed light on what the KJB's use of a word in one passage means in light of other passages where the same ENGLISH word was used.
The modern Bibles spoonfeed one away from that.
Please...
You and your reading into another's words...
Right there is what you have been doing to the passages - reading INTO them...