turbosixx
New member
Ok, I'll play your game. Judas did preach the same thing as the 12. Show me where the 12 preached, "1 Cor. 15:1-4", prior to it actually taking place or where Judas preached something different than the 12.
ECT The content of faith, required to be believed, in Mt.-John, prior to the dbr
- Thread starter john w
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Ok, I'll play your game. Judas did preach the same thing as the 12. Show me where the 12 preached, "1 Cor. 15:1-4", prior to it actually taking place or where Judas preached something different than the 12.
I sometimes have to play games, with tikes, such as yourself. Now, pull up your Bunny shirt......Hold on....
"Judas did preach the same thing as the 12."-you
Did Judas preached the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV? No, per....?:
"Show me where the 12 preached, "1 Cor. 15:1-4", prior to it actually taking place"-you
They did not. That has been my point, on TOL, for years. Pay attention. The good news/gospel of the kingdom is not equivalent to the good news/gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV. "Gospel" merely means "good news."The content of faith did change. The content of faith, required to be believed, in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr, had NADA to do with the death, burial, resurrection, the foundation of the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.
Hence, the title of this thread.
I know that's quite deep, little Joe, but my brilliance hopefully will sink in with you. Take a deep breath.
turbosixx
New member
This is a trick question. True, none of the 12 preached 1 Cor. 15:1-4 because it hadn't happened yet but they were looking forward to it. The 12 did preach it after the fact as seen in Acts 2.
If the kingdom (at hand) the 12 were preaching wasn't looking forward to Christ's church, then why was Paul still preaching the kingdom till his end?
Acts 20:25 "And now, behold, I know that all of you, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, will no longer see my face....28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
Acts 28:30 And he stayed two full years in his own rented quarters and was welcoming all who came to him, 31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness, unhindered.
Acts 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
There, both Paul and Barnabas are referred to as "apostles."
Just a sample of BODY Apostles NOT of the Twelve...
1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 2:1 For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in unto you, that it was not in vain:
1 Thessalonians 2:4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
1 Thessalonians 2:6 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.
There, both Paul and Barnabas are referred to as "apostles."
Just a sample of BODY Apostles NOT of the Twelve...
1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 2:1 For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in unto you, that it was not in vain:
1 Thessalonians 2:4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
1 Thessalonians 2:6 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.
Thanks for agreeing with one of the points of the thread-The good news/gospel of the kingdom is not equivalent to the good news/gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV. "Gospel" merely means "good news."The content of faith did change. The content of faith, required to be believed, in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr, had NADA to do with the death, burial, resurrection, the foundation of the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.
"but they were looking forward to it"-you
Made up-standard response that you read on other sights. The dbr was hid from the 12. The content of faith to be believed in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr,had NADA to do with the death, burial, resurrection, the foundation of the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, and was as I laid it out, brilliantly, and humbly.
Now-take your seat.
turbosixx
New member
Let me see if I understand you correctly. You believe that Jesus knowing he was building his church by his DBR and that this plan has been in place before the foundation of the world. Jesus knowing this didn’t send his apostles out to prepare for his church? That he sent them out to prepare for something that 2,000 years later hasn’t happened?
Please point out where I might be misunderstanding you.
turbosixx
New member
Was Paul preaching the kingdom and the gospel at the same time? Do the listeners have a choice of waiting for the kingdom or joining the church?
Acts 28:23 When they had set a day for Paul, they came to him at his lodging in large numbers; and he was explaining to them by solemnly testifying about the kingdom of God and trying to persuade them concerning Jesus, from both the Law of Moses and from the Prophets, from morning until evening.
The second part/s of the gospel message was no good without the first part/s.
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Early Modern English often follows the at times reverse order of things it is translating.
That passage, as with many descriptions not only of Paul's but of the Lord's utterances in Matt. - John, as well as in Paul's writings, has this element in it.
It speaks of what Paul was saying and doing in the reverse order of what he was doing said things in.
Actually, he was proving Christ from the Law and the Prophets, followed by that aspect of the kingdom of God that he was raised up to preach, in light of Israel's rejection of THEIR "salvation of God."
Acts 28 is a third, and final summary of Acts 13.
The second one being...
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. 18:5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ. 18:6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.
You see all that in verse 6?
That is "straight street" (to the point) Romans 9:19's scope and context - "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?"
Anywhere one reads words and or actions attributed to Paul by Luke in Acts (the writer of Acts) one must pause to take all said words throughout Acts as one, and this, in light of Paul's words in his own writings about it all.
Note what little Luke reports along a similar line as to what all Paul only appears to have preached in Acts 17, in contrast to, and thus, in the much needed reliance on, all that Paul himself asserts in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, he had actually shared with those in Acts 17.
Here is another - Did Paul preach Acts 3's message?
Again - not according to him in Romans 9-11 11; nor according to Peter, for that matter, in 2 Peter 3.
Where Peter had preached a promised CONDITIONAL return of the Lord to Israel in Acts 3, Paul later asserts a TEMPORARY delay of the Lord's wrath (on God's part in His LONGSUFFERING) of said return and WHY, in Romans 9-11.
Peter even relates in 2 Peter 3 of their having learned from Paul, of said delay on God's part in His LONGSUFFERING.
turbosixx
New member
I don’t understand what you’re saying. Are you saying that to convince these Jews that Jesus was the Christ, Paul explained to them the kingdom Jesus said was at hand but didn’t establish? Were the Jews right in killing Jesus because he didn’t established the kingdom he said was upon them? Matt. 12:28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Jesus continued to preach the kingdom after his declaration of building his church. Why would he do that if he didn’t intend on establishing it but the church instead?
Jesus said it would be taken from the Jews and given to another nation, Matt. 21:43. If it’s the future kingdom I hear about how can that be? Sounds more like what Paul was talking about in Acts 13:46.
Danoh is an Acts 28er
God's Truth
New member
The whole Bible is about believing and obeying God.
Paul did not teach that we no longer have to obey but only believe.
Jesus dying for our sins are about dying for sins we repent of doing.
Jesus preached that he would die for us.
John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
John 10:11
"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
Acts 8:32
This is the passage of Scripture the eunuch was reading: "He was led like a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
Paul preached Jesus dying for our sins.
1 Corinthians 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
Peter preached Jesus dying for our sins.
1 Peter 1:19
but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.
John preached Jesus dying for our sins.
1 John 3:5
But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.
Paul did not teach that we no longer have to obey but only believe.
Jesus dying for our sins are about dying for sins we repent of doing.
Jesus preached that he would die for us.
John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
John 10:11
"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
Acts 8:32
This is the passage of Scripture the eunuch was reading: "He was led like a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
Paul preached Jesus dying for our sins.
1 Corinthians 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
Peter preached Jesus dying for our sins.
1 Peter 1:19
but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.
John preached Jesus dying for our sins.
1 John 3:5
But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.
Paul was not greater than the apostles before him--
2Co 11:5 For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
but Paul was not one of the chiefest Apostles.
LA
2Co 11:5 For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
but Paul was not one of the chiefest Apostles.
LA
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
It's not that I want them to be different, they just are.
Acts 3 speaks of a future blotting out of sins, so the remission of Acts 2 is not the same as forgiveness of sins in Acts 13, and the atonement of Romans 6.
Is it possible that you really want them to be the same? Have you asked yourself why?
God's Truth
New member
Wow, you are arguing about words that do not matter for there is no difference in blotting out sins and forgiving sins and the atonement of sins and the remission of sins!
Sins are gone and forgiven through Jesus' shed blood on the cross.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
That in me first, he might show forth all longsuffering as a pattern...
You missed your own "argument."
"but they were looking forward to it"-you
Made up. The content of faith, required to be believed, in this dispensation, is the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV,the foundation being the death, burial,resurrecion. Thus, as you agree, that was not being preached by anyone, at least prior to its occurrence, in Mt.-John. It was hid,from the 12-no one knew. The 12 were not "looking forward to it"(the death, burial, resurrection)-they were clueless that their Master would die, much less be raised from the dead. Thus, my argument, as written stands.
STP:"It's not that complicated."