Special pleading is not going to work for me because I'm simply not willing to treat the Word with that kind of disrespect. You cannot say that a particular word, phrase, or statement means something super-duper special where it really counts for your dogma when it doesn't mean the same everywhere else. Besides, I quoted other versions of the same passage you quoted, Jer 23:6, and they agree with Jer 33:16, so your cherry picking proof texting does not appear to be working well either.
The "Church" at Acts 2 is NOT the Body of Christ
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Special pleading is not going to work for me because I'm simply not willing to treat the Word with that kind of disrespect. You cannot say that a particular word, phrase, or statement means something super-duper special where it really counts for your dogma when it doesn't mean the same everywhere else. Besides, I quoted other versions of the same passage you quoted, Jer 23:6, and they agree with Jer 33:16, so your cherry picking proof texting does not appear to be working well either.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The Keys To The Kingdom Of Heaven
Let us now look at another verse where the Greek word ekklesia refers to Israel in her religious unity:
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church (ekklesia); and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Mt.16:18-19).
Here the Lord refers to the "keys of the kingdom of heaven," the same kingdom referred to here by the Lord Jesus:
"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Mt.4:17).
Since the nation of Israel failed to recognize the Lord Jesus as their promised Messiah the setting up of the earthly kingdom has been postponed until the return of the Lord Jesus to earth:
"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).
It will not be until the Lord Jesus returns and the kingdom is brought to the earth when the Apostles will "bind on earth" what "shall be bound in heaven." That will not happen until the Apostles will sit upon twelve tribes judging the twelve tribes of Israel in the kingdom:
This speaks of the millennial reign of the Lord Jesus, the time when Israel will be restored to her previous position of being a special people unto the Lord. Therefore the "keys of the kingdom of heaven" have nothing to do with what is happening now within the Body of Christ.
Let us now look at another verse where the Greek word ekklesia refers to Israel in her religious unity:
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church (ekklesia); and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Mt.16:18-19).
Here the Lord refers to the "keys of the kingdom of heaven," the same kingdom referred to here by the Lord Jesus:
"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Mt.4:17).
Since the nation of Israel failed to recognize the Lord Jesus as their promised Messiah the setting up of the earthly kingdom has been postponed until the return of the Lord Jesus to earth:
"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).
It will not be until the Lord Jesus returns and the kingdom is brought to the earth when the Apostles will "bind on earth" what "shall be bound in heaven." That will not happen until the Apostles will sit upon twelve tribes judging the twelve tribes of Israel in the kingdom:
"That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Lk.22:30).
This speaks of the millennial reign of the Lord Jesus, the time when Israel will be restored to her previous position of being a special people unto the Lord. Therefore the "keys of the kingdom of heaven" have nothing to do with what is happening now within the Body of Christ.
This kind of arguing is the norm when it comes to debate with your enemy Christians. I admire your patience and wit. I don't have this much patience.
The accusation of Scripture cherry-picking goes both directions.
So...pick your translation and I'll pick mine. There are plenty that say that the Branch shall be called the LORD our righteousness.
You don't like it. I certainly understand that.
So...you don't think that I should believe what the Scripture plainly says.
Okay...that's your vote.
Opinions are like belly-buttons. Everybody has one.
You twist what scripture says.
No, I don't.
Problem is you have ignored the very first commandment:
You may see the Ten Words also as "legal hoops" but that really leaves you no standing.
I have and do as a believer for over 37 years.Read the Psalms, (and believe them).
Psalm 22:1-26
22:1 My El, my El, why hast Thou forsaken me? why art Thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
22:2 O my Elohim, I cry in the daytime, but Thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
22:3 But Thou art set-apart, O Thou that inhabitest the praises of Yisrael.
22:4 Our fathers trusted in Thee: they trusted, and Thou didst deliver them.
22:5 They cried unto Thee, and were delivered: they trusted in Thee, and were not confounded.
22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head saying,
22:8 He trusted on YHWH that He would deliver him: let Him deliver him, seeing he delighted in Him.
22:9 But Thou art he that took me out of the womb: Thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: Thou art my El from my mother's belly.
22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and Thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
22:19 But be not Thou far from me, O YHWH: O my strength, haste Thee to help me.
22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for Thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22:22 I will declare Thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise Thee.
22:23 Ye that fear YHWH, praise Him; all ye the seed of Yaakob, glorify Him; and fear Him all ye the seed of Yisrael.
22:24 For He hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath He hid his face from him; but when he cried unto Him, He heard.
22:25 My praise shall be of Thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that reverence Him.
22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise YHWH that seek Him: your heart shall live for ever.
See now? Yeshua has the heart of David and the Father saved-delivered him.
Isn't that amazing? Immediately after having been shown that there are other translations which do not say the same thing as what Steko quoted, Steko then says to you concerning that same posted passage, "So...you don't think that I should believe what the Scripture plainly says." Just goes to show that in Steko's world the scripture only "plainly says" what Steko says it says. :crackup:
What a weaselly statement!
That accusation goes both ways.
Yeah, I saw that and was just coming back to say that it is pretty much answered in the Psalm 22 post above, (Reply 49). So as Hosea 13:4 and the other passages say, YHWH is the only Savior: for He it is who delivered Yeshua His righteous servant Yisrael.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Yeah, I saw that and was just coming back to say that it is pretty much answered in the Psalm 22 post above, (Reply 49). So as Hosea 13:4 and the other passages say, YHWH is the only Savior: for He it is who delivered Yeshua His righteous servant Yisrael.
Yup, for until Father saved him, he was an heir.
Galatians 4:1
“Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;”
Acts 4:30
By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
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[MENTION=17195]daqq[/MENTION]Yeah, I saw that and was just coming back to say that it is pretty much answered in the Psalm 22 post above, (Reply 49). So as Hosea 13:4 and the other passages say, YHWH is the only Savior: for He it is who delivered Yeshua His righteous servant Yisrael.
I [MENTION=18375]Evil.Eye.<(I)>[/MENTION] am The Who of the TaNaKH! You don't have to research all of those words anymore...
[MENTION=17195]daqq[/MENTION]... turn to me... <(I)>... You'll be saved.
I'm waiting for your reply on this [MENTION=17195]daqq[/MENTION]...
What do you think of me now?
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Acts chapter 2 is a record of the birth of the New Testament church. Thousands heard and believed Peter's Gospel, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. Peter's Gospel was not as indepth as Paul's Gospel, but it was the Gospel. Proof of this is that the Holy Spirit was present and convicted many of their need for Christ, Acts 2:37. Some who had participated in the crucifixion of Christ, Acts 2:36.
Translation: I DaqqVader, am a bible corrector, not a bible believer, as my interpretation/understanding of what I think the bible should mean/teach, determines what the bible is, which I obtain from others, since I do not study the bible myself,and, if it does not agree with that understanding/interpretation of what others taught me, I will correct it, or find "other translations" that agree with/confirm my doctrine, what I believe.
Correcting any "the bible" presupposes an authority over it.
Thanks for the admission, bible correcting devil child. Like father...like son...