The Book of Revelation: Mystery Or Profitable?

[Arial]

You're talking about this question? Seriously?

"I have a question about that. If Revelation is for believing Jews only, if it was written to believing Jews only----as has been said by some----why is that book in our Bible? I guess I would have the same question about Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, and all the epistles not written by Paul."

I certainly understood it was a foolish question to begin with, and then, lo and behold, it got even more foolish as the "question" went on.
So, I decided to dumb it down enough for you to get the gist of why all of the Biblie is FOR US.

Tambora answered that question a long time ago. All you have been doing sense is standing on your soapbox and repeating your false teaching that has absolutely no support in scripture.Unless you do a major contortionist act. Back on ignore you go.

 

[glorydaz]

Tambora answered that question a long time ago. All you have been doing sense is standing on your soapbox and repeating your false teaching that has absolutely no support in scripture.Unless you do a major contortionist act. Back on ignore you go.

My goodness.
You must have your panties in a wad.

There, that's when I'm on my soapbox.

I love ignore. Then I don't have to listen to your little hissy fits.

 

[MWinther]

What John of Patmos does is to knit together themes from the Old Testament, such as the four colour horses, clearly deriving from Zechariah 6. The description of the beast is from Daniel. John paints an image inspired by earlier prophets and biblical catastrophic events, for now the time is ripe; Jesus will soon overthrow the evil rulers and establish his kingdom. Revelation consists mostly of the theological reflections of an inspired prophet (vid. Bauckham, The Theology of the Book of Revelation).

The author composes images that are kind of awkward, such as the sword protruding from the mouth of the Lamb. So why was this strange book included in the NT? Probably because it is interesting and inspiring, and it enables people to see meaning in the catastrophic events of their own time. People would believe that catastrophic events are signs of Jesus's imminent return. In my view, it ought not be taken too seriously. It is better to study serious theologians, such as Augustine, than to take apocalyptic prophecy seriously. Just think of all the apocalyptic sects in history, whose prophecies weren't fulfilled and who have ruined many people's lives.

ACT OF 'GOD' : How self-styled ‘Jesus of Siberia’ built mountain apocalypse cult with 10,000 disciples – before arrest in dramatic raid | The Sun

 

[glorydaz]

What John of Patmos does is to knit together themes from the Old Testament, such as the four colour horses, clearly deriving from Zechariah 6. The description of the beast is from Daniel. John paints an image inspired by earlier prophets and biblical catastrophic events, for now the time is ripe; Jesus will soon overthrow the evil rulers and establish his kingdom.

Yes, it's certainly a fulfillment of prophecy, and we can be sure it will all come about as recorded by John.
And, yes, The Kingdom will finally be a reality here on earth.
Who will inhabit it is the question.

Revelation consists mostly of the theological reflections of an inspired prophet (vid. Bauckham, The Theology of the Book of Revelation).

John was called up into heaven and he is relaying what he sees. By inspired prophet, you must mean John.

The author composes images that are kind of awkward, such as the sword protruding from the mouth of the Lamb. So why was this strange book included in the NT? Probably because it is interesting and inspiring, and it enables people to see meaning in the catastrophic events of their own time. People would believe that catastrophic events are signs of Jesus's imminent return. In my view, it ought not be taken too seriously. It is better to study serious theologians, such as Augustine, than to take apocalyptic prophecy seriously. Just think of all the apocalyptic sects in history, whose prophecies weren't fulfilled and who have ruined many people's lives.

ACT OF 'GOD' : How self-styled ‘Jesus of Siberia’ built mountain apocalypse cult with 10,000 disciples – before arrest in dramatic raid | The Sun

It's interesting, I'll give you that, but there's nothing awkward about a sword protruding from the mouth of the Lamb. That sword of the Spirit is the word of God. Everyone knows who the Lamb is.

Besides, it's all been prophesied and Revelation is just the time line.

 

[Clete]

It should also be noted that the law contained what to do when one breaks the law. So it wasn't like a "dead-end" when an Israelite broke the law.

Quite so!

When one broke the law, there were other laws one would follow to get back on track and if you refused to comply with those laws, there was no getting back on track and even then only if the obedience was mixed with faith in God. Beyond that, any shortcomings that persisted were dealt with by God's grace which looked forward to Christ's shed blood and His resurrection from the dead.

Clete

 

[Clete]

What John of Patmos does is to knit together themes from the Old Testament, such as the four colour horses, clearly deriving from Zechariah 6. The description of the beast is from Daniel. John paints an image inspired by earlier prophets and biblical catastrophic events, for now the time is ripe; Jesus will soon overthrow the evil rulers and establish his kingdom. Revelation consists mostly of the theological reflections of an inspired prophet (vid. Bauckham, The Theology of the Book of Revelation).

The author composes images that are kind of awkward, such as the sword protruding from the mouth of the Lamb. So why was this strange book included in the NT? Probably because it is interesting and inspiring, and it enables people to see meaning in the catastrophic events of their own time. People would believe that catastrophic events are signs of Jesus's imminent return. In my view, it ought not be taken too seriously. It is better to study serious theologians, such as Augustine, than to take apocalyptic prophecy seriously. Just think of all the apocalyptic sects in history, whose prophecies weren't fulfilled and who have ruined many people's lives.

ACT OF 'GOD' : How self-styled ‘Jesus of Siberia’ built mountain apocalypse cult with 10,000 disciples – before arrest in dramatic raid | The Sun

Why do you even bother calling yourself a Christian?

John did not make up the book of Revelation. He reported what he saw and what he was told to report by angels and by the Creator Himself.

That is either the case or John is a liar and not only should Revelation be removed but also the four other New Testament books that bare his name. Books that "serious theologians like Augustine" spent a great deal of time commenting on, all of which commentary, I have no doubt, you take as more authoritative than the bible itself. Imagine a Christianity without the gospel of John! Your foolishly heretical policy of not taking portions of God's word seriously undermines the whole of the Christian faith.

Clete

 

[Tambora]

666

Irenaeus, who was a student of Polycarp who was a student of John, gives us commentary on 666 in his Against Heresies 5.30.

I'll make this short and to the point .....

For the numerical value of 666, Irenaeus favors this Greek word as the best option:

tειταν ​

(titan)​

I find this to be ......

 

[Tambora]

John was called up into heaven and he is relaying what he sees.

Something to ponder is whether John actually saw the images he is writing or if he is writing what he saw using imagery.

For example:
Did John actually see a lamb open the sealed scroll, or did he see Jesus open the sealed scroll and is describing Jesus with imagery?
I mean, if he saw an actual image of a lamb open the scroll, how would that work since a lamb has no fingers or thumbs?

 

[glorydaz]

Something to ponder is whether John actually saw the images he is writing or if he is writing what he saw using imagery.

For example:
Did John actually see a lamb open the sealed scroll, or did he see Jesus open the sealed scroll and is describing Jesus with imagery?
I mean, if he saw an actual image of a lamb open the scroll, how would that work since a lamb has no fingers or thumbs?

I believe John saw all those things just the way he describes them. Some are almost indescribable. surreal even, but I know we're at the brink with AI, holograms and everything, that all these things could appear during the tribulation and wrath of God.

Rev. 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

 

[JudgeRightly]

(where two or more are gathered in my name)

That was directed at Israel, which had a corporate relationship with Christ.

But for discussion, sure. It's kind of hard to have a discussion with only one person...

... But I'm sure you knew all that already

 

[JudgeRightly]

Got a link?

Sure!

Ecclesiastes and Song of Songs MP3-CD or MP3 Download

science, philosophy, theology, morality, criminal justice, the Bible, apologetics

store.kgov.com

 

[JudgeRightly]

I'm not buying it. There is common sense and we see people using it all the time in all kinds of situations.

This is an appeal to popularity.

Just because something is popular doesn't make it right/correct.

You're right about it not being common....in this day and age. People think they're too smart to use it.

Hence it being a fallacy.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Moses was not Jew also. He was a Levite.

Using this kind of reasoning, New Amsterdam isn't actually New York, despite New York's official founding date being that of New Amsterdam's, which eventually became New York.

Do you see the problem yet?

 

[JudgeRightly]

It seems Unitarianism is the only non-idolatrous form of Christianity.

How do you answer this then, unitarian:

1) Is something (like humility) good because God recognizes it as good? Or,
2) Is something good because God commands that it is good (as Socrates put it, because God loves it)?

 

[Omniskeptical]

Using this kind of reasoning, New Amsterdam isn't actually New York, despite New York's official founding date being that of New Amsterdam's, which eventually became New York.

Do you see the problem yet?

Evidently you don't understand. Moses was an Israelite and a Levite, not a Jew.

 

[Omniskeptical]

How do you answer this then, unitarian:

1) Is something (like humility) good because God recognizes it as good? Or,
2) Is something good because God commands that it is good (as Socrates put it, because God loves it)?

1

 

[JudgeRightly]

1

So it's a standard greater than Himself? Then He's not God, is He? That standard, whatever it is, is.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Evidently you don't understand. Moses was an Israelite and a Levite, not a Jew.

"Jew" can refer to the entirety of Israel, as a synecdoche.

Ergo, there's nothing wrong with calling Moses a Jew, though I would agree that Hebrew would be a better term.

Consider also the history of Israel as a whole, with the whole Babylonian captivity.

 

[Tambora]

I believe John saw all those things just the way he describes them. Some are almost indescribable. surreal even, but I know we're at the brink with AI, holograms and everything, that all these things could appear during the tribulation and wrath of God.

Rev. 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

So you think he saw an actual lamb opening the scroll?
How did the lamb take the scroll and open it with no fingers and thumbs?
Did it take it with it's mouth and then drop it and stomp it's tiny hoofs on the seals till they broke off?
Possibly.
Or he saw Jesus and is describing Him in theoretical imagery.

It starts out saying only the Lion of Judah can open it, and then has a Lamb opening it.

Revelation 5:5-9 ESV​

(5) And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”​

(6) And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.​

(7) And he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne.​

(8) And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.​

(9) And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,​

Same person with different imagery describing Him.

 

[Tambora]

Sure!

Ecclesiastes and Song of Songs MP3-CD or MP3 Download

science, philosophy, theology, morality, criminal justice, the Bible, apologetics

store.kgov.com

Got a link that's free to read or listen to?