The Body of Christ Did Not Begin on the Day of Pentecost

Right Divider

Right Divider

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beloved57 said:
Israel the physical descendants of Abraham are not the Children of God, nor of the Promise made to Abraham Rom 9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
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Your complete lack of understanding of this passage is incredible.
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
Right Divider said:
Your complete lack of understanding of this passage is incredible.
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The children of 'promise' are the true seed of Abraham. Can't you read scripture, it's right there in black and white. Darbyians don't have any faith so it's just foolishness to them.
 
C

clefty

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Are you really this confused? If the New Covenant promised to the nation of Israel is now in force then the following prophecy would already be fulfilled:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

We can know that the house of Israel and house of Judah mentioned in these verses are made up of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That is because their "fathers" are described as being the ones who the LORD brought out of Egypt and broke the covenant and it was the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who did that!

And if the New Covenant spoken of in this passage was fulfilled now then all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would know the LORD now and all of them would be saved and will have had their sins forgiven.

That certainly has not yet happened! It will in the future and when Paul wrote his epistle to the Romans he placed the fulfillment of the New Covenant in the future:

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:26-27).​
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It has been fulfilled...to the jew first (as they were Israel by blood) and then to any and all those who believed in Yahushua and had the faith OF Yahushua not just in Him...

To the gentiles was exactly the whole point of who the OT was to reach...My house for ALL nations...sadly jews wanted to monopolize their promise and even taxed their own blood brothers into idolatry and finally completely rejected their husband...KILLED HIM...thus the old marriage covenant was complete...jews broke the covenant...

that Husband however was resurrected and now He still looks for an obedient wife...His taste in women has NOT changed a jot or tittle...


As for Paul's writing "Israel shall be saved" he means exactly the future arrival at the promised land...

Just as blood israel was saved from Egypt yet they were not completely saved as they were now in the desert headed to the promised land...NONE OF THE MADE IT...but their blood descendants did...thus physically saved...

And now Spiritually it is the same...we are saved from the consequences of the Law that is death from sin or Eygpt (saved from a spiritual eternal second death) but now remain in the spiritual wilderness until He returns to allow His obedient Israel into the spiritual promised land...

We are saved as we are grafted into Israel replacing the branches that were cut off...but not actually saved until we enter in...

As in Here are those that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua...
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
We can know that the house of Israel and house of Judah mentioned in these verses are made up of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That is because their "fathers" are described as being the ones who the LORD brought out of Egypt and broke the covenant and it was the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who did that!

And if the New Covenant spoken of in this passage was fulfilled now then all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would know the LORD now and all of them would be saved and will have had their sins forgiven.
Click to expand...

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

LA
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
Lazy afternoon said:
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

LA
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Amen. The separation doctrine is such a perversion of the gospel that Dispies cut themselves off from the new covenant promise of receiving a new heart and having all their sins forgiven. Christians who have preached the gospel and partaken of the Lord's supper for 2000 years are just imposters in their glazed over eyes.
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Epoisses said:
Amen. The separation doctrine is such a perversion of the gospel that Dispies cut themselves off from the new covenant promise of receiving a new heart and having all their sins forgiven. Christians who have preached the gospel and partaken of the Lord's supper for 2000 years are just imposters in their glazed over eyes.
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That is the truth in a nutshell, and they demonstrate their unbelief in their every post.

LA
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Jerry missed it on this one.

It was the Gospel coming into the world on the day of Pentecost that gave birth to the New Testament church.

The book of Acts is witness to that, especially Acts 2. The Gospel was the awakening event for the Jews in Jerusalem. The Holy Spirit which accompanied the Gospel literally turned Jerusalem upside down. Thousands came to know Christ as their savior, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. The disciples became apostles and were converted into powerful preachers of the Gospel, Acts 4:18, 20.
This was also the beginning of the persecutions for the church.
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Epoisses said:
The saints of God were being saved before the Jews, read Hebrews 11.
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But even the saints were not around at the foundation of the world.

How many times was Christ slain? We know he was slain in 30 CE.

Was that the foundation of the world?
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
jamie said:
But even the saints were not around at the foundation of the world.

How many times was Christ slain? We know he was slain in 30 CE.

Was that the foundation of the world?
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It's a figure of speech, Jamie to mean the beginning of time like say Abel who was not a Jew but was saved by faith in a redeemer to come.
 
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