THE APOSTLES DID NOT PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL
- Thread starter DougE
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Bearing the name (Acts 9:15) is relevant to Paul's misrepresentation of the name:
Isaiah 45:23 (YHWH)
Romans 14:11 (Lord)
Philemon 2:10 (Jesus)
You're ignoring the etymology and the historical use that associates "person" with someone's physical aspect.
Men are people, and according to Blackstone men have rights:
"Those rights then which God and nature have established, and are therefore called natural rights, such as are life and liberty, need not the aid of human laws to be more effectually invested in every man than they are; neither do they receive any additional strength when declared by the municipal laws to be inviolable." ~ Blackstone
Also, natural rights are recognised in the US Declaration of Independence (here called unalienable Rights):
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Can you show any reputable source that says that persons have the natural right of liberty?
It relates to human beings treating the state as their lawgiver and abandoning deity for that role.
God's Truth
New member
You speak mumbo jumbo.
It's related to earlier misrepresentation of the name as "the LORD".
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Isaiah 42:8, KJV
I am YHWH: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Isaiah 42:8 (with transliteration from the Hebrew name of יהוה)
Calling on the name is significant:
And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos[אנוש]: then began men to call upon the name of YHWH.
Genesis 4:26
For thus saith YHWH, Thy bruise [is] incurable[אנוש], [and] thy wound [is] grievous.
Jeremiah 30:12
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
Joel 2:32, KJV
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 2:21
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Acts 4:10-12
God's Truth
New member
God and Jesus know people call them those names.
The point is that there's a connection of between Paul's role of bearing the name, Peter's endorsement of Paul, and the inconsistency between the name used by the prophets and the name used by Peter & Paul for their corresponding verses, and Peter and Paul's role regarding the Gentiles. The word semite is derived from the Hebrew word shem, which means name, and naturally relates to the idea that Gentiles are not semites.
Here's Paul's inconsistency with the name, in full:
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am El, and there is none else.
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isaiah 45:23
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Romans 14:11
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Phillipians 2:10-11
God's Truth
New member
You make no sense.
Right Divider
Body part
No, I'm not. The term PERSON by itself means the same thing as PEOPLE.
The term 'on your person' is an idiomatic expression that has the word person in it.
People and persons means exactly the same thing.
Woopee
Fallacious argument.
You live in a dream world where words have no meaning but what you want them to have.
BTW... what does this have to do with? -> THE APOSTLES DID NOT PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL
"You're ignoring the etymology and the historical use that associates "person" with someone's physical aspect."
You obviously are. Here's what I posted about it before:
The word person derives from the word phersu, meaning mask, just as in the KJV the word person is a translation of the Hebrew word pan, meaning face.
A man has a person, so a man is more than a person. Collectively, men, women, and children are people, not persons.
Here's a supporting definition:
early 13c., from Old French persone "human being, anyone, person" (12c., Modern French personne) and directly from Latin persona "human being, person, personage; a part in a drama, assumed character," originally "a mask, a false face," such as those of wood or clay worn by the actors in later Roman theater. OED offers the general 19c. explanation of persona as "related to" Latin personare "to sound through" (i.e. the mask as something spoken through and perhaps amplifying the voice), "but the long o makes a difficulty ...." Klein and Barnhart say it is possibly borrowed from Etruscan phersu "mask." Klein goes on to say this is ultimately of Greek origin and compares Persephone.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/person
For YHWH ... regardeth not persons[פנים], nor taketh reward:
Deuteronomy 10:17
פנים = faces, appearances
You obviously are. Here's what I posted about it before:
The word person derives from the word phersu, meaning mask, just as in the KJV the word person is a translation of the Hebrew word pan, meaning face.
A man has a person, so a man is more than a person. Collectively, men, women, and children are people, not persons.
Here's a supporting definition:
early 13c., from Old French persone "human being, anyone, person" (12c., Modern French personne) and directly from Latin persona "human being, person, personage; a part in a drama, assumed character," originally "a mask, a false face," such as those of wood or clay worn by the actors in later Roman theater. OED offers the general 19c. explanation of persona as "related to" Latin personare "to sound through" (i.e. the mask as something spoken through and perhaps amplifying the voice), "but the long o makes a difficulty ...." Klein and Barnhart say it is possibly borrowed from Etruscan phersu "mask." Klein goes on to say this is ultimately of Greek origin and compares Persephone.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/person
For YHWH ... regardeth not persons[פנים], nor taketh reward:
Deuteronomy 10:17
פנים = faces, appearances
Right Divider
Body part
Indeed, God does not base His regard on appearances but on the real substance that He alone can determine.
Again, what does this have to do with the topic?
The difference between persons and people relates to the state because the state treats people as persons with no natural rights.
Obedience to the state is endorsed by Romans 13:
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Romans 13:1-2
Which contrasts with the Messiah making a distinction between deity and the state:
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
Mark 12:17
Right Divider
Body part
Again, what does this have to do with the different gospel?
The bit that I said about contrast.
oatmeal
Well-known member
As the mystery was being revealed progressively, it was not all assimilated and preached simultaneously is certain.
We do read that Peter spoke of Paul's wisdom in referring to Paul's epistles.
II Peter 3:15-16
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Clearly, Peter, for one, was well aware of the content's of Paul's epistles and recognized the wisdom given to him.
The apostles who cared to learn from Paul and the others who received the revelation of the mystery did not contradict Paul, and if they carried out their responsibility to God and His son Jesus Christ, the head of the body, they would have adhered to and taught what God revealed to Paul and others about the mystery.
Paul makes it very clear that the mystery was revealed not only to himself but to others.
Ephesians 3:4-5
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Actually, the mystery would have been first revealed to Jesus Christ, since he is the head of the body which is the church.
The mystery was hid in God, it was not hid in His son
Ephesians 3:9
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Most certainly, the twelve apostles did not teach all those things that the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus taught.
Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Peter was one of the apostles who notably contradicted the apostle Jesus' doctrine.
However, Peter was meek enough to continue to learn.
We all have a learning curve.
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Mark 4:11-12
And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
Isaiah 6:9-10
oatmeal
Well-known member
That the purpose of the parables was both to convey information and to keep secrets.
oatmeal
Well-known member
The phrase "mystery of the kingdom of God" associates with the parables of the kingdom of heaven, which in turn relates to the wisdom sayings of the gnostic gospel of Thomas. Gnosis of course means knowledge, which suggests that the following verses:
And out of the ground made YHWH Elohim to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:9
Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the LORD is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.
Samuel 2:3
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 9:13
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Matthew 12:7
For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of אלהים (Elohim) more than burnt offerings.
Hosea 6:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy אלהיך, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:6