the abomination of desolation

chrysostom

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
the abomination of desolation

found three times in daniel but the first two are quite telling
you may not find this in your bible

so what is in the holy place now?
the dome of the rock
and
it causes desolation
it is preventing the third temple
put there by the second beast of the apocalypse
the fourth beast of daniel
different from all the rest

here are the clues
what happened to the temple place?

Matthew 24:15New International Version (NIV)

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—


Daniel 9:27New International Version (NIV)

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[a] In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[c] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.[d]”[e]

Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 167 BC

the second beast of daniel

here there is a temple to desecrate and this temple was destroyed later by the third beast of daniel, the roman empire

Daniel 11:31New International Version (NIV)

31 “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

the Dome of the Rock by the Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan in 691 AD

the fourth beast of daniel

there is no temple here

only the temple fortress or the holy place and this is the abomination referred to by Jesus

once this premise is established it is easy to show that the last two beasts of daniel are the two beasts of the apocalypse

back to the apocalypse
 
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D

daqq

Well-known member
chrysostom said:
the abomination of desolation

found three times in daniel but the first two are quite telling
you may not find this in your bible

so what is in the holy place now?
the dome of the rock
and
it causes desolation
it is preventing the third temple
put there by the second beast of the apocalypse
the fourth beast of daniel
different from all the rest

here are the clues
what happened to the temple place?

Matthew 24:15New International Version (NIV)

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—


Daniel 9:27New International Version (NIV)

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[a] In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[c] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.[d]”[e]

Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 167 BC

the second beast of daniel

here there is a temple to desecrate and this temple was destroyed later by the third beast of daniel, the roman empire

Daniel 11:31New International Version (NIV)

31 “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

the Dome of the Rock by the Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan in 691 AD

the fourth beast of daniel

there is no temple here

only the temple fortress or the holy place and this is the abomination referred to by Jesus

once this premise is established it is easy to show that the last two beasts of daniel are the two beasts of the apocalypse
Click to expand...


chrysostom said:
why you may not find this in your bible

to be continued
Click to expand...

I found this in my Bible and it is even more telling: the word for abomination, (GSN#946 bdelugma) is found only three times in all of the four Gospel accounts. The first two occurrences are both from the same statement recorded twice in Matthew and Mark from the Olivet Discourse. This means that according to the Gospel writers the Master in fact only spoke of abomination two times in total because the two from the Olivet Discourse are the same statement recorded twice by two different authors. The third mention of bdelguma occurs in the Gospel of Luke which means that is the only other time the Master used that word. This fact should truly give pause to anyone who claims to be a disciple of Yeshua because it strongly implies that this is the one and only teaching from the Master on this particular topic of discussion:

Matthew 24:15 ASV
15. When therefore ye see the abomination [GSN#946 bdelugma] of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand),

Mark 13:14 ASV
14. But when ye see the abomination [GSN#946 bdelugma] of desolation standing where he ought not (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains:

The above is the first usage of bdelugma which has been recorded by two different authors. The following is the only other usage of the same word until the Book of the Revelation of Yeshua and, therefore, this word and doctrine of the Master in its context should be the only acceptable interpretation of the first usage for anyone who claims to be a disciple of Yeshua and his teachings:

Luke 16:14-15 ASV
14. And the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all these things; and they scoffed at him.
15. And he said unto them, Ye are they that justify yourselves in the sight of men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is exalted among men is an abomination [GSN#946 bdelugma] in the sight of God.

I have recently been going over much that is relative to these things in another thread with another poster here who seems to think like he is immune from most all of these critical statements of the Master: the "abomination of desolation" takes place in the heart of the man according to the Testimony and doctrine of Yeshua because every man is a personal and individual bodily temple of God, (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). :)
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
so here is the exercise
if
you choose to accept it

using biblegateway

search for the word abomination and there will be three hits in daniel

9:27, 11:31, and 12:11

look at the first two in all english translations

it is easy to do, just click on any single passage and look at the bottom of the page for it in all english translations



now, can you tell if they refer to the temple or the temple place
this is not easy



now search

he shall
and
they shall

now it is easy



he is the Antiochus IV Epiphanes
the second beast of daniel

they are the second beast of the apocalype
the fourth beast of daniel
 
Bradley D

Bradley D

Well-known member
The Holy Place is wherever the Lord is.

"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them" (Matthew 18:20).
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
chrysostom said:
the abomination of desolation

found three times in daniel but the first two are quite telling
you may not find this in your bible

so what is in the holy place now?
the dome of the rock
and
it causes desolation
it is preventing the third temple
put there by the second beast of the apocalypse
the fourth beast of daniel
different from all the rest

here are the clues
what happened to the temple place?

Matthew 24:15New International Version (NIV)

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—


Daniel 9:27New International Version (NIV)

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[a] In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[c] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.[d]”[e]

Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 167 BC

the second beast of daniel

here there is a temple to desecrate and this temple was destroyed later by the third beast of daniel, the roman empire

Daniel 11:31New International Version (NIV)

31 “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

the Dome of the Rock by the Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan in 691 AD

the fourth beast of daniel

there is no temple here

only the temple fortress or the holy place and this is the abomination referred to by Jesus

once this premise is established it is easy to show that the last two beasts of daniel are the two beasts of the apocalypse
Click to expand...


:chuckle:
 
D

disturbo

BANNED
Banned
chrysostom said:
how will we know the abomination of desolation?
Click to expand...

what is in the holy place now?
Click to expand...

Mathew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

how will we know the abomination of desolation?
Click to expand...

The abomination is authenticated when the Islamic anti-Christ declares himself as some kind of god in the Dome of the Rock or Al'Aqsa mosque. East Jerusalem is the city of seven mountains. The Dome area is Mount Moriah and at the geographical center of Jerusalem's seven mountains. From that location the man of sin will authenticate himself by making it the headquarters of their Islamic Caliphate.

The harlot definetly represents the horrific atrocities of Islamic terrorism, but seems to represent the Shia sect more. It may be that the man of sin will try to make peace between the sects, and both sects could be present there....in the Dome of the Rock complex.

The Dome area complex is an abomination in itself. It's the only city God claimed as HIs own and an Islamic 'temple now 'sits upon' it. It is 'occupied' by an Islamic shrine where Muslims believe Muhammad ascended to heaven.

Not only is that an abomination it is anti-Christ. Around the octagonal structure of the Dome of the Rock is a long classical Arabic inscription that says that God has no begotten son, thus denying that Jesus is the Son of God.

It says...
- There is no God but Allah.
- God has no son; He begetteth not.
- God taketh not unto Himself a son.
- God has no associate.
- Muhammad is the messenger of God.
- Allah will preside on Judgment Day.

Islamic prophecy teaches that Jesus (the 'Muslim jesus') will return and convert all Christians to Islam. ISIS also believes that Jesus will return to help them defeat the Islamic dajjal. Now isn't that a little strong delusion.
 
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disturbo

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Banned
chrysostom said:
what is in the holy place now?
Click to expand...

The holy place in Mathew 24:15 is not the Holy of Holies but simply the surrounding area of it.

According to Strong's...

1) place, any portion or space marked off, as it were from surrounding space
a) an inhabited place, as a city, village, district
a place (passage) in a book
2) metaph.
a) the condition or station held by one in any company or assembly
opportunity, power, occasion for acting

Acts 6:13, Acts 21:28 and Mt. 24:15 use two words are for 'holy place' (hagios and topos). Read those passages carefully and notice the context and you'll see that it's clear that those two words indicate the entire temple area.

The only two places the Holy of Holies "one word" is mentioned in the New Testament is Hebrews 9:25 and 9:12. It's clear that where only the one word for Holy place "hagion" is used it means the Holy of Holies.

Hagion and "hagios topos" is used 5 times in the NT. Twice for Holy of Holies. Three times for the entire temple area.

In Revelation 11:2 the Apostle John was instructed to measure the temple. "But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months." (Rev. 11:2)
These 42 months, or three and one half years, make up the time the Assyrian anti-Christ will trample on the holy city, Jerusalem.

The abomination will be set up in the outer courts, the court of the Gentiles, on a wing of the temple. It is likely this is one of the Islamic sights is already located there. The passage doesn't mean a temple needs to be rebuilt. The religious complex of the Dome or the outer court, or the Al'Aqsa mosque is sufficient to fulfill end-time prophecy.

Since the man of sin is said to sit in the temple of God many believe a temple needs rebuilding. The 'experts' also use Daniel 9:26-27 to say another temple needs rebuilding.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Temple in 2 Thes. 2 is naos Strong's # 3485 and that word is the one used to imply a heathen temple.
1) used of the temple at Jerusalem,
2) any heathen temple or shrine

This word is also used in the book of Acts to describe the temple that the idol stood in.

Is it just a coincidence that in East Jerusalem an Islamic complex sits upon Herod's and Solomon's Temple?
 
George Affleck

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
chrysostom said:
how will we know the abomination of desolation?
Click to expand...

If you're going to continue to play games, I'm out. Got lot's of real stuff to do.

The Bible says the abomination of desolation was the Roman army of AD 70. It no longer exists and neither does the temple.

It is all past history - prophesied and fulfilled - over and out.

:dog:
 
W

whitestone

Well-known member
Lord of Host,none close their eyes or enter into the Temple.None new you were in me. I can touch me,They come to this temple and offer fruits. Some come to this temple hatefully,some with great love. Here are the things they laid at the body where you reside. It is I think a Mystery,Christ in me.
 
Bradley D

Bradley D

Well-known member
George Affleck said:
If you're going to continue to play games, I'm out. Got lot's of real stuff to do.

The Bible says the abomination of desolation was the Roman army of AD 70. It no longer exists and neither does the temple.

It is all past history - prophesied and fulfilled - over and out.

:dog:
Click to expand...

I do not believe the Bible actually said the "Roman army of AD 70. A number of commentators believe that is what that passage probably referred to. I also believe that often prophecy may also refer to other events past, present, future. Some may see a mosque sitting on the temple mount an "abomination of desolation." In the future it may be another thing.
 
George Affleck

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
Bradley D said:
I do not believe the Bible actually said the "Roman army of AD 70. A number of commentators believe that is what that passage probably referred to. I also believe that often prophecy may also refer to other events past, present, future. Some may see a mosque sitting on the temple mount an "abomination of desolation." In the future it may be another thing.
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Bradley,

I don't think there is any question that these verses in the 3 gospels are parallel verses incorporating different aspects of Jesus' words...

Matt 24:15KJV Mark 13:14KJV Luke 21:20KJV ...and that they show that the prophesied abomination of desolation was physically fulfilled and, in fact, the Roman army that "compassed" Jerusalem.

I agree that there are times when prophecies have 2 meanings. It is, however, always a physical meaning and also a symbolic meaning. I can't think of any place in the Bible where one prophecy can be shown to have 2 physical fulfilments. (Going out on a limb here)

If you can think of any, please let me know. I would be very interested.
 
A

aikido7

BANNED
Banned
chrysostom said:
the abomination of desolation

found three times in daniel but the first two are quite telling
you may not find this in your bible

so what is in the holy place now?
the dome of the rock
and
it causes desolation
it is preventing the third temple
put there by the second beast of the apocalypse
the fourth beast of daniel
different from all the rest

here are the clues
what happened to the temple place?

Matthew 24:15New International Version (NIV)

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—


Daniel 9:27New International Version (NIV)

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[a] In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[c] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.[d]”[e]

Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 167 BC

the second beast of daniel

here there is a temple to desecrate and this temple was destroyed later by the third beast of daniel, the roman empire

Daniel 11:31New International Version (NIV)

31 “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

the Dome of the Rock by the Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan in 691 AD

the fourth beast of daniel

there is no temple here

only the temple fortress or the holy place and this is the abomination referred to by Jesus

once this premise is established it is easy to show that the last two beasts of daniel are the two beasts of the apocalypse
Click to expand...


What exactly ARE the abominations listed in the Bible?

I am aware that people with wicked thoughts, eating shellfish, a "four-legged insect" (which does not exist!), eating pork, divorce, love of money, wearing clothing that has different textiles, and many, many other examples.

How do you stack up with these literal and forceful statements?
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Chrys did not back up far enough.

the expression starts in Dan 8:13 and is the 'rebellion that desolates.' this rebellion would take place during the 4th kingdom, Rome. In 9 it is modified to the 'abomination that desolates.' When Josephus commented on this, he knew that it had to do with his generation (no gaps in the 490 years). Caiaphas was also concerned that the entire nation would perish, and thought he could 'beat' the prophecy by the sacrifice of Jesus, Jn 12 and 18.

It is not something Rome did. it is not something intertestament. It was not the crucifying of Christ, although that leads into it. it was the rebellion against Rome and Luke-Acts was written to show that the Christian mission had nothing to do with rebellion as such even though their teachings were undermining Rome's Caesarian theology. Paul wanted his countrymen in the mission of the Gospel (Rom 10-11) not trying to fight Rome.
 
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