the abomination of desolation

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
Post 137 explains in detail why the AoD is a future event and can be nothing else but.

No it doesn't.
It explains only your misinterpretation based on a system you have decided to adhere to.

Jesus tells us plainly that the AofD is the Roman army.
You will have to decide if you will choose to believe Him or be led away from the truth by your preconceptions.
 

Rondonmonson

New member
No it doesn't.
It explains only your misinterpretation based on a system you have decided to adhere to.

Jesus tells us plainly that the AofD is the Roman army.
You will have to decide if you will choose to believe Him or be led away from the truth by your preconceptions.

Jesus tells us that this will happen during the END TIMES and if God did not shorten the Events NO FLESH would be saved. Daniel 12:1-2 tells us about these SAME TROUBLES and it shows the Rapture happens at the same time as the Troubles.

Daniel 12:12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, {whoso readeth, let him understand } 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out,.......

The better question is how can anyone not see the obvious? Now I understand why Jesus said seeing they see not, hearing they hear not. I just do not get how anyone can look at those three passages and not understand the Abomination of Desolation is an END TIME EVENT !! Its astonishing.

Rev. 12 the Woman (Israel flees) flees for 1260 days when the Beast takes over Jerusalem. We see that Jesus said this would be a time of trouble like never seen before, and he was quoting Daniel, and the time of trouble in Daniel happens when Micheal stands up, and the Rapture happens in verse 2, its the same as Rev. 12, Michael casts Satan out of Heaven.

Jesus stated that if he did not shorten the time no flesh would be saved. That clearly did not happen 2000 years ago. He also gave you a clue to what would happen IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days, he would return, so your timing is proven wrong by Jesus' own words, by 2000 years.
 
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George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
The better question is how can anyone not see the obvious? Now I understand why Jesus said seeing they see not, hearing they hear not. I just do not get how anyone can look at those three passages and not understand the Abomination of Desolation is an END TIME EVENT !! Its astonishing.

There is no question that the appearance of the abomination of desolation was an event to occur during the times of the end. The question is - what end is pictured?

If we allow God to speak for Himself, we find that the end that the apostles were told about and finally understood was the end of the age, the Jewish economy, the sacrifices, the trappings, legalism, the Shekinah glory abiding in the temple, and everything that accompanied the types and shadows that spoke of the New Covenant in Christ's blood.

1 Cor 10:11KJV, 1 John 2:18KJV, 1 Pet 1:20KJV, 1 Pet 4:7KJV

It's so easy to have a narcissistic view of Scripture; that is, interpreting with our eyes and from current events. I am convinced this is why many tend not to allow the Bible to interpret itself. There are many STOP/YIELD signs in God's Word that often go unheeded.

One example is that God devotes all of Acts 2 to telling us that the gospel was preached for a witness to representatives out of every nation under heaven. This is a fulfilled prophecy of Jesus from Matthew 24. Yet many assume that this is still future; simply because they do not consider the whole counsel of God.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Further to Ronmon in above post:
The NT is loaded with indicators that that generation was to be the last, the end of the world. Everything I find about the upheaval in Judea in the 1st century says that the end and final judgement were expected 'right after' it (the turmoil in Israel).

Even while speaking to people about marriage 4 countries away, in Corinth, Paul says the time is short, don't bother, pursue the mission.

Even so, there are many things going on today are nerve wracking enough to feel like it is the end, and then we learn that people have felt this way hundreds of times since Christ, for solid reason.
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
Another misunderstanding of Jesus' words in Matthew 24 concerns the mention of the sun, moon and stars. Certainly the sun being darkened and the moon not giving its light, and the stars falling from heaven would make us think of a cataclysmic event in our solar system. But when all of Scripture is brought to bear on its interpretation, we see the real meaning.

Jesus was borrowing from the language of the prophets the words necessary to convey the idea of the impending judgement about to befall Jerusalem and the entire Jewish system. It was time to make way for the Kingdom of God to spread around the world. This necessitated the elimination of the old system and God chose the heathen might of the Roman Empire to accomplish His purpose.

Isaiah predicted the fall of Babylon at the hands of the Medes and Persians with exactly the same language. Is 13:10KJV.
Egypt was overthrown by Nebechadnezzar and Ezekiel prophesied it. Eze 32:7KJV

It is not surprising that this language is used often by the prophets. It was probably Joseph whose dream embedded in the Jewish culture the idea of Jacob (the sun), his wife (the moon), his eleven brothers (the stars) as representative of the nation. Indeed, it did become the nation of Israel under God.

Jesus uses the same metaphors that his listeners would understand, if they were biblicists, in explaining what was to befall Jerusalem.

But this leads into the next problem of this being the greatest tribulation ever to be witnessed in the world. Was there never greater loss of life or greater hardships in history? Even if we forget about the millions who died and the atrocities described by Josephus, what made this the greatest of all tribulations was that God judged His own people. That can never be repeated.
 

Rondonmonson

New member
Further to Ronmon in above post:
The NT is loaded with indicators that that generation was to be the last, the end of the world. Everything I find about the upheaval in Judea in the 1st century says that the end and final judgement were expected 'right after' it (the turmoil in Israel).

Even while speaking to people about marriage 4 countries away, in Corinth, Paul says the time is short, don't bother, pursue the mission.

Even so, there are many things going on today are nerve wracking enough to feel like it is the end, and then we learn that people have felt this way hundreds of times since Christ, for solid reason.

Matthew 24 does no such thing, you have just misunderstood Matthew 24, I have done a full Exegesis of Matthew 24 and there is a reason why Jesus mentions false chrits/false prophets and false christs and false prophets three distinct time . But for starters you suggesting "THE END" happened 2000 years ago because you can't understand the parable of the Fig Tree is a statement of why people today do not understand the scriptures.

The Fig Tree shows the SIGN of when Summer is NEAR...Jesus says LIKEWISE when YE (As in my Followers, not just the Disciples)see ALL OF THESE SIGNS, know ye that my coming is NEAR AT HAND. So what were the Signs? Why is this so hard to understand since Jesus points out about 12 signs in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:1-6 is the period between when Jesus spoke that day, and A.D. 70. There are a few keys if we lay our pride down and see it as Jesus presents it. So Jesus starts out by telling the Disciples about the future of the Temples destruction, then they wanted to know about "those things" the "SIGN of his Coming" and the End if the World.

Jesus answered them of course, his first warning was take heed that NO MAN Deceive you. Many will come in MY NAME (as the Christ/Messiah) and WILL DECEIVE MANY........And you will hear of Wars and Rumors of Wars, but do not be Troubled, for THE END IS NOT YET..........This Ends at 70 AD. How/Why do I know this? WATCH

Jesus specifically tells them the End is not YET !! He had just told them many will come in my name, and deceive many, then Jesus said you will hear of WARS and Rumors of Wars, speaking unto his Disciples.

This couldn't be clearer, the Disciples would think this is the coming END, if Jesus had not of warned them THIS IS NOT THE END, so what event was happening? Jerusalem and the Temple was being Destroyed/sacked and that is basically what happens in the End Times, and the Messiah (Jesus) is supposed to save Israel. The Pharisees and Jewish leaders knew that Rome was the Fourth Beast so they were looking for the Soon to come Little Horn, not realizing he shows up 2000 years later, thus they tried to FORCE MESSIAHS onto the scene at that time, fulfilling Jesus' words. (BELOW)

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Of course Jesus wanted the Disciples to understand very clearly that this was NOT THE END (Not his Second Coming) because if they got caught up in this event in Jerusalem, they would probably be killed and not be able to fulfill their Work of bringing forth the Church unto the world. God needed them to know that this was NOT THE END, this was a false christ coming forth and these WARS they heard about was not him coming back, but only Jerusalem being destroyed and the Temple/its people being destroyed as he had prophesied. (First christ mentioned is EXPLAINED)

Now we move past 70 AD in verses 7-13 and maybe even verse 14 could be included here. For Nation will rise against Nation and Kingdoms against Kingdoms. This is a 2000 year Panoramic view from 70 AD until the coming Rapture. Jesus doesn't mention the Rapture here, but its hinted at from verse 36-51. The Rapture ministry was basically given unto Paul later on.

Anyhow, lets carry on. There will also be pestilences (Black Plague etc.) Earthquakes, Famines etc. etc. over this period of time known as the Sorrows. Then the Disciples are delivered up to be KILLED and Hated for Jesus' names sake, and of course most all of the Disciples were Martyred of course save John the Beloved.

Verse 11 here says Many FALSE PROPHETS will arise and deceive many, of course over this 2000 year period we have had many False Teachers/Preachers/Jewish Rabbis. Think Jim Jones/David Koresh types !! So this is mentioned again for a REASON, its about a totally different time period. Jesus tells them you must ENDURE (in the Faith) until the End (Run the full RACE) and he who does will be Rewarded/Saved. Then when the Gospel is preached unto ALL OF THE WORLD, the End will come.......then Jesus transitions unto the END TIMES by speaking of the Abomination of Desolation and the coming Tribulation period. (Rapture happens/Church Age Ends).

Revelation 24:14/15-27 is Jesus telling about a period of TROUBLES like never before or since. He starts by speaking of the Abomination of Desolation (AoD) and tells the Jews to FLEE to the Mountains when they see this. Of course the Jews who heed Jesus' words are those who have Repented and accept Jesus as their Messiah just as Malachi 4:5-6, Zechariah 12:10 and 13:1 says will happen. Then the TIME OF GREAT TROUBLES Happen, Jesus said if God had not Shortened (to a PRE-PLANNED 7 Years of course)this time period NO FLESH would be saved.

Then the REAL Anti-Christ and False Prophet are mentioned as doing REAL Miracles and Wonders, unlike verses 5 and 11 where they just DECEIVED People. Jesus warns the future Jews not to go unto these men in the Desert or in their Secret Chambers ( Of course Satan is trying to trick them into coming out of their PROTECTED ZONE where he can kill them )else they will be harmed, but alas, these ELECT will not believe the lies because Jesus has forewarned them that he will be coming in the EASTERN SKIES !!

So in essence, everyone of these SIGNS must be seen by the Generation that will see Jesus return. And you can SEE A SIGN and not be born until afterwards, I see Israel being REBORN as a Sign of Ezekiel's Prophecy of Dry Bones being fulfilled, just because I was not born until 1964 doesn't mean I do not SEE THE SIGN !!!

So the Temple was destroyed, the first false christ was seen, the rumors of Jerusalem's WARS came true. We saw the Kingdoms vs Kingdoms, pestilences, earthquakes and famine signs, the Disciples all murdered, and we are VERY NEAR to seeing the Gospel preached unto ALL THE WORLD !! What is left?

Well after the Rapture, that Generation will via History see everything above I just mentioned, then they will see the Abomination of Desolation, the Jews Flee to Petra, the TIMES OF GREAT TROUBLES, the Anti-Christ and False Prophet working Miracles. They will then see the Sun Darkened, the Moon turn blood red and the Stars falling from Heaven.

The Parable of the Fig Tree tells us we must see ALL OF THESE SIGNS, meaning those living in the Tribulation are the only ones who can see ALL OF THOSE SIGNS !!!

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

You guys change the meaning of the WHOLE PASSAGE by not understanding that YE means the Future people that see ALL OF THESE SIGNS. And they can only be Tribulation Saints (Jews).

When ye see these signs, then you will see the Son of Man coming in the Clouds of Heaven.
 
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SabathMoon

BANNED
Banned
What is the abomination that causes desolation?

What is the abomination that causes desolation?

Act 12:22
And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man.

Act 12:23
And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.
 

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

You guys change the meaning of the WHOLE PASSAGE by not understanding that YE mean the Future people that see ALL OF THESE SIGNS. And they can only be Tribulation Saints.

When ye see these signs, then you will see the Son of Man coming in the Clouds of Heaven.

When you come to the point of allowing God to say what He has said instead of forcing your own ideas onto the Scriptures, you will realize that these words are a record of what Jesus said to His disciples. They are not words spoken into the air for distant generations to scan the headlines looking in vain for signs of the end of the world.

The "ye" referenced here (twice so we can't get it wrong) were flesh and blood followers of Jesus and He was instructing them about things that would happen in their generation - while they were still living. Mat 16:28KJV, Matt 23:36. They would see these things. Their very eyes would behold them. That is why the Word says "ye"; so we can understand who Jesus was talking to.

If you think that Jesus expected his hearers to let these words go in one ear and out the other and leave them for a generation 2000+ years hence, why are they recorded as having been spoken specifically to them?

Adding to the words of Scripture that which is not there is a dangerous occupation and the thing upon which the cults are based. I encourage you to let God say what He says; no more, no less. Let Scripture interpret Scripture. And if it means letting go of some man-made notions, so be it.
 

Rondonmonson

New member
When you come to the point of allowing God to say what He has said instead of forcing your own ideas onto the Scriptures, you will realize that these words are a record of what Jesus said to His disciples. They are not words spoken into the air for distant generations to scan the headlines looking in vain for signs of the end of the world.

The "ye" referenced here (twice so we can't get it wrong) were flesh and blood followers of Jesus and He was instructing them about things that would happen in their generation - while they were still living. Mat 16:28KJV, Matt 23:36. They would see these things. Their very eyes would behold them. That is why the Word says "ye"; so we can understand who Jesus was talking to.

If you think that Jesus expected his hearers to let these words go in one ear and out the other and leave them for a generation 2000+ years hence, why are they recorded as having been spoken specifically to them?

Adding to the words of Scripture that which is not there is a dangerous occupation and the thing upon which the cults are based. I encourage you to let God say what He says; no more, no less. Let Scripture interpret Scripture. And if it means letting go of some man-made notions, so be it.

The only person "ADDING WORDS" is you and your ilk because you do not understand what they say. The Holy Spirit should never mislead his own. The fact that you can't even understand the Abomination of Desolation is an END TIME VENT is quite startling. It just is not even debatable.Of course your 70 AD THEORY has to twist everything else around, it evens has to make the END TIMES 2000 years ago even though it wasn't.

Jesus was clearly speaking about the Generation that SEES ALL of these things. You just can't seem to grasp that it seems. But when you get to heaven you will see in full then. Its my job to know the truth.
 
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