TERROR IS A SWORD OF JUDGEMENT.

[nikolai_42]

God has control of everything, and I believe that he protects his people, but this world is full of sin, and if we disobey God and kill when he's told us not to, then we are listening to the devil, just as the suicide bomber was in Manchester and God will be his judge. If he was meant to kill those people because of Gods will, then he won't be punished. And it is then right to commit terrorist acts because it is Gods will. Those who believe this, then support terrorism. Because they say they are doing it for God! No they're not. They are listening to their father the devil when they do such things!

I want to address this first of all because I think this is where our most fundamental disagreement lies. I will admit I haven't read any further since this is an important point that I want to address - and probably won't have time to do anything more than that (and briefly) right now. But I want you to know I'm not ignoring the rest of your post. It is possible you partially deal with what I'm about to say, but this way I'm highlighting something that I think is critical and we can deal with the upshot later.

If what you say is true (primarily what I underlined from your post) then not only would God be at the mercy of His creation (reacting to it when it does things He doesn't want) but He would be giving "free passes" to murderers, rapists, liars, idolators etc... because they accomplished God's will. Essentially saying God's ends justify your means. But that's not what I see in scripture. I see a God who is Sovereign over all and can do all His will (Isaiah 46:10,11), restrain what He doesn't want to take place (Psalm 76:10), bring about peace as well as evil (not creating sin, but bringing about calamity and awful ends - Isaiah 45:7) and still hold men responsible for their wickedness - as they are. I think the first thing that we have to remember is that before God, the man who is a murderer (like the terrorist) is no different in the eyes of God than someone who has a burning hatred for someone without just cause. The man who commits adultery is no different before God than the one who "merely" lusts in his heart. The one who covets something someone else has is no different (before God) than the one who bows down to a wooden idol. Even as far back as the flood, God assesses the real problem as being man's heart :

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Genesis 6:5

So the verdict rendered by God through Jeremiah should ring true in the ears of every man, woman and child:

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9

So - at the very least - the terrorist is guilty of murder in his heart. Those were not thoughts put there by God. So he cannot blame his Maker for making him this way. So when we read what Paul says in Romans 9, it needs to be with that understanding :

For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Romans 9:17-23

God is "enduring" the wickedness of man. He is not caught off guard by it. He is not gritting His teeth and hoping it goes away. He isn't just waiting for man to do something about it - but that whole passage shows that wicked man (wicked in his heart because of sin - not because of God) is being patiently endured by a very longsuffering God. This creation that He could (as He did in Genesis 6) wipe out all at once. Sodom and Gomorrah being another example of that swift and total justice. So at the outset, man is not in a place to justify himself before a holy God. No one. Not a single person. There is none righteous - no not one.

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things
Romans 2:1

And that verse is on the heels of the infamous Romans 1 - in which God gives men over to their lusts. Gives them over...removes the restraints...releases them from moral respectability. So what is in their hearts has become a physical reality because God has removed His hand. Man is either ruined by sin or has dominion over it - there is no other ground. And if he has dominion over it, he doesn't need a Savior because he can overcome it himself. So man is responsible before God for his wickedness. God is merciful when He restrains that wickedness and when He removes His hand - even just a little - we start to see what man really is (and don't like it because we have to face ourselves as we are without Him). So that terrorist would be punished just the same whether he set the bomb or not. That murder was in his heart and God's judgment was just by removing the restraint on his desires.

As for attributing these things to God, I think the idea of man's natural bent and God's restraint is a decent answer - but consider one more thing. When Jesus went about doing miracles, the Jerusalem scribes came down to Him and accused Him of operating under the authority of Satan. Jesus first uses logic to show that absurd ("How can Satan cast out Satan?", "A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand") and then goes on to issue a stern warning :

Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
Mark 3:28-30

Essentially, Jesus was warning against attributing to Satan what was of God. To say the Holy Spirit was actually an evil spirit is dangerous territory. So if Jesus was doing things that were of God and the scribes saying they were of the adversary, what do we make of Job?

And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.
In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
Job 1:21-22

In a combination of natural disasters and vicious assaults, Job lost everything. But he attributed it all to God. And we are told that He did NOT charge God foolishly. He rightly laid at the feet of God all the evil that befell him. All these outward works God may take responsibility for, but man is judged for his heart (as evidenced by his works). These works God can take responsibility for bringing to bear (or can mercifully restrain them) but man still is punished for his sin because it comes from the heart. If man was not wicked at heart the world would be a MUCH different place. Not only would there be no need for a Savior, but there wouldn't be unfaithful Israel and cruel Rome to do what God foreordained from the foundation of the world - kill the Lord of glory. Thus, in man's sin and God's Sovereignty God gets glory and man is rightly judged. But God is merciful - more so than most of us have an inkling of...

 

[nikolai_42]

It even says in what you have posted, that God foreknew what they would do, but Jesus was willing for it, and it also said that they were wicked, and by wicked hands they killed him, not by God's hand, wicked ones, God is not wicked, there is no wickedness in him! Jesus said, you are doing the works of your father the devil when he referred to them trying to kill him, and he said, Moses has a law, and you do not keep it, why are you trying to kill me? (John 7 and John 8)

Let me ask you this - does God merely react to what His creation does? Because that's the way I read your statement here. God wasn't looking for an opportunity to insert the crucifixion into time, it was foreordained before any of the Israelites or Romans were on the scene. If God isn't reacting to His creation, then the only option is that He is Sovereign over it and does with it as He pleases - He moves and acts and creation responds (as God has intended). Not the other way around.

 

[marhig]

I want to address this first of all because I think this is where our most fundamental disagreement lies. I will admit I haven't read any further since this is an important point that I want to address - and probably won't have time to do anything more than that (and briefly) right now. But I want you to know I'm not ignoring the rest of your post. It is possible you partially deal with what I'm about to say, but this way I'm highlighting something that I think is critical and we can deal with the upshot later.

If what you say is true (primarily what I underlined from your post) then not only would God be at the mercy of His creation (reacting to it when it does things He doesn't want) but He would be giving "free passes" to murderers, rapists, liars, idolators etc... because they accomplished God's will. Essentially saying God's ends justify your means. But that's not what I see in scripture. I see a God who is Sovereign over all and can do all His will (Isaiah 46:10,11), restrain what He doesn't want to take place (Psalm 76:10), bring about peace as well as evil (not creating sin, but bringing about calamity and awful ends - Isaiah 45:7) and still hold men responsible for their wickedness - as they are. I think the first thing that we have to remember is that before God, the man who is a murderer (like the terrorist) is no different in the eyes of God than someone who has a burning hatred for someone without just cause. The man who commits adultery is no different before God than the one who "merely" lusts in his heart. The one who covets something someone else has is no different (before God) than the one who bows down to a wooden idol. Even as far back as the flood, God assesses the real problem as being man's heart :

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Genesis 6:5

So the verdict rendered by God through Jeremiah should ring true in the ears of every man, woman and child:

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9

So - at the very least - the terrorist is guilty of murder in his heart. Those were not thoughts put there by God. So he cannot blame his Maker for making him this way. So when we read what Paul says in Romans 9, it needs to be with that understanding :

For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Romans 9:17-23

God is "enduring" the wickedness of man. He is not caught off guard by it. He is not gritting His teeth and hoping it goes away. He isn't just waiting for man to do something about it - but that whole passage shows that wicked man (wicked in his heart because of sin - not because of God) is being patiently endured by a very longsuffering God. This creation that He could (as He did in Genesis 6) wipe out all at once. Sodom and Gomorrah being another example of that swift and total justice. So at the outset, man is not in a place to justify himself before a holy God. No one. Not a single person. There is none righteous - no not one.

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things
Romans 2:1

And that verse is on the heels of the infamous Romans 1 - in which God gives men over to their lusts. Gives them over...removes the restraints...releases them from moral respectability. So what is in their hearts has become a physical reality because God has removed His hand. Man is either ruined by sin or has dominion over it - there is no other ground. And if he has dominion over it, he doesn't need a Savior because he can overcome it himself. So man is responsible before God for his wickedness. God is merciful when He restrains that wickedness and when He removes His hand - even just a little - we start to see what man really is (and don't like it because we have to face ourselves as we are without Him). So that terrorist would be punished just the same whether he set the bomb or not. That murder was in his heart and God's judgment was just by removing the restraint on his desires.

As for attributing these things to God, I think the idea of man's natural bent and God's restraint is a decent answer - but consider one more thing. When Jesus went about doing miracles, the Jerusalem scribes came down to Him and accused Him of operating under the authority of Satan. Jesus first uses logic to show that absurd ("How can Satan cast out Satan?", "A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand") and then goes on to issue a stern warning :

Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
Mark 3:28-30

Essentially, Jesus was warning against attributing to Satan what was of God. To say the Holy Spirit was actually an evil spirit is dangerous territory. So if Jesus was doing things that were of God and the scribes saying they were of the adversary, what do we make of Job?

And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.
In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
Job 1:21-22

In a combination of natural disasters and vicious assaults, Job lost everything. But he attributed it all to God. And we are told that He did NOT charge God foolishly. He rightly laid at the feet of God all the evil that befell him. All these outward works God may take responsibility for, but man is judged for his heart (as evidenced by his works). These works God can take responsibility for bringing to bear (or can mercifully restrain them) but man still is punished for his sin because it comes from the heart. If man was not wicked at heart the world would be a MUCH different place. Not only would there be no need for a Savior, but there wouldn't be unfaithful Israel and cruel Rome to do what God foreordained from the foundation of the world - kill the Lord of glory. Thus, in man's sin and God's Sovereignty God gets glory and man is rightly judged. But God is merciful - more so than most of us have an inkling of...

I'm going to have to take my time and read this properly later.

But can I ask you this, are terrorists who blow up people doing it by the will of God?

Because you agree with Truster, and according to him, those people people were at the right place at the right time and they are all wicked and received justice including a child of 8 years old! So that must mean that those who commit acts of terrorism according to you and Truster are doing so by the will of God?

Or how do you see it because I'm confused, we can either live by the will of God in his love and mercy, or by our own will of the flesh and listen to Satan!

Which one is a suicide bomber living by?

 

[Truster]

I'm going to have to take my time and read this properly later.

But can I ask you this, are terrorists who blow up people doing it by the will of God?

Because you agree with Truster, and according to him, those people people were at the right place at the right time and they are all wicked and received justice including a child of 8 years old! So that must mean that those who commit acts of terrorism according to you and Truster are doing so by the will of God?

Or how do you see it because I'm confused, we can either live by the will of God in his love and mercy, or by our own will of the flesh and listen to Satan!

Which one is a suicide bomber living by?

Evil is an ingredient that has purpose in time. The ingredient is at the disposal of Him who works all things according to the purpose of His own will. Satan is the means by which the ingredient is concocted and delivered.

 

[marhig]

Evil is an ingredient that has purpose in time. The ingredient is at the disposal of Him who works all things according to the purpose of His own will.

And I know that it is not of God to say that it is evil and wicked to do his will and obey him as you keep saying.

This is of Satan not God!

 

[Truster]

And I know that it is not of God to say that it is evil and wicked to do his will and obey him as you keep saying.

This is of Satan not God!

Any good performed by mankind must meet the required standard. That standard is perfect justness( righteousness). This means that the intents, thoughts, words and deeds must all reach that standard in everything. Only Messiah has done that. Adam failed and all of Adams children fail. Only when we are in the Messiah are we accepted in the Beloved.

To think you are able to reach that standard is wickedness itself.

 

[marhig]

Any good performed by mankind must meet the required standard. That standard is perfect justness( righteousness). This means that the intents, thoughts, words and deeds must all reach that standard in everything. Only Messiah has done that. Adam failed and all of Adams children fail. Only when we are in the Messiah are we accepted in the Beloved.

To think you are able to reach that standard is wickedness itself.

How many times do I have to tell you that I don't believe that I can do anything by myself??? It's like you're not listening to me. We can't do anything without the power of the Holy Spirit within. And anything we do can only be done through Christ. He is the only way the truth and the life, Without God and Christ we are still in darkness.

Regardless of what you believe, we have a choice to make every day, to obey God and do his will, or obey our flesh, and once we turn from the flesh, through faith we will receive the strength to overcome.

 

[Truster]

How many times do I have to tell you that I don't believe that I can do anything by myself??? It's like you're not listening to me. We can't do anything without the power of the Holy Spirit within. And anything we do can only be done through Christ. He is the only way the truth and the life, Without God and Christ we are still in darkness.

Regardless of what you believe, we have a choice to make every day, to obey God and do his will, or obey our flesh, and once we turn from the flesh, through faith we will receive the strength to overcome.

You are saying that because you believe that the Almighty owes you salvation.

 

[marhig]

You are saying that because you believe that the Almighty owes you salvation.

What??? Where did I say that?

Truster, when Jesus said repent, we had a choice, repent or not. We can't be saved unless we truly believe, but we have a choice to believe or not.

Christ separates through the gospel. As we can see through the parable of the sower.

Luke 8:5

A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. 8:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. 8:9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. 8:16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light. 8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

 

[nikolai_42]

I'm going to have to take my time and read this properly later.

But can I ask you this, are terrorists who blow up people doing it by the will of God?

Because you agree with Truster, and according to him, those people people were at the right place at the right time and they are all wicked and received justice including a child of 8 years old! So that must mean that those who commit acts of terrorism according to you and Truster are doing so by the will of God?

Or how do you see it because I'm confused, we can either live by the will of God in his love and mercy, or by our own will of the flesh and listen to Satan!

Which one is a suicide bomber living by?

Is that child of 8 years old as innocent as Jesus was when He was murdered? What about those "innocent" Cannanite (?) children that God told Israel to slaughter (because they were born into a virulently idolatrous people? Was that just? Are we any different (by nature) today? There is certainly something of a dispensation given by God to children, but the fact remains that we come out of that womb as sinners. As in Adam all die....and David confesses that he was born in sin. And we also read that the wicked go astray from the womb (Psalm 58:3). If we accept that all are wicked, then this is just more support that we are not born "good" and become evil by works.

So to answer your question, the terrorist could not do what he did unless God allowed it. And because I believe God allows everything He does for a reason (that I confess I can't make out a lot of the time), I have to believe that it will redound to His glory and will be understandable at some point in the future. It isn't as simple as saying the man is doing God's will. God said He would accomplish ALL His will. So someone who lost a child (or more) in that bombing would be in a similar position to Job and could (justly) say "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord.". If it was all on the terrorist and you couldn't tie it (in any way) to God's will, then you couldn't say that. And God would be (in some sense) at the mercy of His own creation. That flies in the face of Him doing all His will. It's either His or ours (or the devil's) that will be done. And if His is to be done, He will restrain and release men as He sees fit to do what they naturally want to do and accomplish His own glory and the triumph of Truth. Sort of like the crucifixion. It was no accident and if God was reacting to man (in the sense of waiting until He found people willing to kill Jesus and then sending Him) then it was not done according to His perfect will. Wicked hands crucified the Lord according to the determinate counsel of God. And it was (and is) to His glory and the salvation of many.

 

[Truster]

What??? Where did I say that?

Truster, when Jesus said repent, we had a choice, repent or not. We can't be saved unless we truly believe, but we have a choice to believe or not.

Christ separates through the gospel. As we can see through the parable of the sower.

Luke 8:5

A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. 8:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. 8:9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. 8:16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light. 8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

Neither you nor anyone else has the capacity to repent.

 

[marhig]

Is that child of 8 years old as innocent as Jesus was when He was murdered? What about those "innocent" Cannanite (?) children that God told Israel to slaughter (because they were born into a virulently idolatrous people? Was that just? Are we any different (by nature) today? There is certainly something of a dispensation given by God to children, but the fact remains that we come out of that womb as sinners. As in Adam all die....and David confesses that he was born in sin. And we also read that the wicked go astray from the womb (Psalm 58:3). If we accept that all are wicked, then this is just more support that we are not born "good" and become evil by works.

So to answer your question, the terrorist could not do what he did unless God allowed it. And because I believe God allows everything He does for a reason (that I confess I can't make out a lot of the time), I have to believe that it will redound to His glory and will be understandable at some point in the future. It isn't as simple as saying the man is doing God's will. God said He would accomplish ALL His will. So someone who lost a child (or more) in that bombing would be in a similar position to Job and could (justly) say "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord.". If it was all on the terrorist and you couldn't tie it (in any way) to God's will, then you couldn't say that. And God would be (in some sense) at the mercy of His own creation. That flies in the face of Him doing all His will. It's either His or ours (or the devil's) that will be done. And if His is to be done, He will restrain and release men as He sees fit to do what they naturally want to do and accomplish His own glory and the triumph of Truth. Sort of like the crucifixion. It was no accident and if God was reacting to man (in the sense of waiting until He found people willing to kill Jesus and then sending Him) then it was not done according to His perfect will. Wicked hands crucified the Lord according to the determinate counsel of God. And it was (and is) to His glory and the salvation of many.

God's will is that we love one another not kill one another!

You're referring to the old testament, that we before Jesus came. Now we have no excuse he has lived out the way. Anyone who murders another is not doing so by the will of God.

And it clearly says in 2nd Thessalonians 2 that those who crucified Jesus pleased not God! They pleased him not!!!!!

Jesus knew that he would be murdered and God foretold what would happen to him through the prophets, but what they did to Jesus was wrong and their father the devil was in their hearts, as Jesus said he was a murderer from the beginning. But Jesus was willing for it, because he came to bare witness to the truth live it out for all to see and spread the gospel of truth and peace!

I have never said that Jesus didn't have to go through what he went through, he did. He had to suffer whatever was set before him and overcome this world and Satan with love, mercy and forgiveness. And he did. He overcame Satan by a new and living way of truth, love, mercy and forgiveness consecrated in his flesh, and those who belong to God follow him in his new and living way!

Read the parable of the wicked servants, (Matthew 21) this is about Jesus!!

Anyone who says that it is Gods will to commit suicide and blow up children, doesn't truly know him or Christ!

Our lord Jesus says, suffer the little children to come unto me, for such are in the kingdom of heaven. He didn't say blow them up. Or pick only those who have righteous parents, he gathered them all!

God is love, how is it love in the heart of those who blow up children?

It's heartbreaking, and what is disturbing is that you and Truster seem to show no compassion whatsoever for those who have lost their families! I think it's heartbreaking!

Those who take the life of another, have the blood of those they have killed on their heads! That bomber was not listening to God when he killed those people, he was listening to Satan!

 

[nikolai_42]

I'm going to have to take my time and read this properly later.

But can I ask you this, are terrorists who blow up people doing it by the will of God?

Because you agree with Truster, and according to him, those people people were at the right place at the right time and they are all wicked and received justice including a child of 8 years old! So that must mean that those who commit acts of terrorism according to you and Truster are doing so by the will of God?

Or how do you see it because I'm confused, we can either live by the will of God in his love and mercy, or by our own will of the flesh and listen to Satan!

Which one is a suicide bomber living by?

I will make one more very general, very high level observation. Thinking about scripture and what has been done through wicked men (Ishmaelites and Joseph's brothers, Pharaoh in Moses' day, Job, Jesus crucifixion...etc...) and the perspective of Jesus' comments on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, one is on far safer ground attributing what is generally called the works of Satan to God (in some sense) than one is doing the opposite.

Also, an added thought - read God's declaration to Israel about His promised blessing for obedience or His promised judgments for disobedience (Deuteronomy 28 and Leviticus 26 are parallel but not absolutely the same in detail). Consider some of the judgments God said HE would bring (Lev 26:16 says "I will do this to you..." whereas Deut 28:15 only says "...all these curses shall come upon thee..." but it is directly related to disobedience to God. Is Satan punishing them for disobeying God?). Some of them are clearly natural judgments (sickness, failing crops, natural disasters etc...) but some of them are far more horrific and involve the acts of others :

Lev 26:16 - enemies eat your produce
Lev 26:17 - killed before your enemies; ruled over by those that hate you; paranioa
Lev 26:22 - God says HE will send wild beasts to destroy your children
Lev 26:29 - you will eat the flesh of your sons and daughters (this is God's judgement!)
Lev 26:36-37 - no power to stand before your enemies and your enemies will overrun you

And in the Deuteronomy passage :

Deut 28:22 - consumed by the sword
Deut 28:25 - killed before your enemies and scattered (God will "cause" the ungodly to kill His own people!)
Deut 28:30 - thou shalt betroth a wife and another man will lie with her
Deut 28:31 - livestock taken violently by your enemies
Deut 28:32 - sons and daughters given to "another people"
Deut 28:36 - enforced idolatry
Deut 28:48-57 - totally ravaged by another nation (no restraint in these verses...and this is from God?)

So how is that not similar to God using terrorists to judge a people? Actually, it seems mild by comparison.

 

[marhig]

I will make one more very general, very high level observation. Thinking about scripture and what has been done through wicked men (Ishmaelites and Joseph's brothers, Pharaoh in Moses' day, Job, Jesus crucifixion...etc...) and the perspective of Jesus' comments on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, one is on far safer ground attributing what is generally called the works of Satan to God (in some sense) than one is doing the opposite.

Also, an added thought - read God's declaration to Israel about His promised blessing for obedience or His promised judgments for disobedience (Deuteronomy 28 and Leviticus 26 are parallel but not absolutely the same in detail). Consider some of the judgments God said HE would bring (Lev 26:16 says "I will do this to you..." whereas Deut 28:15 only says "...all these curses shall come upon thee..." but it is directly related to disobedience to God. Is Satan punishing them for disobeying God?). Some of them are clearly natural judgments (sickness, failing crops, natural disasters etc...) but some of them are far more horrific and involve the acts of others :

Lev 26:16 - enemies eat your produce
Lev 26:17 - killed before your enemies; ruled over by those that hate you; paranioa
Lev 26:22 - God says HE will send wild beasts to destroy your children
Lev 26:29 - you will eat the flesh of your sons and daughters (this is God's judgement!)
Lev 26:36-37 - no power to stand before your enemies and your enemies will overrun you

And in the Deuteronomy passage :

Deut 28:22 - consumed by the sword
Deut 28:25 - killed before your enemies and scattered (God will "cause" the ungodly to kill His own people!)
Deut 28:30 - thou shalt betroth a wife and another man will lie with her
Deut 28:31 - livestock taken violently by your enemies
Deut 28:32 - sons and daughters given to "another people"
Deut 28:36 - enforced idolatry
Deut 28:48-57 - totally ravaged by another nation (no restraint in these verses...and this is from God?)

So how is that not similar to God using terrorists to judge a people? Actually, it seems mild by comparison.

I will read this later as I have to make my husband his dinner

But I know from my heart, that it is not of God to murder.

God said, thou shalt not kill, and he meant just that!

 

[nikolai_42]

God's will is that we love one another not kill one another!

You're referring to the old testament, that we before Jesus came. Now we have no excuse he has lived out the way. Anyone who murders another is not doing so by the will of God.

And it clearly says in 2nd Thessalonians 2 that those who crucified Jesus pleased not God! They pleased him not!!!!!

Jesus knew that he would be murdered and God foretold what would happen to him through the prophets, but what they did to Jesus was wrong and their father the devil was in their hearts, as Jesus said he was a murderer from the beginning. But Jesus was willing for it, because he came to bare witness to the truth live it out for all to see and spread the gospel of truth and peace!

I have never said that Jesus didn't have to go through what he went through, he did. He had to suffer whatever was set before him and overcome this world and Satan with love, mercy and forgiveness. And he did. He overcame Satan by a new and living way of truth, love, mercy and forgiveness consecrated in his flesh, and those who belong to God follow him in his new and living way!

Read the parable of the wicked servants, (Matthew 21) this is about Jesus!!

Anyone who says that it is Gods will to commit suicide and blow up children, doesn't truly know him or Christ!

Our lord Jesus says, suffer the little children to come unto me, for such are in the kingdom of heaven. He didn't say blow them up. Or pick only those who have righteous parents, he gathered them all!

God is love, how is it love in the heart of those who blow up children?

It's heartbreaking, and what is disturbing is that you and Truster seem to show no compassion whatsoever for those who have lost their families! I think it's heartbreaking!

Those who take the life of another, have the blood of those they have killed on their heads! That bomber was not listening to God when he killed those people, he was listening to Satan!

You are totally overlooking a couple of things :

1. I am not saying that this is God's express will in the sense that God wants man to do this. Evil generally is not God's will. But it is a part of reality and God often brings it about for sometimes (most times?) mysterious reasons. All I'm saying is that He doesn't sit there and blame Satan for it all or even us. He blames our actions for His judgment. And the way He judges need not be (in fact should not be) agreeable to us because it is intended to bring about repentance. God uses sin to judge sin. He is not the author of it but He can restrain it all He wants and let it loose to whatever extent He deems necessary. That doesn't make sin His will but it does mean He uses what is and He even brings about (in some sense) the results because He is the only one ANYWHERE who wills AND does according to His own pleasure. Man plans his ways but God directs His steps. If God wants evil to be restrained, it will be. If He doesn't, He will let it loose and there is nothing anyone can do about it. In that sense, what happens is His will, but it is not His ultimate end.

2. This is not a matter of being compassionate or not. It certainly was an awful thing that happened to those children. I would think it would be easy to weep with those that weep and mourn with those that mourn. But isn't that part of the point? Wouldn't one assume that this is awful and wouldn't one assume we don't want it? The point I'm trying to make is that not wanting it (not liking it, hating evil) doesn't mean God wasn't in some way an integral part of the whole thing. God promises judgment (and He is the same as He was in the OT) and if we construct a God for ourselves that does not judge, that is no better than an idol. If we have a God we can handle, we don't have the True and Living God. Just ask Isaiah and John. The writer of Hebrews calls Him a consuming fire. Purity - absolute purity - is part of who and what He is. That means no (ultimate) tolerance for anything that is imperfect. He is also love. A jealous God. We are finite beings who can't fathom what it is to be ALL anything. So when judgment comes, God isn't going to pussyfoot around and try and be as gently judgmental as He can. He hates sin that absolutely.

 

[Tehmill]

Terror is an instrument in the hands of the Eternal Almighty. He uses the wicked to destroy the wicked. Nobody is safe when He strikes and He never misses a target.

Manchester Arena is one of many Temples that have been built for the worship of man. Either in sporting or entertainment forms of idolatry. It is a fitting venue for the Eternal Almighty, whose Name is Jealous, to reveal His wrath from heaven against irreverence and injustice of humanity. Romans 1:18

"Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and Yah Veh hath not done it?" Amos 3:6​

“How are they brought unto desolation, as in a blink! in consuming they are consumed with terrors”. Psalm 73:19​

“TZADDI. Just art thou, O YAH VEH, and upright are Thy judgments”. Psalm 119:137
​

jerzy and Meshak agree with you...Islam is a work of God to punish Christians, behead the men, make sexual slaves of the women, brainwash the children.

It was GOD says Truster who blew up those children in Manchester....

 

[nikolai_42]

I will read this later as I have to make my husband his dinner

But I know from my heart, that it is not of God to murder.

God said, thou shalt not kill, and he meant just that!

And I will say again - God looks on the heart and what comes out of the heart becomes action. So if God restrains what is in man's heart, that doesn't make man any less wicked. It makes God more merciful and it means that we rarely see the real consequence of sin. And when we do, God is not the author of it - just the revealer. God is showing man what is in his heart when He does this (and judging at the same time).

 

[Truster]

You are totally overlooking a couple of things :

1. I am not saying that this is God's express will in the sense that God wants man to do this. Evil generally is not God's will. But it is a part of reality and God often brings it about for sometimes (most times?) mysterious reasons. All I'm saying is that He doesn't sit there and blame Satan for it all or even us. He blames our actions for His judgment. And the way He judges need not be (in fact should not be) agreeable to us because it is intended to bring about repentance. God uses sin to judge sin. He is not the author of it but He can restrain it all He wants and let it loose to whatever extent He deems necessary. That doesn't make sin His will but it does mean He uses what is and He even brings about (in some sense) the results because He is the only one ANYWHERE who wills AND does according to His own pleasure. Man plans his ways but God directs His steps. If God wants evil to be restrained, it will be. If He doesn't, He will let it loose and there is nothing anyone can do about it. In that sense, what happens is His will, but it is not His ultimate end.

2. This is not a matter of being compassionate or not. It certainly was an awful thing that happened to those children. I would think it would be easy to weep with those that weep and mourn with those that mourn. But isn't that part of the point? Wouldn't one assume that this is awful and wouldn't one assume we don't want it? The point I'm trying to make is that not wanting it (not liking it, hating evil) doesn't mean God wasn't in some way an integral part of the whole thing. God promises judgment (and He is the same as He was in the OT) and if we construct a God for ourselves that does not judge, that is no better than an idol. If we have a God we can handle, we don't have the True and Living God. Just ask Isaiah and John. The writer of Hebrews calls Him a consuming fire. Purity - absolute purity - is part of who and what He is. That means no (ultimate) tolerance for anything that is imperfect. He is also love. A jealous God. We are finite beings who can't fathom what it is to be ALL anything. So when judgment comes, God isn't going to pussyfoot around and try and be as gently judgmental as He can. He hates sin that absolutely.

Two questions.

If sin was not part and parcel of the will of the Almighty before the foundation of the world. Why did He prepare a Saviour before the foundation of the world.

Question 2 Did you get that booklet on repentance?

 

[Tehmill]

Why didn't God blow Truster up then when he was a sinner like everyone else?

The worst thing men ever did was nail God's Son to the cross...He said "Father forgive them ...."

 

[Tehmill]

Two questions.

If sin was not part and parcel of the will of the Almighty before the foundation of the world. Why did He prepare a Saviour before the foundation of the world.

Question 2 Did you get that booklet on repentance?

Q1...He prepared a Saviour because He FOREKNEW...He did not will sin, He forbade sin

Q2 Your mind is worse now than before you repented