Which ones are true?
So what can't we eat now today, according to God/Christ ?
Last edited:
Swine Sausage - Sin?
- Thread starter 6days
- Start date
So what can't we eat now today, according to God/Christ ?
I don't understand your question.
Crickets
Lon
Well-known member
:doh:
Again all you, paganizing others disagreeing with you. Why does 'your' flesh jump so quickly to this all-too-human accusation? :think:Try not to let your belly decide for you: do what is right in the eyes of Elohim.
It isn't and doesn't make you 'spiritual' to say it so fleshly and accusingly. The enemy is an accuser.
:think:
Every whack cult-job out there does the same thing, making it a tired inane canard. :sigh: Only bullet in your gun-belt I suppose...
Lon
Well-known member
He said nothing but fish and vegetables:
iouae
Well-known member
These translations are correct which say that no more AFTER HAVING EATEN THEN would Christ eat any more.
How do we know?
"With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you".
Does Christ say he was looking forward to eating or not eating?
Matt 26 confirms He ate...
23 And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.
This shows Christ was dipping his hand in the dish with them.
And this argument is a red herring anyway because clearly the disciples were eating the Passover lamb - with Christ's blessing.
So Christ endorses the killing of animals and eating of red meat.
Summary concerning the Luke 22:15-16 question:
Answer #1) jamie: I don't understand your question.
Answer #2) Lon: You're an accuser and a paganizing wack cult-job and this is the only bullet in your gun-belt.
Answer #3) iouae: Christ endorses killing of animals and eating of red meat because I said so.
:rip:
Lon
Well-known member
:nono: That is what "I" said, not an answer. "I know you are but what am I" probably worked for you in grade-school. Today, as an adult? :nono: Not so much...
QUIT trying to paganize someone else to feed your superiority/inferiority complex. THAT is actually fleshly (and WRONG). Instead, be correctable and learn to appreciate when someone smarter than you AND filled with the Spirit of God, is trying to teach you something instead of trying to dismiss them with a 'fleshly' wave-off. It is way-too serious of an accusation to loosely throw in every direction to anyone who disagrees with you. It simply is not true, thus you look like a nut tossing it out one after another as the only bullet in your belt. It loses its 'truth' punch after mindlessly saying it of the third individual that disagrees with you. Stop it.
The passage you quoted when combined with John 13:18-26 only confirms that Yeshua ate BREAD, which in John 13:18 is ARTOS, and this is confirmed by the interpretation of Yeshua himself who says it fulfills scripture:
John 13:18-26 KJV
18. I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread [artos] with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
19. Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.
20. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
21. When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
22. Then the disciples looked one on another, doubting of whom he spake.
23. Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
24. Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.
25. He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?
26. Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
Your interpretation of Matthew 26:23 fails to incorporate this passage.
iouae
Well-known member
Let me qualify my position on eating meat with this. I eat meat sparingly. But meat is not good for all. Your health would probably be better off without modern chemical-ridden meat. The SDA's on average live a few years longer than most. But if you have tasted their food, it must seem like eternity.
I am not trying to force anyone to eat meat, as the following also says.
Romans 14
14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
iouae
Well-known member
This was before the symbols were given, during supper.
So Christ dipped a piece of bread in .......(what did they eat at Passover....) and gave it to Judas to point out the traitor.
At least we are a little closer in that you now concede that Christ was dipping bread into ....????? (gravy??).... and eating with them.
Your previous post with various interpretations had some with Him not eating with the disciples.
Lon
Well-known member
Luke 22:7-8 supports that notion.
iouae
Well-known member
Thanks Lon.
Luke 22
7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
And they ate a meal, not just bread and wine.
And bread and wine take no preparation, the Passover takes a whole day, hence "the day of preparation".
Now you assume there was gravy too? Do you suppose it was some sort of lamb gravy? You brought that forth out of your own imagination and I never "conceded" any such thing.
Funny thing is that right before this Paul says the following and uses "epithumia" in this statement, (the same as Luke says Yeshua spoke in Luke 22:15).
Romans 13:14
14. But put on the Master, Messiah Yeshua, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the epithumias-lusts thereof.
You might want to do a word study on "weak" and "weakness" to see which one from Romans 14:1 Paul actually claims to be. Even this passage you quote from leans away from the direction you have tried to take it into. In fact Romans 14:20 has already been quoted in this thread. Does Paul boast in strength or in weakness?
1 Corinthians 4:10-11
10. We are fools for the sake of Messiah, but you are wise in Messiah; we are weak, but you are strong; you have glory, but we have dishonor.
11. Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwelling-place:
iouae
Well-known member
You choose what they dipped bread into. Maybe it was bread with a piece of lamb dipped in mustard or mint sauce. You choose since I don't mind what it is.
What I do know is that it took a whole afternoon to prepare. They said they were preparing nothing other than the Passover.
And Lev 23 gives instructions to kill and cook the Passover lamb before sunset. Christ was without sin, so He and his disciples kept the following instruction which HE HIMSELF COMMANDED back in Deut 16.
16 Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover unto the Lord thy God: for in the month of Abib the Lord thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night.
2 Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the passover unto the Lord thy God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the Lord shall choose to place his name there....
6 But at the place which the Lord thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.
7 And thou shalt roast and eat it in the place which the Lord thy God shall choose: and thou shalt turn in the morning, and go unto thy tents.
Actually "evening" begins when the sun begins to make its downward trek accross the sky immediately after its midday peak. The latter half of the day is then called "evening" and begins at "the going down of the sun" as written in what you posted. This means that Yeshua could have sat down with his disciples anywhere beginning after midday because the "evening" portion of the day had begun. How long therefore do you suppose the following events might have taken, (if indeed the "man with a picture of water" is not an idiom or an allegory but literal)? How long do you suppose it would have taken the disciples to get into Jerusalem at this time of year if they were not already in the city and had to enter by the gates? Some estimates have it that they would slay some two hundred and fifty thousand lambs and goats at Jerusalem for the Passover duing the first century.
Mark 14:12-17 KJV
12. And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
13. And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.
14. And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
15. And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.
16. And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
17. And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.
Yeshua sits down with his disciples when evening has come, (also in the Matthew account) that is, while the passover lambs were being slaughtered "between the evening(s)". For the same reason it was suggested earlier that you may not even have the correct day. In addition the Essenes, having a strict three hundred and sixty-four day calendar with exactly fifty-two weeks, (and therefore always exactly fifty-two Sabbaths in a year) were one day in difference from the "inner city Jews" that year, (if you know what year it was). Someone was off by a day in their count and it was not Yeshua, his disciples, or the Essenes, and remember that Caiaphas disqualified himself by renting his garments.
And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you." (Luke 22:19-20 NKJV)
Jesus instituted the new Passover symbols after supper. It's these symbols that Jesus refers to as this Passover. Jesus did not keep the Mosaic Passover.
Lon
Well-known member
:nono: You haven't been paying attention. In addition to iouae,'s verses and contributions, Jesus Christ our Lord God and Savior EVEN broke actual bread at that point from the very verse you give...
iouae
Well-known member
Sure Jamie
And when the disciples THEMSELVES as good Jews speak of KILLING the Passover, I am sure they were using it as we do today. "Hey, let's kill this bottle of wine". Or "Let's kill this loaf of bread"
Mark 14:12-17 KJV
12. And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?