Study: Liberals better at thinking outside the box
- Thread starter Jose Fly
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Arthur Brain
Well-known member
This just in: 'Liberals did a study to try and say that liberals are smart and conservatives are stupid.'
I'm conservative, and I find most liberals to be obnoxious idiots who are as easy to refute as political correctness is to mock.
Also
Liberals did a study to say their smart and conservatives are dumb
If you repeat it three times, Obama beams down and gives you a Medal of Honor.
Liberals did a study to say 'their' smart?
They're really not as on the ball as you then eh?
genuineoriginal
New member
Jose Fly
New member
Liberals did a study to say 'their' smart?
They're really not as on the ball as you then eh?
Now that's funny! :rotfl:
PureX
Well-known member
Neither of these ways of thinking are better than the other. There are times and circumstances in which conservative thinking is far more effective and produces a far superior result than liberal thinking. And there are times and circumstances in which liberal thinking is far more effective and produces a far superior result than conservative thinking will. The key to positive and effective thinking and decision-making is to read the conditions accurately, and apply the kind of thinking to them that will best serve us under the circumstances.
What we call conservative thinking is really just an innate proclivity for maintaining and protecting the status quo. Conservative thought is biased in favor of the 'tried and true' ideals and methods of existing, and is innately suspicious of anything different and 'new'. While what we call liberal thinking is just an intrepid proclivity for seeking out new ways of understanding reality, and of interacting with it, better. Where conservatism seeks strength through rigidity, liberalism seeks progress through adaptability. And both of these views and courses of action are logical, reasonable, and valuable to us, so long as they remain in balance, and only vary that balance in proportional response to the specific circumstances.
They need not be seen as 'enemy ideals' of each other. And they should NEVER be viewed as intending to annihilate the other! Pure conservatism would be just as disastrous a mode of being as pure liberalism would be. Both would end in the destruction and dissolution of any being or group of beings that were foolish enough to engage in such irrational extremism.
Our own culture is in grave danger right now because we have allowed the politicians and the media to divide us against each other along exactly these differences in our innate natures, causing many of us to become the kind of one-sided extremists that cannot survive and thrive in the complex social environment of the real world. And it's tearing our nation apart; causing us to become both weak and dysfunctional. It needs to stop. And only we can stop it, by making up our minds not to buy into the endless lies we are hearing about the people on the 'other side' of our own innate bias. They are not on our enemies. They are simply people like ourselves, but who are better suited by their own natures to appreciate and understand the other reasonable and viable way of perceiving and interacting with existence, from our own. And we need to remember, also, that we all have a lot of both of these qualities within us: both the conservative inclination, and the liberal. We have to have both within us to live effectively and reasonably in this world. And all we need to do to reunite with our 'opposition' is simply to notice it's correspondence within our own selves.
What we call conservative thinking is really just an innate proclivity for maintaining and protecting the status quo. Conservative thought is biased in favor of the 'tried and true' ideals and methods of existing, and is innately suspicious of anything different and 'new'. While what we call liberal thinking is just an intrepid proclivity for seeking out new ways of understanding reality, and of interacting with it, better. Where conservatism seeks strength through rigidity, liberalism seeks progress through adaptability. And both of these views and courses of action are logical, reasonable, and valuable to us, so long as they remain in balance, and only vary that balance in proportional response to the specific circumstances.
They need not be seen as 'enemy ideals' of each other. And they should NEVER be viewed as intending to annihilate the other! Pure conservatism would be just as disastrous a mode of being as pure liberalism would be. Both would end in the destruction and dissolution of any being or group of beings that were foolish enough to engage in such irrational extremism.
Our own culture is in grave danger right now because we have allowed the politicians and the media to divide us against each other along exactly these differences in our innate natures, causing many of us to become the kind of one-sided extremists that cannot survive and thrive in the complex social environment of the real world. And it's tearing our nation apart; causing us to become both weak and dysfunctional. It needs to stop. And only we can stop it, by making up our minds not to buy into the endless lies we are hearing about the people on the 'other side' of our own innate bias. They are not on our enemies. They are simply people like ourselves, but who are better suited by their own natures to appreciate and understand the other reasonable and viable way of perceiving and interacting with existence, from our own. And we need to remember, also, that we all have a lot of both of these qualities within us: both the conservative inclination, and the liberal. We have to have both within us to live effectively and reasonably in this world. And all we need to do to reunite with our 'opposition' is simply to notice it's correspondence within our own selves.
Jose Fly
New member
Again, the study identified two general ways of problem-solving (stepwise and intuitive). Both liberals and conservatives utilized the stepwise method, but liberals also used the intuitive method whereas conservatives didn't.
IOW, liberals have (and use) more tools in their problem-solving toolbox.
Jose Fly
New member
Liberals latch on to every study and so called statistic they can find regardless of accuracy or intensive measure.
So why am I not surprised that they would be asinine enough to believe that they are smarter than conservatives based on a ham handed study by no doubt liberal alumni
PureX
Well-known member
I use tools all the time. I have cabinets full of them: all kinds. Yet interestingly enough, I find that I have rarely had cause or reason to use more than one of them at a time. Nor to use one for a purpose far outside that which it was intended.
As an artist, I find intuition to be an indispensable tool. But although it might occasionally be useful to a supreme court judge in his private life, I suspect it's not a tool we'd want them to use on the job. The point being that both conservatism and liberalism have their value, and circumstance in which that value will be more evident, or less evident. So that the key is to apply that which produces the greatest value to the circumstances through which that value will be most evident.
Also, it's important to recognize that much of what's involved in living our lives is NOT 'problem-solving', but simply follow-through.
Jose Fly
New member
Liberals latch on to every study and so called statistic they can find regardless of accuracy or intensive measure.
So why am I not surprised that they would be asinine enough to believe that they are smarter than conservatives based on a ham handed study by no doubt liberal alumni
And as we've seen at ToL countless times, conservatives mindlessly wave away any reality that isn't what they want it to be.
Jose Fly
New member
That doesn't really have any bearing on this study. It's not about using more than one tool at a time or using tools for purposes for which they're not intended.
It's about how many tools you have in your box to begin with.
While I appreciate your sense of fairness, again both conservatives and liberals use the stepwise method, so you can't label that as conservative thinking.
The study shows that both groups use tool A, but liberals also use tool B whereas conservatives don't.
To a certain extent, yes.
PureX
Well-known member
This is a whole different issue. To put it bluntly: stupid people are seldom innately stupid. They are stupid because they are innately dishonest, and refuse to acknowledge the degree to which they ARE stupid. Thus, they can never effectively address their stupidity, and take steps to rectify it. While smart people aren't necessarily innately smarter than anyone else; they are simply honest enough to acknowledge the degree to which they are stupid, and therefor have become willing to work at rectifying that shortcoming to the degree that they are able.Liberals latch on to every study and so called statistic they can find regardless of accuracy or intensive measure.
So why am I not surprised that they would be asinine enough to believe that they are smarter than conservatives based on a ham handed study by no doubt liberal alumni
We have to be honest enough to recognize our stupidity, to become willing to learn how to be smarter. Stupid people lack honesty … not intelligence. And it's why we are constantly seeing stupid people bad-mouthing smart people (here and elsewhere). That's what dishonest people do when they can't face their own dishonesty: they project it onto everyone else, and then accuse them of being the dishonest ones, so they won't have to see it in themselves.
They are cowards.
You are an intelligent person. But please don't make the mistake of allowing yourself to become stupid through the weakness of such dishonesty. This study is correct, the conservative mind-set does tend to lack intuition. Just as it also tends to lack empathy and curiosity. But almost no human being is born purely conservative or purely liberal in their innate intellectual inclinations. So that we all possess the 'tools' used by both mind-sets. But to access those tools and use them effectively we have to be willing to recognize that we are lacking them, presently. And for many among us, egotism will not allow them to do that. And so they'll remain deficient.
They remain stupid.
The only reason you agree with it is because you are a liberal. Every liberal study to you is 'accurate'.
I read a study that the religious are more intuitive and atheists are more analytical.
That study is stupid too, and a contradiction to the one presented here.
And I can guarantee you'd agree with either/or if you didn't know both existed.
You liberals don't know how to do anything except call conservatives stupid and mock their creation views, railroad them every chance one can on morals, slander, and so on.
You all should be embarrassed for these nonsense 'studies'.
LondonCalling
New member
I’m Liberal as Liberal gets. You should see my apartment on a Saturday night…
I’m Conservative on Fiscal matters, profoundly Progressive on Monetary Policy, Libertarian on Drug Policy, Federalist on Grand Politics, and Socialist by Nature. And so it goes on.
But. Well. Semantics.
You started that diatribe well, pointing out that there’s bias in every direction. Then killed it with starting your last paragraph with ‘You Liberals’. Two steps forward, one giant leap backward.
Of course Liberals are better at thinking ‘Outside of the Box’. That’s what they (we) do. Conservatives are ostensibly happy with the box as it is (or rather in some halcyon illusion of what it was, or hilariously, could have been). Liberals are Progressive (in that they view change as a requirement), and wish to upset the Status Quo. Conservatives wish to, well, conserve it. Rocket science, this is not.
I run a company. There’s more than 100 people that depend on me not doing something stupid. So I have a glimmer of understanding of how to hedge my bias against my employee’s (and therefore my own) interest. It is not easy. My company operates in what is a Conservative sector (Energy), and it’s successful because I’m Liberal (or at least non-conservative). My company disrupts. It’s innovative. So it makes money. It makes money because the majority of the competition is Conservative, and therefore lethargic.
This is not a magic pill.
The real question to Conservatives is this: “What are you trying to conserve?”
And then, “Why?”
It doesn’t help that on the American side of the Pond, you’ve managed to get to the point that it’s a binary choice between ‘Liberal and ‘Conservative’ when in reality it’s a multiplicity of continuum that intersect and have different weighting.
An interesting thought for Conservatives is China.
A Communist state using Capitalist modes in the tested models of Conservative governance. It’s funny, right? But it’s stalling. It’s stalling because Capitalism relies on making new value, and new value is a Liberal field. Conservatives by definition cannot create new value (their expertise lies in refining existing value).
It’s a dramatic irony, most Conservatives are Capitalist, and most simply do not understand how that game works in a globalised market. The game you want everyone to play is now entering a phase which you cannot control (because the refinement of old value is reaching peak).
That’s why Liberals call Conservative stupid. It’s because there’s no obvious outlet of Conservatism which is mapping out how to drive markets beyond where they are, they’re all ostensibly about the conservation of wealth pots. Well, there’s young people who are not having any of that behaviour (because there’s no slices left for them).
I’m not even sure why there’s any surprise in this. Most of the Grand Old Dinosaurs I come across in my sector are happy to shake my hand and express a little jealousy that I exist in a time to be able to do things they’d have loved to have done, were it not for those Conservative shareholders…
Liberals think they 'think outside the box' as opposed to conservatives, and so they make a stupid study on it to pretend the ironic insult is some proven fact.
Just another rank liberal shenanigan along with everything else. They see being a politically correct, Stockholm syndrome ridden, social fatalism as 'thinking outside the box'.
Just another rank liberal shenanigan along with everything else. They see being a politically correct, Stockholm syndrome ridden, social fatalism as 'thinking outside the box'.
LondonCalling
New member
Agreed that the study is bias. That’s the point I’m trying to make.
It’s bias in a context. That’s the question I’m asking you to ask yourself. If you’re ‘Conservative’, what are you conserving?
The study is the study. The grouping, the people who were subject to it are all shifted to the bias of the study lead. Fine. It makes no difference in aggregate. The evidence is clear. Liberal thinking is a strident success in economic terms. Pick a company started after 1998. Look at who runs it and why. Make a chart of who’s ‘winning’.
It’s all within a context, it’s all a muddied water, but it’s not hard to see the trend. Surely.
If you’re conservative, why would you see that not ‘thinking outside of the box’ is an insult? Conservatism is the art of thinking better within the confines of the box.
brewmama
New member
These kinds of "scientific studies" never address the phenomenon of liberals who wake up, think "outside the box", or finally realize what a crock of lies they have been fed, and therefore become conservative. There are plenty, both me and my husband included. We used to be brain dead robotic liberals. But somehow you are convinced that now our brains are wired differently, or don't think as well, or something, and think it is somehow scientific. Just part and parcel of the crock.
LondonCalling
New member
Well, yes.
Not all new ideas are good ideas.
My company works because it's a good idea. Yours didn't because...
Should you flat out suck at being innovative (it's not for everyone), you're going to have a rougher time of it. If you're just a bit middle ground (which, obviously most people are), you'll be temporarily disillusioned, but that's life.
Ask yourself, would you rather be useless in Germany or America?
Who's thinking outside of which box now?
brewmama
New member
I don't know who is. And I don't even know what point you are trying to make. Usually the rich are maligned as being conservative, or vice versa, but you seem to imply that they are "innovative," and therefore liberal. Which is it?
LondonCalling
New member
Neither.
The innovative will innovate. What I’m saying is that the space for innovation currently resides mainly in the ‘Liberal’ camp.
The ‘Old Money’ in modern terms resides in two camps. The Imperial, and the Industrial. These two camps are the root of Conservative thinking. They produced the idea that if you just work hard (at whatever) you’ll progress, and do well. The American Dream, if you will.
That does not work. It is no longer true (if it ever was).
There’s too many people, too few jobs.
Which requires a social safety net.
The Old Model (the Conservative Ideal) of work hard and get rewarded is just gone. It’s gone to the developing economies.
Which means the rich economies of the West need to re-adjust.
We need to recognise that we have a workforce who are trained for manual labour which is no longer cost effective. We need to retrain.
We need to recognise that inward migration is a reality.
We need to pay our workforce more.
We need, therefore to demand more from our workforce, so we need to be willing to pay to train them to be innovative.
We need to compete.
And we need to compete hard.
When people fall out of that struggle, we need to protect them, nurture them, and build them back up. And we need to regognise that there will be people who cannot be part of the game (because they're just too slow), and look after them too.
It’s that last bit that Conservatives don’t quite get. This is a Long Game.