Spiritual Israel

[Lazy afternoon]

You quote the same verse from chap. 11 to ad nauseam and ignore everything else.

No.

You misread my point.

The gentiles who believe come into the elect Israel of God.

LA

 

[Epoisses]

No.

You misread my point.

The gentiles who believe come into the elect Israel of God.

LA

Jews and Gentiles who believe become part of the Israel of God. Someone born as an ethnic Jew has to be converted as well. They don't get a pass just because they have the right flesh. The whole NT speaks about the promises going to the children of faith not the children of the flesh.

 

[clefty]

Jews and Gentiles who believe become part of the Israel of God. Someone born as an ethnic Jew has to be converted as well. They don't get a pass just because they have the right flesh. The whole NT speaks about the promises going to the children of faith not the children of the flesh.

Even those not of Jacob came out of Egypt...and all were under one law...

Flesh profits NOTHING...Ascribing real power to symbols and images is exactly idolatry...the bronze serpent was to be viewed in order to be healed...later it was worshipped in idolatry...the temple itself was a tool...with His Spirit it was useful but without this Spirit it is just a pile of rocks...the land is no longer holy...when the He returns it will be again...but He didn't ask me to build Him a temple...as flesh profits nothing...

But some claim eating His literal flesh makes us closer to Him...not ironic these same would have us fight and die to save that land again...as if it were holy...

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Jews and Gentiles who believe become part of the Israel of God. Someone born as an ethnic Jew has to be converted as well. They don't get a pass just because they have the right flesh. The whole NT speaks about the promises going to the children of faith not the children of the flesh.

That is what I said.

LA

 

[meshak]

That is what I said.

LA

I misread your post too, it seems.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

: ) bumping because I don't care who's thread this Hack Job Replacement garbage gets theologically slaughtered on.

 

[Epoisses]

Even those not of Jacob came out of Egypt...and all were under one law...

Flesh profits NOTHING...Ascribing real power to symbols and images is exactly idolatry...the bronze serpent was to be viewed in order to be healed...later it was worshipped in idolatry...the temple itself was a tool...with His Spirit it was useful and without this Spirit it is put a pile of rocks...the land is no longer holy...when the He returns it will be again...but He didn't ask me to build Him a temple...as flesh profits...

But some claim eating His literal flesh makes us closer to Him...not ironic these same would have us fight and die to save that land again...

I agree, I think!?!

 

[Epoisses]

The seven churches of Revelation are the next stop in our studies on Spiritual Israel. Contrary to popular historical belief, the seven churches do not represent seven ages of the history of the church. Nowhere can this even be hinted at by the text itself. This belief may have been popular in Martin Luther’s day but it has long since fallen out of fashion. The seven churches were first and foremost seven churches that existed in the 1st century in Asia minor or modern day Turkey. There are also verses that suggest these churches may have counterparts in the last days when Satan sets up his seat or throne on earth, the imminent language of holding fast till the coming of Jesus as a thief in the night and the protection that he offers during the hour of temptation that will come upon the whole world. The lessons of each church are applicable to Christians of all ages and especially to the last generation who will see them fulfilled before their very eyes.

Jesus presents himself as walking among the seven golden candlesticks with each one representing a church. In the temple the Menorah was a seven branched candlestick similar to what we have here but not quite the same. The Menorah was a single candlestick with seven branches while the seven golden candlesticks are separate perhaps indicating that the original light to the Jewish people is now multiplied to the Gentiles. This is not the only Jewish symbol being applied to the church. The overcomers from Pergamos are allowed to eat the hidden manna, the overcomers from Philadelphia will be made like pillars in the temple of God and also the Philadelphians have the Father’s name written in their foreheads just like the twelve tribes of the 144,000. Far from the church and Israel being separate and distinct, we see here that they share in the blessings of God together. The church is the spiritual fulfillment of Israel where one day both Jews and Gentiles will live in the same city or the new Jerusalem.

The 144,000 have been completely divorced from the church by modern Protestant Christianity but as we have already seen they both share the seal of God or the name of the Father. Some other similarities between the two are that the 144,000 are said to be the first fruits unto God and the Lamb. To the ancient agrarian mindset the first fruits were a sampling of the main harvest. The great multitude which are found in the same chapter are most likely this harvest and are said to come from all nations, peoples and languages. So the twelve spiritual tribes are comprised of the same - Jewish and Gentile believers with circumcised hearts. Lastly the 144,000 have not been defiled by women and are virgins. All throughout the OT God likened idolatry to spiritual fornication or adultery. The message that goes to the world in the last days will be to come out of Babylon and not to partake of her sins. The 144,000 have not committed spiritual fornication with Babylon and in this sense only could they be said to be virgins.

Many dispensational Christians view the book of Revelation as pertaining to the church until the end of chapter 3 and after this it’s all about ethnic Israel. Is this an accurate picture of the last days with the church being raptured out and ethnic Israel evangelizing the whole world during the tribulation? No it’s a fairy tale and when their rapture bus blows an engine and they are stuck in the tribulation with everyone else their faith will be shattered and will become easy pickins for the beast and his image.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

[MENTION=16832]pete[/MENTION]rpan... wait... [MENTION=14857]Epoisses[/MENTION]

What's your rebuttal to this?

John 16:12 “I still have many things to tell you, but you can’t bear them now.

Luke 21:20 “However, when you see Yerushalayim surrounded by armies, then you are to understand that she is about to be destroyed.

Luke 21:21-23 Those in Y’hudah must escape to the hills, those inside the city must get out, and those in the country must not enter it. For these are the days of vengeance, when everything that has been written in the Tanakh will come true. What a terrible time it will be for pregnant women and nursing mothers! For there will be great distress in the Land and judgment on the people.

Luke 21:4 Some will fall by the edge of the sword, others will be carried into all the countries of the Goyim, and Yerushalayim will be trampled down by the Goyim until the age of the Goyim has run its course. Romans 11:24-27 For if you were cut out of what is by nature a wild olive tree and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, ! For, brothers, I want you to understand this truth which God formerly concealed but has now revealed, so that you won’t imagine you know more than you actually do. It is that stoniness, to a degree, has come upon Isra’el, until the Gentile world enters in its fullness; and that it is in this way that all Isra’el will be saved. As the Tanakh says, “Out of Tziyon will come the Redeemer; he will turn away ungodliness from Ya‘akov and this will be my covenant with them, . . . when I take away their sins.”

Luke 21:27-28 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with tremendous power and glory. When these things start to happen, stand up and hold your heads high; because you are about to be liberated!”

Acts 1:10-12 As they were staring into the sky after him, suddenly they saw two men dressed in white standing next to them. The men said, “You Galileans! Why are you standing, staring into space? This Yeshua, who has been taken away from you into heaven, will come back to you in just the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” Then they returned the Shabbat-walk distance from the Mount of Olives to Yerushalayim.

Zechariah 14:2-5 “For I will gather all the nations against Yerushalayim for war. The city will be taken, the houses will be rifled, the women will be raped, and half the city will go into exile; but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city.” Then Adonai will go out and fight against those nations, fighting as on a day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which lies to the east of Yerushalayim; and the Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, to make a huge valley. Half of the mountain will move toward the north, and half of it toward the south. You will flee to the valley in the mountains, for the valley in the mountains will reach to Atzel. You will flee, just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of ‘Uziyah king of Y’hudah. Then Adonai my God will come to you with all the holy ones.

Joel 4:9-12 “Proclaim this among the nations: ‘Prepare for war! Rouse the warriors! Let all the fighting men approach and attack.’ Hammer your plow-blades into swords and your pruning-knives into spears. Let the weak say, ‘I am strong.’ Hurry, come, you surrounding nations, gather yourselves together!” Bring your warriors down, Adonai! “Let the nations be roused and come up to the Valley of Y’hoshafat Adonai judges. For there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations.”

Joel 4:1-2,3 “For then, at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Y’hudah and Yerushalayim, I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Y’hoshafat Adonai judges. I will enter into judgment there for my people, my heritage Isra’el, whom they scattered among the nations; then they divided my land. 2:32 At that time, whoever calls on the name of Adonai will be saved. For in Mount Tziyon and Yerushalayim there will be those who escape, as Adonai has promised; among the survivors will be those whom Adonai has called.

Revelation 20:11-15 Next I saw a great white throne and the One sitting on it. Earth and heaven fled from his presence, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, both great and small, standing in front of the throne. Books were opened; and another book was opened, the Book of Life; and the dead were judged from what was written in the books, according to what they had done. The sea gave up the dead in it; and Death and Sh’ol gave up the dead in them; and they were judged, each according to what he had done. Then Death and Sh’ol were hurled into the lake of fire. This is the second death — the lake of fire. Anyone whose name was not found written in the Book of Life was hurled into the lake of fire.

Joel 2:1-3 Joel 4:9-12 “Blow the shofar in Tziyon! Sound an alarm on my holy mountain!” Let all living in the land tremble, for the Day of Adonai is coming! It’s upon us! — a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick fog; a great and mighty horde is spreading like blackness over the mountains. There has never been anything like it, nor will there ever be again, not even after the years of many generations. Ahead of them a fire devours, behind them a flame consumes; ahead the land is like Gan-‘Eden, behind them a desert waste. From them there is no escape. “Proclaim this among the nations: ‘Prepare for war! Rouse the warriors! Let all the fighting men approach and attack.’ Hammer your plow-blades into swords and your pruning-knives into spears. Let the weak say, ‘I am strong.’ Hurry, come, you surrounding nations, gather yourselves together!” Bring your warriors down, Adonai! “Let the nations be roused and come up to the Valley of Y’hoshafat Adonai judges. For there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations.”

Revelation 21:3-4, 22-23 I heard a loud voice from the throne say, “See! God’s Sh’khinah is with mankind, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and he himself, God-with-them, will be their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will no longer be any death; and there will no longer be any mourning, crying or pain; because the old order has passed away.” I saw no Temple in the city, for Adonai, God of heaven’s armies, is its Temple, as is the Lamb. The city has no need for the sun or the moon to shine on it, because God’s Sh’khinah gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

Joel 3:5 Joel 2:27 2:32 At that time, whoever calls on the name of Adonai will be saved. For in Mount Tziyon and Yerushalayim there will be those who escape, as Adonai has promised; among the survivors will be those whom Adonai has called. You will know that I am with Isra’el and that I am Adonai your God, and that there is no other. Then my people will never again be shamed.

 

[clefty]

The seven churches of Revelation are the next stop in our studies on Spiritual Israel. Contrary to popular historical belief, the seven churches do not represent seven ages of the history of the church. Nowhere can this even be hinted at by the text itself. This belief may have been popular in Martin Luther’s day but it has long since fallen out of fashion. The seven churches were first and foremost seven churches that existed in the 1st century in Asia minor or modern day Turkey. There are also verses that suggest these churches may have counterparts in the last days when Satan sets up his seat or throne on earth, the imminent language of holding fast till the coming of Jesus as a thief in the night and the protection that he offers during the hour of temptation that will come upon the whole world. The lessons of each church are applicable to Christians of all ages and especially to the last generation who will see them fulfilled before their very eyes.

Jesus presents himself as walking among the seven golden candlesticks with each one representing a church. In the temple the Menorah was a seven branched candlestick similar to what we have here but not quite the same. The Menorah was a single candlestick with seven branches while the seven golden candlesticks are separate perhaps indicating that the original light to the Jewish people is now multiplied to the Gentiles. This is not the only Jewish symbol being applied to the church. The overcomers from Pergamos are allowed to eat the hidden manna, the overcomers from Philadelphia will be made like pillars in the temple of God and also the Philadelphians have the Father’s name written in their foreheads just like the twelve tribes of the 144,000. Far from the church and Israel being separate and distinct, we see here that they share in the blessings of God together. The church is the spiritual fulfillment of Israel where one day both Jews and Gentiles will live in the same city or the new Jerusalem.

The 144,000 have been completely divorced from the church by modern Protestant Christianity but as we have already seen they both share the seal of God or the name of the Father. Some other similarities between the two are that the 144,000 are said to be the first fruits unto God and the Lamb. To the ancient agrarian mindset the first fruits were a sampling of the main harvest. The great multitude which are found in the same chapter are most likely this harvest and are said to come from all nations, peoples and languages. So the twelve spiritual tribes are comprised of the same - Jewish and Gentile believers with circumcised hearts. Lastly the 144,000 have not been defiled by women and are virgins. All throughout the OT God likened idolatry to spiritual fornication or adultery. The message that goes to the world in the last days will be to come out of Babylon and not to partake of her sins. The 144,000 have not committed spiritual fornication with Babylon and in this sense only could they be said to be virgins.

Many dispensational Christians view the book of Revelation as pertaining to the church until the end of chapter 3 and after this it’s all about ethnic Israel. Is this an accurate picture of the last days with the church being raptured out and ethnic Israel evangelizing the whole world during the tribulation? No it’s a fairy tale and when their rapture bus blows an engine and they are stuck in the tribulation with everyone else their faith will be shattered and will become easy pickins for the beast and his image.

Of course the Church had to make the seven other churches in revelations symbolic of ages and not literal churches...as none of them were founded by Peter

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Of course the Church had to make the seven other churches in revelations symbolic of ages and not literal churches...as none of them were founded by Peter

Peter Pan and his silver dagger?

Any response to the scripture I just posted?

 

[clefty]

Peter Pan and his silver dagger?

Any response to the scripture I just posted?

Lots of big letters and in red...

All that drama is certainly what Zionists think needs to be done to remind Him where to land and park His New Jerusalem...

Luckily about all that He doesn't need me to show Him where or when...certainly not why...

As if He doesn't know who His people are...the obedient ones...even long before Israel was well, but a man...


Nope He doesn't need any of it as there is no longer need for walls to divide the Jew from the rest...don't know why you insiste to rebuild them...no wait yes I do...

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Lots of big letters and in red...

All that drama is certainly what Zionists think needs to be done to remind Him where to land and park His New Jerusalem...

Luckily about all that He doesn't need me to show Him where or when...certainly not why...

As if He doesn't know who His people are...the obedient ones...even long before Israel was well, but a man...


Nope He doesn't need any of it as there is no longer need for walls to divide the Jew from the rest...don't know why you insiste to rebuild them...no wait yes I do...

No human needed... It's written in God's Scripture and Annointed by JC. John 5:39

 

[clefty]

No human needed... It's written in God's Scripture and Annointed by JC. John 5:39

Yup so just wait and let Him build...

We need only to spread the good news gospel teaching and baptizing the nations...into it His kingdom not of those world...certainly not the Zionist apoState...


Sadly the Christian crusade is to rebuild and make the kingdom of god...another god...one which did not have a son...an ancient conspiracy to supplant for certain...found long ago in Judah...supplanter being Jacob's name before Israel...

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Yup so just wait and let Him build...

We need only to spread the good news gospel teaching and baptizing the nations...into it His kingdom not of those world...certainly not the Zionist apoState...


Sadly the Christian crusade is to rebuild and make the kingdom of god...another god...one which did not have a son...an ancient conspiracy to supplant for certain...found long ago in Judah...supplanter being Jacob's name before Israel...

I desire no rebuilding. The true Temple of YHWH wasn't built with Human hands.

I desire the full and unfettered gospel to be proclaimed to all.

Do you understand?

 

[clefty]

I desire no rebuilding. The true Temple of YHWH wasn't built with Human hands.

I desire the full and unfettered gospel to be proclaimed to all.

Do you understand?

Oh sure THAT I do understands...and agree

It's just your attempts with big red words, flags, and shield* to support those who were already rejected before and still remain idolatrous to rebuild continues to echo in my eyes...

*Rothschild

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Oh sure THAT I do understands...and agree

It's just your attempts with big red words, flags, and shield* to support those who were already rejected before and still remain idolatrous to rebuild continues to echo in my eyes...

*Rothschild

Tools of God for the bigger purpose. Israel is real! The chess board is set. Jews are integral to the game. The mercy of God will pierce the darkest day. Jesus... the true Temple of YHWH... has a show stopper planned.

; )

It's all there in the Good 66!

 

[clefty]

Tools of God for the bigger purpose. Israel is real! The chess board is set. Jews are integral to the game. The mercy of God will pierce the darkest day. Jesus... the true Temple of YHWH... has a show stopper planned.

; )

It's all there in the Good 66!

Oh sure...but when He used Nebuchadnezzar as a tool for a bigger purpose that does not mean I am to support Babylon...

Hope you keep it to 66 and not keep supporting the 666...lol

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Oh sure...but when He used Nebuchadnezzar as a tool for a bigger purpose that does not mean I am to support Babylon...

Hope you keep it to 66 and not keep supporting the 666...lol

Israel isn't Babylon.

Where was the original Babylon located... if expressed with today's geographical names?

 

[Epoisses]

Israel isn't Babylon.

Where was the original Babylon located... if expressed with today's geographical names?

Jerusalem is Babylon the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. The merchandise of Babylon in Rev. 18 is an exact listing of the articles that went into the construction of the Jewish temple that will be rebuilt in the last days to deceive the world. The Law shall go forth out of Zion and all the world will bow down to mother Jerusalem. Practically the whole world bows already.