ECT Speaking in tongues

[Danoh]

Believers are supposed to hate EVERY false way.

One of these two ways is false.

Testing all things to find out which side is lying about Him -- by proving either that He's not giving the sign gifts OR that He is still giving them -- can't possibly be a bad thing. Either result would glorify Him because it would be TRUE.

But you obviously don't want to go there. None of you do. We know why, and it's got nothing to do with defending God's honor.

Bye.

And you and those just like you just as obviously never notice the three fingers ever pointing back at you; that you take issue when your one-sideness is pointed out.

Like that one Legalist MAD I met years ago.

First word out my mouth - "Hi! "

His reply "Of course we know that Paul did not write Hebrews..."

Standing next to him...one of the more well known names within "Mid-Acts."

And the older one gets, the more set in both their nonsense in this, and their blindness to it's fact.

Wanna set em off - point out their obvious bondage to them.

I was at a secular business lunch with a fellow MAD who was then up in his senior years.

A Legalist MAD through and through; out of nowhere, he pulls out his Bible and begins to go into how that "only Paul's Epistles are for us today!"

At a secular business luncheon.

The point?

The problem with such is that they never look at themselves.

Look at how easy it is to set off most of the MADs on TOL.

Merely hold a different view.

No matter how you post it -soft or hard.

No matter how seemingly insignificant.

Right off, the TOL Legalist MAD Club most (not all) MADs on TOL are obviously members off - are all over the individual.

So blind to their would be bondage on others, that to point it out to them is to find them one's enemy...

Even as they not only go on and on in their same "one for all, and all for one" nonsense, but ask what it is one is going on about them...

At the same time that they attempt to bait such an individual into their own mess with them even further..

But whistle blowers have always been concluded enemies by those they had once believed were their own :chuckle:

History shows I am in good company...

 

[TweetyBird]

You know a question I never see answered?

What needful thing could God reveal today via a tongues talker that He didn't already tell us in the Bible?

I have often wondered that myself. Of course Pente is all into the "private revelations" through others and as long as it "agrees" with Scripture, then it's of God. Of course it "agrees with Scripture" as they interpret it. Nothing new under the sun .. :idea:

 

[lifeisgood]

I don't know of any case where any tongue talker today has been proven to be a true biblical tongue talker.

I have never investigated either case.

If you can so easily say that a lot of tongue talkers today are fake, then there has to be a way to distinguish which is fake and which isn't fake.

I believe the Holy Spirit will make it obvious.
How? You know how the Holy Spirit speaks to you, I would hope.

 

[TweetyBird]

Oh, c'mon Christian brothers and sisters, get off the 'dream thingy', 'speaking in tongues thingy', etc. freeway.

I cannot believe that you guys are still in that freeway that takes lost people no where and make Christians look foolish.

Does it really matter, brothers and sisters, if Nabeel said he was 'seated' or he was 'standing'?
Would it not be better if we rejoice like the Angels rejoiced when we were saved by God?

David Wood said that Nabeel said that he was 'seated' when he told him the 'dream'.
William Lane Craig said in one of his conferences that 2 x 2 = 5. Yeah, please go and waste your time finding out if it is true or not so that you can go to sleep tonight just to make sure that you are right and he is wrong.

Satan is having a field day and Christians are at a loss for an answer 'cause instead of Christ Jesus and His finished legal work at the Cross of Calvary, they engage in finding out if they agree with someone's else testimony, just in case they can be tripped and be told, 'no, you are not saved, because that is not the way God saves anyone. God only saves anyone like this...'. Denying God of His glory, and His power, and His honor.

How sad. How sad indeed. How sad that instead of giving glory to God for Nabeel's salvation (or anyone else's) some have to make sure they agree with their testimony.

No wonder the world is laughing at the Christian world.




P.S.: Have at it guys. Waste your time. I will only respond if there is something constructive to be had.

P.S.S.: Praise God for saving Nabeel, dream or no dream, seated or stating, Muslim or no Muslim, etc., etc., etc.

P.S.S.S.: Please get off the 'suppose' dream thingy highway.

His dream was not about Christ crucified. You are shooting yourself in the foot. So yes, satan is having a field day while his minions pretend to be Jesus in people's dreams. Remember what Paul said >>>> that satan transforms himself into an angel of light and so to his ministers ...

 

[lifeisgood]

His dream was not about Christ crucified. You are shooting yourself in the foot. So yes, satan is having a field day pretending to be Jesus in people's dreams.

Another one in the 'dream thingy' freeway. Never said it was.

Again, I do not care if someone comes to me and tells me that they had a 'dream' about Jesus talking to them or whatever words they present to me.

I will immediately IGNORE the dream and talk about Christ Jesus and His finished legal work on the Cross of Calvary.

 

[TweetyBird]

And you are entitled to believe that, GM.

I cannot for the life of me tell someone else that what is happening to them is not true.
Who am I to tell someone, e.g., 'Well, God did not heal you because God does not heal today'? Who am I? Who am I to do that?

A lot of fake experiences happen to people that they believe is God. The apparitions of Mary have also healed people.

The majority here has not said that God does not heal. But the gift of healing was given only to the apostles and 2 men that they laid hands on. No other Christians were given this gift as we see after Pentecost.

I simply break out in praises giving God the glory due Him, the honor due Him, the power due Him.

All power, glory, and honor is due Him whether or not someone is healed. Yes, God heals today - He never stopped healing people since creation.

For the life of me, 'Who am I to tell someone that what happened to them is a lie?' Who am I?

Like someone told me and got me to go back to Scripture and find the truth, and then start digging out what those who started the movement taught - do they agree with the Bible - do their lives reflect a committed life to the Lord - check out the fruit which has to be grounded in all goodness and truth. It is a dreadful thing to be deceived. I can't take back what happened to me, but I can shout from the treetops that the "gift of healing movement" today is false.

BTW, GM, I agree with you in that the emphasis must be preach the Grace Gospel and I will add that we ought to get off the 'other thingys' freeway.

The emphasis is Jesus Christ, crucified. You seem to be all over the place and accepting things that are not of God.

 

[Danoh]

Another one in the 'dream thingy' freeway. Never said it was.

Again, I do not care if someone comes to me and tells me that they had a 'dream' about Jesus talking to them or whatever words they present to me.

I will immediately IGNORE the dream and talk about Christ Jesus and His finished legal work on the Cross of Calvary.

Spot on.

:thumb:

 

[lifeisgood]

A lot of fake experiences happen to people that they believe is God. The apparitions of Mary have also healed people.

The other night I saw a smilie face on my toasted bread. Does that count?

The majority here has not said that God does not heal.

However, in the context of 'my' conversation that has been the implication. Someone said, I can't remember who, that as he knows that as one gift of the Spirit is gone then all of His gifts are gone.

But the gift of healing was given only to the apostles and 2 men that they laid hands on. No other Christians were given this gift as we see after Pentecost.

So, go tell those who have been healed by God, and they know without a shadow of a doubt that only God could have healed them, that they are lying.

 

[TweetyBird]

I have never investigated either case.



I believe the Holy Spirit will make it obvious.
How? You know how the Holy Spirit speaks to you, I would hope.

If what you think is the Holy Spirit is making it obvious, then you can still be deceived. God gave us His written words - that is how one discerns good from evil. And He has told us that we need to study a thing out. That does not mean do a "spirit check" which more than likely is just the flesh reacting to what you want to believe. You have to do some actual research on when and why the tongues and gift movement got started and spread back in the early 20th century. Without that knowledge, you are just swimming in a mystic pool filled with feely touchy doctrines.

 

[lifeisgood]

Like someone told me and got me to go back to Scripture and find the truth. It is a dreadful thing to be deceived.

Yes, it is dreadful thing to be deceived.

Keep your eyes on Christ Jesus and His finished legal work on the Cross of Calvary and it will be near to impossible for a Christian to be deceived. It is only when a Christian takes his/her eyes off Christ and Him crucified that the problem arises.

I can't take back what happened to me, but I can shout from the treetops that the "gift of healing movement" today is false.

I do not know what happened to you; however, that does not deny that God can and does heal today.

 

[lifeisgood]

The emphasis is Jesus Christ, crucified.

Absolutely correct.

You seem to be all over the place and accepting things that are not of God.

That is only because you are in the ‘dream thingy’ freeway.

 

[TweetyBird]

The other night I saw a smilie face on my toasted bread.

I saw a cat with the heart shaped pattern in its fur.

However, in the context of 'my' conversation that has been the implication. Someone said, I can't remember who, that as he knows that as one gift of the Spirit is gone then all of His gifts are gone.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that God heals miraculously today and has never stopped since creation.

So, go tell those who have been healed by God, and they know without a shadow of a doubt that only God could have healed them, that they are lying.

Never said that. We are talking two completely different things. You are referring to the gift of healing - which was given to the apostles as given to them by Christ - to speak or lay hands on people and they were immediately healed. I am referring to the power of God, all by Himself to heal and deliver people without man's help or the gifts. You are equating healing by some mystical process through mankind. I am equating healing by God regardless of prayer, hope, faith, belief, or gifts, and whether or not a person healed in a child of God though Christ or an unbeliever. God heals according to His will to the good and the wicked alike, to the believer and unbeliever alike. And often the one being healed does not even know that it was by God's hand. That is why it's best just to stick to God's will on the matter.

 

[lifeisgood]

If what you think is the Holy Spirit is making it obvious, then you can still be deceived. God gave us His written words - that is how one discerns good from evil. And He has told us that we need to study a thing out. That does not mean do a "spirit check" which more than likely is just the flesh reacting to what you want to believe. You have to do some actual research on when and why the tongues and gift movement got started and spread back in the early 20th century. Without that knowledge, you are just swimming in a mystic pool filled with feely touchy doctrines.

I am not into 'movements', TB. I know some emphasize 'movements'. I ignore them the same I ignore the 'dream thingy' that someone can come and tell me about it.

Being that I believe that Christ Jesus is the SAME yesterday, and He is the SAME today, and He is the SAME tomorrow, and He is the SAME the day after ad infinitum, then when it is His Will, He will do whatever He desires, be it 'healing', 'speaking in tongues', etc., in these our modern times.

 

[TweetyBird]

Yes, it is dreadful thing to be deceived.

Keep your eyes on Christ Jesus and His finished legal work on the Cross of Calvary and it will be near to impossible for a Christian to be deceived. It is only when a Christian takes his/her eyes off Christ and Him crucified that the problem arises.

Peter warned us that the devil goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour. Peter should know. If you think you won't be deceived - you have just opened up the door for it. One could ask, with all the winds of doctrine you have posted, how do you think you have not been deceived?

I do not know what happened to you; however, that does not deny that God can and does heal today.

I don't think you are paying any attention to what I have posted.

 

[lifeisgood]

I saw a cat with the heart shaped pattern in its fur.

Awesome! :chuckle:

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that God heals miraculously today and has never stopped since creation.

Never said it did.

Never said that. We are talking two completely different things. You are referring to the gift of healing - which was given to the apostles as given to them by Christ - to speak or lay hands on people and they were immediately healed. I am referring to the power of God, all by Himself to heal and deliver people without man's help or the gifts. You are equating healing by some mystical process through mankind. I am equating healing by God regardless of prayer, hope, faith, belief, or gifts, and whether or not a person healed in a child of God though Christ or an unbeliever. God heals according to His will to the good and the wicked alike, to the believer and unbeliever alike. And often the one being healed does not even know that it was by God's hand. That is why it's best just to stick to God's will on the matter.

Yes, we are talking about two different things and that is what confuses many when speaking with them.

God can do anything, IMO, whenever He wants it, to whomever He wants, when He wants it, and how He wants it and that is what I was talking about in response to the 'implication' within 'my' conversation with someone else that God does not heal today, which I vehemently disagree with.

I simply get out of His way when I see things that I do not have the power to prove or disprove and I keep my big mouth shut. If is is of God, He will prove it. If is not of God, He will disprove it.

 

[TweetyBird]

I am not into 'movements', TB. I know some emphasize 'movements'. I ignore them the same I ignore the 'dream thingy' that someone can come and tell me about it.

You have posted that a few times now. From the start, I was immediately reminded of Paul on Mars hill. He did not ignore the monument to the "unknown god". He incorporated it into his preaching about Christ and the truth of Christ crucified.

Being that I believe that Christ Jesus is the SAME yesterday, and He is the SAME today, and He is the SAME tomorrow, and He is the SAME the day after ad infinitum, then when it is His Will, He will do whatever He desires, be it 'healing', 'speaking in tongues', etc., in these our modern times.

Tongues today and the gifts, the gift of healing is a new religious movement that began back in the early 1900s. You should do some study on it. It will blow your mind.

Lifting a text out of context to rest your laurels upon is not good discernment or good use of the Bible. What does not change about Jesus is WHO HE IS, and that He has granted salvation to all who believe - regardless of ethnicity or religion or gender. It's all about the cross, the forgiveness of sin - that changes not - people are going to get sick, healed, not healed, live and die - that does not change Who He Is and His finished work on the cross.

 

[lifeisgood]

Peter warned us that the devil goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour. Peter should know.

Yes. We do have to be very, very careful.

If you think you won't be deceived...

When did I say that? I didn't

One could ask, with all the winds of doctrine you have posted, how do you think you have not been deceived?

My doctrine is the same as Paul's 1 Corinthians 2:2.

I don't think you are paying any attention to what I have posted.

I am paying attention, TB, but honestly, I really do not know what happened to you do I? Rhetorical question.

 

[lifeisgood]

You have posted that a few times now. From the start, I was immediately reminded of Paul on Mars hill. He did not ignore the monument to the "unknown god". He incorporated it into his preaching about Christ and the truth of Christ crucified.

Yes, he did. But I am not Paul and I am not in Mars hill either. Will I preach like him? No.

Tongues today and the gifts, the gift of healing is a new religious movement that began back in the early 1900s. You should do some study on it. It will blow your mind.

Don't have time for studying movements.

Lifting a text out of context to rest your laurels upon is not good discernment or good use of the Bible. What does not change about Jesus is WHO HE IS, and that He has granted salvation to all who believe - regardless of ethnicity or religion or gender. It's all about the cross, the forgiveness of sin - that changes not - people are going to get sick, healed, not healed, live and die - that does not change Who He Is and His finished work on the cross.

My ONLY verse in the Bible is Christ Jesus and His finished legal work on the Cross of Calvary. And what a verse it is.

 

[Danoh]

Hebrews 13 is a series of reminders to the Hebrews, in light of all that its' writer has written unto them.

The sense of verse 8 is to be understood in light of that and is the issue, not of Christ and or God never changing their dealings with men; but of Their character - that They are true to Their promises.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

In light of all the writer of Hebrews has written unto them; the sense of that is the same as in the following from the previous chapter...

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. 12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; 12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

And what that is, is this...

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

 

[TweetyBird]

Yes, we are talking about two different things and that is what confuses many when speaking with them.

It's not confusing to those outside of Pentecostalism. That's one reason we can tell if that movement is of God or not.

God can do anything, IMO, whenever He wants it, to whomever He wants, when He wants it, and how He wants it and that is what I was talking about in response to the 'implication' within 'my' conversation with someone else that God does not heal today, which I vehemently disagree with.

We are to test all things to see if they be of God or not. Just because one is convinced it's God, it may not be so.

I simply get out of His way when I see things that I do not have the power to prove or disprove and I keep my big mouth shut. If is is of God, He will prove it. If is not of God, He will disprove it.

We have the Scriptures to test things out. The fruit needs to be examined. There are many false teachers and prophets teaching unBiblical doctrines and doing unBiblical works in Jesus' Name.