ECT 'Speaking in Tongues', true vs false.

[God's Truth]

You are the laziest person on TOL. I've already given you the reference and you'd know that if you read my posts instead of showing up to post one line tidbits of stupidity that you basically repeat in response to any rebuttal.

Totally complete waste of time!

That is a false judgment you made about me.
God still heals, and there is no scripture saying otherwise.

 

[Clete]

That is a false judgment you made about me.
God still heals, and there is no scripture saying otherwise.

Liar

 

[DAN P]

We find that the scripture shows us that it did occur, but how can a Christian tell if 'Speaking in Tongues' is being given by the Holy Spirit or it has come by a false spirit. Just because a person starts to mutter, mumble or shout unknown 'words' doesn't necessarily mean that they are being given them by the Holy Spirit. People with dementia, or drunks and the insane mumble and shout unknown words, are they being given spiritual gifts of speaking in tongues. Of course not, so how can one tell if the source is from the Holy Spirit, or from another origin.

There are many references to speaking in tongues in the Bible, and we find the most about tongues are Acts 2 and I Corinthians 12-14. Now, you have to understand that at the time there were Jews and non-Jews who came to Jerusalem and from nearby regions who spoke another languages. To communicate with others with different languages, the early Christians needed to have been given a gift so they could understand the Gospel, and the scripture clearly shows that happening. There are many times being able to speak to others in their own tongue or language was very important as we see in the instance when Paul addressed the Jews to give them a understanding of who he was.

Acts 22
1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)
3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

Now in Acts 2 when the Apostles speak in tongues it makes if very clear why and what they were speaking.

Acts 2
1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

The key part here is there were coming to Jerusalem, 'Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.' We clearly see the purpose and the actual use of speaking in tongues, it was not just babbling or muttering of foolish nonsense, it had a specific purpose and directed for the understanding of those from other languages and lands, as they heard 'speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.'

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

So speaking nonsensical words and utterances with no one to understand or for no practical reason, is it spiritually the same as the speaking in tongues given to the apostles and the early church.

Keep in mind it happened in the early church, the deception of Montanism known by its adherents as the 'New Prophecy', and its followers claimed the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. They spoke in ecstatic visions and utterances and claimed they received the prophetic gift from the prophets. It originated in Phrygia, and spread rapidly to other regions in the Roman Empire and persisted in some isolated places into the 6th century. It was a false speaking in tongues, and was recognized as such, yet spread everywhere and fooled many Christians till it was stamped out.

Hi and just one answer is in 1 Cor 13:8 says that TONGUES , THEY SHALL CEASE !!


And they did CEASE as that means it is the NEAR VIEW , WHY ?? Because THEY SHALL CEASE / GLOSSA is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE !!

And since they ceased , because Israel has been set aside as written in 2 Cor 3:13-16 THE FAR VIEW will begin as written in Mark 16:17 and 18 as nthese Jews will speak in NEW TONGUES !!

dan p

 

[Ktoyou]

Silliest post on TOL in a while.

yes, that post was pretty silly!

 

[Ktoyou]

You are the laziest person on TOL. I've already given you the reference and you'd know that if you read my posts instead of showing up to post one line tidbits of stupidity that you basically repeat in response to any rebuttal.

Totally complete waste of time!

please make a mental note of that.

 

[God's Truth]

You are the laziest person on TOL. I've already given you the reference and you'd know that if you read my posts instead of showing up to post one line tidbits of stupidity that you basically repeat in response to any rebuttal.

Totally complete waste of time!

Your false judgments of me hurts you not me.

No such person as Miletus.

You made another mistake like the one where you said the person being crucified with Jesus was a murderer.

Again, God still heals people.

Nowhere anywhere do the scriptures say God would stop healing people.

Timothy had stomach problems because he drank too much water and no wine.

What is better, to do the right thing and stop having stomach aches, or to keep doing wrong and expect Jesus to just heal you from it while you keep doing wrong?

 

[God's Truth]

Liar

Give the scripture where it says healing will stop.

 

[Clete]

Give the scripture where it says healing will stop.

I've already given biblical evidence that it did stop. You ignored it, if you even read it.

It is, however, nice to see that what I have said has stuck in your mind this long. If you want to respond in some substantive way to what I've already said, which is all still here for anyone to read, then I'm happy to continue. Otherwise, I won't be baited into repeating myself or starting over from scratch as though the arguments I've already made never happened.

 

[God's Truth]

I've already given biblical evidence that it did stop. You ignored it, if you even read it.

Nowhere anywhere does the scriptures say healing has stopped.

It is, however, nice to see that what I have said has stuck in your mind this long.

A post was made on this thread which is on my subscription and it gave me notification. LOL

If you want to respond in some substantive way to what I've already said, which is all still here for anyone to read, then I'm happy to continue. Otherwise, I won't be baited into repeating myself or starting over from scratch as though the arguments I've already made never happened.

My recent response here is a reply to two posts YOU made to me.

By the way, there was NO MURDERER on the cross, and there is NO scripture that says God doesn't heal people anymore.
There are many scriptures that say God heals before the New Testament.

 

[Bright Raven]

Nowhere anywhere does the scriptures say healing has stopped.



A post was made on this thread which is on my subscription and it gave me notification. LOL



My recent response here is a reply to two posts YOU made to me.

By the way, there was NO MURDERER on the cross, and there is NO scripture that says God doesn't heal people anymore.
There are many scriptures that say God heals before the New Testament.

For once I agree with you.

 

[Right Divider]

For once I agree with you.

How do you explain Paul leaving his friend sick instead of healing him?

 

[Clete]

Nowhere anywhere does the scriptures say healing has stopped.

Nowhere in scriptures does it say that aliens didn't visit Earth is the distance past.

Nowhere in scriptures does it say that the sky didn't used to be yellow.

Nowhere in scriptures does it say that Paul wasn't thirty feet tall.

Nowhere in scriptures does it say that the United States of America isn't the modern incarnation of God's Israel.

Nowhere in scriptures does it say that God wouldn't return in the late 20th century and call Himself David Koresh or Yahweh Ben Yahweh.

Nowhere in scriptures does it say...fill in the blank with whatever the stupid thing is that you want to believe.

This is called an argument from silence and I hope that this ridiculous list of stupid things some people believe helps you to see why it's a fallacy.

A post was made on this thread which is on my subscription and it gave me notification. LOL

That is entirely beside the point.

My recent response here is a reply to two posts YOU made to me.

You missed the word SUBSTANTIVE.

You simply responding with a declaration of your doctrine accompanied with an argument from silence is the opposite of a substantive response.

By the way, there was NO MURDERER on the cross,

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Rather than simply claiming that he was a murderer, I have made a substantive argument that supports it which, while insufficient to prove conclusively that he was a murderer, it certainly sufficient to prove that he wasn't a mere thief. The preponderance of evidence is sufficient to cause one to reasonably believe that he was a murderer and to know for certain that he was guilty of an actual capital crime, whether it was murder or not (there aren't too many other options if you reject murder, which there is no reason to do).

and there is NO scripture that says God doesn't heal people anymore.

No matter how many times you repeat this, it will still be a fallacious argument from silence that has been fully and totally refuted. You repeating it does not count as a rebuttal argument.

There are many scriptures that say God heals before the New Testament.

Of course! How is this in any way relevant?

We aren't talking about God secretly intervening in some isolated case. We are talking about the sort of clear and obvious, undeniable physical miracles that were performed by the prophets, Jesus Christ, the Twelve Apostles and most recently by the Apostle Paul. There is precisely ZERO evidence that any such miraculous healing are occurring today and in fact there is a great deal of evidence that they are not, not the least of which is a comparison of congregations that believe otherwise vs the general population. Disease occurrence is identical in both groups and death rates are higher in the church goers, not lower. Pretty crappy miracles if you ask me!

Clete

 

[Clete]

For once I agree with you.

Maybe you can provide a SUBSTANTIVE rebuttal of a single syllable of any argument I've made.

If so, I'll read it gladly.

 

[Bright Raven]

Maybe you can provide a SUBSTANTIVE rebuttal of a single syllable of any argument I've made.

If so, I'll read it gladly.

I noticed that you said that you provided proof that healing had ceased. Could you post that again. I find nowhere in scripture does it state that healing has ceased.

 

[Clete]

I noticed that you said that you provided proof that healing had ceased. Could you post that again. I find nowhere in scripture does it state that healing has ceased.

No

 

[Bright Raven]

No

The following is from Gotquestions.org

​​​​​​Christian Divine Healing Today

Concerning divine healing today, there are a couple different schools of thought. Some Christians believe the gift of healing (1 Corinthians 12:9) ceased along with the sign gift of tongues. This position is called cessationism. Other Christians believe all of the sign gifts are still in use today.

While we take the cessationist view, we do believe that God is still “the LORD who heals” (Exodus 15:26). He has not lost His ability to heal, and His love for His people has not diminished. Divine healing may come through traditional medicine or through direct intervention by God in response to prayer. Or, if God wills, wholeness may not come until the ultimate healing in heaven. God is the Great Physician, and all healing, physical, emotional, and spiritual, belongs to Him.

Do you agree with this position?

 

[God's Truth]

For once I agree with you.

There is hope for friendship yet.

 

[God's Truth]

Nowhere in scriptures does it say that aliens didn't visit Earth is the distance past.

Nowhere in scriptures does it say that the sky didn't used to be yellow.

Nowhere in scriptures does it say that Paul wasn't thirty feet tall.

Nowhere in scriptures does it say that the United States of America isn't the modern incarnation of God's Israel.

Nowhere in scriptures does it say that God wouldn't return in the late 20th century and call Himself David Koresh or Yahweh Ben Yahweh.

Nowhere in scriptures does it say...fill in the blank with whatever the stupid thing is that you want to believe.

This is called an argument from silence and I hope that this ridiculous list of stupid things some people believe helps you to see why it's a fallacy.

Your problem is the scriptures SAY God heals and does NOT say God stopped healing.

 

[God's Truth]

That is entirely beside the point.

No.

You missed the word SUBSTANTIVE.

No.

You simply responding with a declaration of your doctrine accompanied with an argument from silence is the opposite of a substantive response.

It is not from silence that God heals people. The Bible says He does.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

The BIBLE says they were ROBBERS not murderers.

Rather than simply claiming that he was a murderer, I have made a substantive argument that supports it which, while insufficient to prove conclusively that he was a murderer, it certainly sufficient to prove that he wasn't a mere thief.

You are going against the Bible.

The preponderance of evidence is sufficient to cause one to reasonably believe that he was a murderer and to know for certain that he was guilty of an actual capital crime, whether it was murder or not (there aren't too many other options if you reject murder, which there is no reason to do).

Do you really want to go against the Bible?

No matter how many times you repeat this, it will still be a fallacious argument from silence that has been fully and totally refuted. You repeating it does not count as a rebuttal argument.

The Bible says God heals. The Bible doesn’t say He stopped healing.

Of course! How is this in any way relevant?

It is relevant because it is the Word of God.

We aren't talking about God secretly intervening in some isolated case. We are talking about the sort of clear and obvious, undeniable physical miracles that were performed by the prophets, Jesus Christ, the Twelve Apostles and most recently by the Apostle Paul. There is precisely ZERO evidence that any such miraculous healing are occurring today and in fact there is a great deal of evidence that they are not, not the least of which is a comparison of congregations that believe otherwise vs the general population. Disease occurrence is identical in both groups and death rates are higher in the church goers, not lower. Pretty crappy miracles if you ask me!

God still heals people.

 

[Bright Raven]

There is hope for friendship yet.

Of course