"Son of Man"

[Bradley D]

In Genesis God told Noah that out of the heart comes evil imaginations continuously, Christians have the Holy Spirit not only to guide, but also to convict one when assualted by an evil thought. It is up to the Chrisitian to turn from/push aside the evil thought and push on towards Christ/the Father. We should work at not to grieve the Holy Spirit.

 

[OZOS]

So you're saying that our minds/wills, which are spirit-led, have no control over our bodies whatsoever?

When Paul said, "those who stole, steal no longer" he only meant "don't think about stealing, even as your body is robbing a bank"? That seems odd.

Stupid questions and unrelated to what I said.

 

[Derf]

Stupid questions and unrelated to what I said.

Then what does the Spirit do with the body when the body is not spiritually dead? If we don't understand what 'spiritually alive" means with respect to the body, how can we know what "spiritually dead" means with respect to the body?

I think it's only stupid and unrelated because it shows that the body, which is physical, is not really dead, but is assured to die, and perhaps the process began; "dying you shall die", which occurred "in the day" Adam ate of the fruit.

Thus, we were "dead in our trespasses and sins" because death was a foregone conclusion--there was no escaping it. Until Christ died for the ungodly. And now we will live.

 

[Hilltrot]

God, in a body of flesh, can die and did die. Again, you don't understand what death is.

I've already said you can define death how you'd like. From what I've read in scripture, God can't do it. God is not a man.

I have proven to you, from God's word that death is separation.

Proving it to yourself is not the same as proving it to someone else.

The body and the spirit are not the same.
The body can and does die, and yet the spirit still be alive.

The ghost in a shell hypothesis of Greek philosophy is not in the Bible. When, you die, you're dead. Your spirit doesn't wander around or go to heaven or hell. The resurrection is a physical one.

The spirit can either be one spirit with God (alive) or not one one spirit with God (dead).

One who carries the Spirit of God will live forever. The Greek idea of the spirit is foreign to the Bible.
Early on this idea had to be opposed as Paul did in 2 Corinthians 5.

When God died on the cross, it was the body that died, thus God tasted death for every man.

This is a form of Docetism. In this case, the body is simply a meat puppet.

At no time did the Spirit of God die, but He did experience the death of the body, just as those of us who have flesh and blood will also experience.
The thief died on the cross, yet was with Jesus in paradise that same day. Not his body, but his spirit.
The body and the spirit were separated. This is death.

I decided to stop discussing your explanation because I simply have a better explanation. Jesus was human - not God. As a human he died which happens when humans are crucified. God raised him from the dead.

The explanation is very simple. It makes sense. It doesn't get complicated. An uneducated illiterate slave in the Roman Empire could understand it.

And the best part is that I can find every part of it explicitly stated in the Bible.

 

[Hilltrot]

Enoch died a couple of thousand years before Daniel.

Bible disagrees with you.

Hebrews 11:5 NLT
It was by faith that Enoch was taken up to heaven without dying—“he disappeared, because God took him.” For before he was taken up, he was known as a person who pleased God.

Most date the Book of Enoch to the Second Temple period - likely written in Greek.

Jude references the Book of Enoch as well as the Assumption of Moses. I pointed it out because the Book of Enoch clearly points to Enoch as the Son of Man in Daniel which is why I believe the book, if read, should be taken with a grain of salt and not as the word of God. However, since Jude references the book and Jude is considered the word of God, I don't want to denounce the Book of Enoch further.

 

[OZOS]

The ghost in a shell hypothesis of Greek philosophy is not in the Bible. When, you die, you're dead. Your spirit doesn't wander around or go to heaven or hell. The resurrection is a physical one.

You've never really read the Bible have you?

"Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
(For we walk by faith, not by sight, We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

A believer (not you), is one spirit with God (1 Cor 6:17), having the Spirit of God dwelling in them (Rom 8:9). When the body dies, the spirit is then absent from the body and present with the Lord., the Lord Jesus Christ.

"But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better"

Again, your denial of what death is provides abundant evidence that you are not in the faith. Why do you hate God's word?

"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented."

"And He said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Jesus is God, and you will one day hear God say to you "I never knew you"

 

[OZOS]

Then what does the Spirit do with the body when the body is not spiritually dead? If we don't understand what 'spiritually alive" means with respect to the body, how can we know what "spiritually dead" means with respect to the body?

I think it's only stupid and unrelated because it shows that the body, which is physical, is not really dead, but is assured to die, and perhaps the process began; "dying you shall die", which occurred "in the day" Adam ate of the fruit.

Thus, we were "dead in our trespasses and sins" because death was a foregone conclusion--there was no escaping it. Until Christ died for the ungodly. And now we will live.

Adam was created with a spirit that was not dead (separated from God). Adam sinned and was no longer one spirit with God, he died, on the day he ate (your interpretation is false). Jesus is the only one born alive, being God, who is spirit, in order to reconcile man to God. Because of Adam's sin, death spread to all men...

"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins"

Receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and becoming "one spirit with Him" is salvation. "It is the Spirit that gives life".
We are saved by receiving His life (Rom 5:10).

The reason no one can die who has received His life, is because of the once for all sacrifice for sin on the cross. Men are not eternally separated from God because of their disobedience, but because of the disobedience of Adam. In contrast, no one has eternal life because of their own obedience, but because of the obedience of One man.

READ THE BIBLE:

"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

This is Christianity 101, anything else is a false gospel.

 

[Hilltrot]

You've never really read the Bible have you?

You've never escaped Platonism have you?

A believer (not you)

At no point does scripture tell Christians to believe Jesus is the one true God.

When the body dies, the spirit is then absent from the body and present with the Lord., the Lord Jesus Christ.

And this is the part you don't have a scripture for.

"But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better"

Again, your denial of what death is provides abundant evidence that you are not in the faith. Why do you hate God's word?

You either missed or did not understand 5:3-4. Here it is in the easier to understand NLT.

2 Corinthians 5:3-4 NLT
For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. [4] While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life.

Long story, short. Christians aren't going to be disembodied spirits.

"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented."

Once again, clearly physical bodies and not the Greek concept of spirits.

"And He said to him, “Truly, I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise.”

Fixed the comma for you. Personally, this was probably the most disappointing thing I came to realize in my Bible studies. I have the belief that some may get to make the leap before the resurrection, but I don't believe every Christian will. It's something I'm still studying.

Jesus is God, and you will one day hear God say to you "I never knew you"

Anyone who doesn't agree with OZOS's interpretation of the Bible goes to hell. Which Bible verse is that?

 

[Right Divider]

Bible disagrees with you.

My mistake. Fixed the post.

Point being that Enoch preceded Daniel by thousands of years.

Hebrews 11:5 NLT
It was by faith that Enoch was taken up to heaven without dying—“he disappeared, because God took him.” For before he was taken up, he was known as a person who pleased God.

Most date the Book of Enoch to the Second Temple period - likely written in Greek.

Jude references the Book of Enoch as well as the Assumption of Moses. I pointed it out because the Book of Enoch clearly points to Enoch as the Son of Man in Daniel which is why I believe the book, if read, should be taken with a grain of salt and not as the word of God. However, since Jude references the book and Jude is considered the word of God, I don't want to denounce the Book of Enoch further.

So the book of Enoch is not scripture and is irrelevant.

 

[OZOS]

Anyone who doesn't agree with OZOS's interpretation of the Bible goes to hell. Which Bible verse is that?

Once again, you are going to hell because you don't believe the gospel.

You are also a moron, who can't think logically.

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

If a believer is absent from the body, where are they?

Idiot.

 

[Hilltrot]

Once again, you are going to hell because you don't believe the gospel.

Acts 2:22-41 is the breifest synopsis of the Gospel. I know. It doesn't state what you want it to. At no point does Jesus ask his disciples or anyone else to believe that he is the one true God. Neither does anyone else.

You are also a moron, who can't think logically.

Once again, you're changing salvation into an IQ test. This is gnosticism.

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

He's speaking of the earthly body - not all bodies.

If a believer is absent from the body, where are they?

They're in physical form, or they aren't.

Idiot.

Once again, you're stating your belief that salvation is an IQ test.

 

[OZOS]

Once again, you're changing salvation into an IQ test. This is gnosticism.

No, dummy, it's believing God. You don't. You lie against the truth.

Eve knew that God had said...

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

"We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."

But the serpent said...

"Ye shall not surely die. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

They died because they chose to not believe what God said. YOU remain dead, because you choose to not believe what God has said.

 

[Right Divider]

Acts 2:22-41 is the breifest synopsis of the Gospel. I know. It doesn't state what you want it to. At no point does Jesus ask his disciples or anyone else to believe that he is the one true God. Neither does anyone else.

The gospel that will save you TODAY was completely unknown to Peter at the time that he spoke to YE MEN OF ISRAEL (Acts 2:22).

 

[Derf]

No, dummy, it's believing God. You don't. You lie against the truth.

Eve knew that God had said...

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

"We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."

But the serpent said...

"Ye shall not surely die. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

They died because they chose to not believe what God said. YOU remain dead, because you choose to not believe what God has said.

Except for "dummy", This is a much better response than "idiot" and "moron"! Thanks for changing your tone.

Derf

 

[Hilltrot]

No, dummy, it's believing God. You don't. You lie against the truth.

You still haven't given up the idea of salvation being an IQ test.

Eve knew that God had said...

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

"We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."

But the serpent said...

"Ye shall not surely die. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

They died because they chose to not believe what God said.

They died because they had done. Genesis 3:13-14,17 Romans 5:14

YOU remain dead, because you choose to not believe what God has said.

I hate to burst you bubble OZOS, but you're not the one true God.

 

[OZOS]

Dust free sandals.

Go to hell, dummy, I don't care.

 

[Hilltrot]

The gospel that will save you TODAY was completely unknown to Peter at the time that he spoke to YE MEN OF ISRAEL (Acts 2:22).

So, what Peter said about Jesus was false?

How about Paul?

Acts 20:21 NLT
I have had one message for Jews and Greeks alike—the necessity of repenting from sin and turning to God, and of having faith in our Lord Jesus.
Romans 10:9 NLT
[9] If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Nothing here about Jesus being the one true God either.

 

[Hilltrot]

Dust free sandals.

Go to hell, dummy, I don't care.

Romans 10:1-2 NLT
[2] I know what enthusiasm they have for God, but it is misdirected zeal.

 

[OZOS]

If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens"

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him"

You lose, get over it, and move on with your worthless life, until the "day" when God tosses you in the lake of fire.

 

[keypurr]

Different than who?

The term "the Son of man" has to do with Christ's dominion over the earth.
That's why Paul never once uses that term in any of his epistles.

The son of man was IN Jesus and spoke through him. Only the son of man came down from above. But you will not see it because your mind has been closed. Hint: study the express image of Heb1:3.