sin/sins is not the issue today!

[OZOS]

Why do you say "AND" and shake your head?

Could you elaborate so we can discuss this better?

No offense brother, but there is not a single verse in the Bible which would suggest that men are to "repent of our sins" for salvation.

As you know, Jesus died for our sins. None of us are qualified to repent from our sins to be saved.

Repentance is not about us doing something about sin; It is agreeing with God that we can't do anything about sin, and turning to the One who did.

:cheers:

 

[God's Truth]

No offense brother, but there is not a single verse in the Bible which would suggest that men are to "repent of our sins" for salvation.

As you know, Jesus died for our sins. None of us are qualified to repent from our sins to be saved.

Repentance is not about us doing something about sin; It is agreeing with God that we can't do anything about sin, and turning to the One who did.

:cheers:

I can't drink to that, but thanks brother. Let's drink to you seeing that we are to repent of our sins to be saved? Here are some scriptures:

We even have to repent of our wickedness and intentions:

Acts 8:21 You have no part or share in our ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent, therefore, of your wickedness, and pray to the Lord. Perhaps He will forgive you for the intent of your heart.

We have to repent of things we have done, and can't say we don't know what we have done:

Revelation 16:10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony because of their sufferings and because of their sores, but nevertheless they still refused to repent of their deeds.

11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.


Paul, like John the baptizer, preached that we are to repent of what we do wrong and prove it by what we do:

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Luke 3:8 Therefore produce fruit that proves your repentance, and don't begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that God can raise up children for Abraham from these stones!


We see that after Paul believed he was baptized with the baptism of repentance (Acts 9:18); as were the Samaritans (Acts 8:12); the Ethiopian (Acts 8:35-39); Cornelius and his whole household (Acts 10:47-48) and Crispus (Acts 18:8).

Same one and only gospel that saves preached by all and to all. Repent and believe.

When Jesus walked the earth he says to repent of sins (Luke 13:5).

In addition, the disciples after having received the Holy Spirit, they CONTINUED to preach that the people should believe AND REPENT of their sins and call on Jesus' name (Acts 2:38, Acts 5:31, Luke 24:47, Acts 3:19,) and, even PAUL HIMSELF PREACHED REPENT of SINS (Acts 17:30; Acts 20:21, Acts 26:20, 2 Corinthians 12:21).

When Jesus died, rose again, and ascended to heaven, he taught to obey and repent of sins, Revelation 3:3, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 2:5, Revelation 3:19, Revelation 9:20,21,Revelation 16:10, 11.


Isaiah 59:20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the Lord.


That is a prophecy of being saved by Jesus and how to be saved.



2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again, my God may humiliate me before you, and I will grieve for many of those who previously sinned and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and licentiousness that they have practiced.


Paul is afraid that some of the Corinthians didn't repent of their sins and aren't saved.

 

[God's Truth]

Turning to God requires forsaking sinful ways and thoughts:

Isaiah 55:7
Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

 

[God's Truth]

AND?

:nono:

That is some good ole stuff you brought back up with this five year old thread. I'm glad you did :cheers:

 

[OZOS]

Acts 8:21 You have no part or share in our ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent, therefore, of your wickedness, and pray to the Lord. Perhaps He will forgive you for the intent of your heart.

Not a salvation verse, and nothing to do with the Body of Christ, preached by Paul.

We have to repent of things we have done, and can't say we don't know what we have done:

Through Paul's gospel, we agree with God that we are sinners in need of a Savior, believing that Christ died for our sins and was raised for our justification. We do not repent from our sins to be saved. We trust Christ's sacrifice for our sins to be saved.

Revelation 16:10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony because of their sufferings and because of their sores, but nevertheless they still refused to repent of their deeds.

11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

Not a salvation verse.

Paul, like John the baptizer, preached that we are to repent of what we do wrong and prove it by what we do:

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Nope, nothing there about repenting from sins to be saved.

Luke 3:8 Therefore produce fruit that proves your repentance, and don't begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that God can raise up children for Abraham from these stones!

Pre-cross Law.

[

B]We see that after Paul believed he was baptized with the baptism of repentance (Acts 9:18); as were the Samaritans (Acts 8:12); the Ethiopian (Acts 8:35-39); Cornelius and his whole household (Acts 10:47-48) and Crispus (Acts 18:8).

Same one and only gospel that saves preached by all and to all. Repent and believe.[/B]

Still not a word of repenting from sins to be saved.

When Jesus walked the earth he says to repent of sins (Luke 13:5).

No, He doesn't. That verse says no such thing about repenting from sins.

In addition, the disciples after having received the Holy Spirit, they CONTINUED to preach that the people should believe AND REPENT of their sins and call on Jesus' name (Acts 2:38, Acts 5:31, Luke 24:47, Acts 3:19,) and, even PAUL HIMSELF PREACHED REPENT of SINS (Acts 17:30; Acts 20:21, Acts 26:20, 2 Corinthians 12:21).

Not even ONE of those verse implies, suggests or commands repentance from sins for salvation. Not a single one. You are tripped up on a word you don't understand.

[

B]When Jesus died, rose again, and ascended to heaven, he taught to obey and repent of sins, Revelation 3:3, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 2:5, Revelation 3:19, Revelation 9:20,21,Revelation 16:10, 11.[/B]

No, He did not. Not for salvation.

Isaiah 59:20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the Lord.

Pre-cross Law

That is a prophecy of being saved by Jesus and how to be saved.

BS

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again, my God may humiliate me before you, and I will grieve for many of those who previously sinned and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and licentiousness that they have practiced.

The Corinthians were saved.

Paul is afraid that some of the Corinthians didn't repent of their sins and aren't saved.

:chuckle: Try again, there is nothing in that verse to imply that they are not believers or that salvation comes by repenting from sins.

Anyone who attempts to do something about sin to be saved rejects that finished work of the cross. You teach a works based message, which Paul calls "another gospel".

Fair enough, at least I know which side of the cross you stand on.

 

[God's Truth]

Not a salvation verse, and nothing to do with the Body of Christ, preached by Paul.

It is a salvation scripture. You dismiss Jesus’ words, and all the apostles except for Paul means you are ensnared. Think about who does that? Who dismisses Jesus’ words he spoke as not as salvic than Paul’s words for certain people?

Through Paul's gospel, we agree with God that we are sinners in need of a Savior, believing that Christ died for our sins and was raised for our justification. We do not repent from our sins to be saved. We trust Christ's sacrifice for our sins to be saved.

We have to trust that Jesus’ blood washes us of the sins we REPENT of doing.

Revelation 16:10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony because of their sufferings and because of their sores, but nevertheless they still refused to repent of their deeds.

11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.
Not a salvation verse.

Of course it is. You just keep dismissing what the Word says.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
Nope, nothing there about repenting from sins to be saved.

Are you kidding? Paul taught exactly what the forerunner John the baptizer taught.
Don’t you know why John had his head cut off?

Luke 3:8 Therefore produce fruit that proves your repentance, and don't begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that God can raise up children for Abraham from these stones!
Pre-cross Law.

No, John the baptizer taught the new covenant way.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

 

[OZOS]

It is a salvation scripture. You dismiss Jesus’ words, and all the apostles except for Paul means you are ensnared. Think about who does that? Who dismisses Jesus’ words he spoke as not as salvic than Paul’s words for certain people?

Jesus taught under the Law, to those who were under the Law. His words were spoken to prove that all men are sinners in need of a Savior. The cross is the end of the Law to all who believe.

We have to trust that Jesus’ blood washes us of the sins we REPENT of doing.

Sounds like Catholic heresy of co-redemption.

Of course it is. You just keep dismissing what the Word says.

Not a chance.

Are you kidding? Paul taught exactly what the forerunner John the baptizer taught.

LOL

Don’t you know why John had his head cut off?

He was stick his nose in other people's business.

No, John the baptizer taught the new covenant way.

LOL

 

[God's Truth]

We see that after Paul believed he was baptized with the baptism of repentance (Acts 9:18); as were the Samaritans (Acts 8:12); the Ethiopian (Acts 8:35-39); Cornelius and his whole household (Acts 10:47-48) and Crispus (Acts 18:8).

Same one and only gospel that saves preached by all and to all. Repent and believe.
Still not a word of repenting from sins to be saved.

Your mere denial means nothing.

I gave you many scriptures that show a person isn’t saved until they repent of their sins.

All the disciples when Jesus walked the earth were baptized with the baptism of repentance, and JESUS himself was, and Paul was, but you want to claim no one has to repent of the sins they did is something Satan wants to hear.

Just think, Jesus himself was water baptized, and so was Paul, but you preach no we don't do like that.

Who are you?

I'm going to do what Jesus and Paul say, not what you say.

When Jesus walked the earth he says to repent of sins (Luke 13:5).
No, He doesn't. That verse says no such thing about repenting from sins.

I have already proven with scripture that REPENT is of SINS.

Repent doesn’t mean to just change your mind about God.

Paul had to teach the Greeks and Gentiles and JEWS about Jesus.

What are they going to change their mind about Jesus when he wasn’t heard about before and known?

 

[OZOS]

Your mere denial means nothing.

I've only denied your perversion of the text and the gospel.

I gave you many scriptures that show a person isn’t saved until they repent of their sins.

You gave me none. There are none.

All the disciples when Jesus walked the earth were baptized with the baptism of repentance, and JESUS himself was, and Paul was, but you want to claim no one has to repent of the sins they did is something Satan wants to hear.

Satan is the one who teaches that "You must repent of your sins to be saved".

Just think, Jesus himself was water baptized, and so was Paul, but you preach no we don't do like that.

Paul said there is only ONE baptism for the Body of Christ, and it is NOT in water, but by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ. Water baptism is unto the nation of Israel.

I'm going to do what Jesus and Paul say, not what you say.

When? LOL

I have already proven with scripture that REPENT is of SINS.

Not for salvation it's not.

Repent doesn’t mean to just change your mind about God.

Judas repented of his sins and then hanged himself. Judas followed Satan.

"Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself."

You, like Judas, attempt to do something about sin, rather than trust in the One who did everything about sin.

The thief on the cross turned to Jesus (true repentance), because he could do nothing about his sin. His hands were tied.

 

[God's Truth]

Not even ONE of those verse implies, suggests or commands repentance from sins for salvation. Not a single one. You are tripped up on a word you don't understand.

You are denying what is right in front of you.

When Jesus died, rose again, and ascended to heaven, he taught to obey and repent of sins, Revelation 3:3, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 2:5, Revelation 3:19, Revelation 9:20,21,Revelation 16:10, 11.
No, He did not. Not for salvation.

It sure does say it is for salvation.

Isaiah 59:20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the Lord.
Pre-cross Law

Jesus fulfilled the old law and taught the new one then died for it.

That is a prophecy of being saved by Jesus and how to be saved.

BS

 

[God's Truth]

The Corinthians were saved.

Paul was worried they weren’t saved and it is why he was afraid. He thought he would be humiliated because it would be humiliating.

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again, my God may humiliate me before you, and I will grieve for many of those who previously sinned and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and licentiousness that they have practiced.

Paul is afraid that some of the Corinthians didn't repent of their sins and aren't saved.

• Try again, there is nothing in that verse to imply that they are not believers or that salvation comes by repenting from sins.

Paul says PLAINLY that they might not have repented of their sins.
I don’t want to say it but…blindish?

Anyone who attempts to do something about sin to be saved rejects that finished work of the cross.

So you think Paul started a new thing that Jesus didn’t mention when he CAME TO EARTH? Yikes lol

So Jesus tells us to do this and that, but then comes to Paul later and says no more of what I taught when I walked the earth but now tell people they are only saved if they DON’T obey because NOT obeying is really obeying?LOL

You teach a works based message, which Paul calls "another gospel".

You make Paul teaching ANOTHER gospel!You make Paul a hypocrite and one who curses himself by preaching another gospel than the one Jesus preached!

Galatians 1:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

You make Paul STILL doing things that make him an enemy trying to destroy the church.

Fair enough, at least I know which side of the cross you stand on.

On the cross.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus taught under the Law, to those who were under the Law. His words were spoken to prove that all men are sinners in need of a Savior. The cross is the end of the Law to all who believe.

So what happened to all of Jesus' teachings about 'if', and 'unless'?
God didn't do away with His words that are Spirit and life.

Jesus taught under the Law, to those who were under the Law. His words were spoken to prove that all men are sinners in need of a Savior. The cross is the end of the Law to all who believe.

Jesus taught the new guidelines, and then all those guidelines came into force when he died, just like how last wills and testament do.

Sounds like Catholic heresy of co-redemption.

Sounds like you don't get too far into truth and details; show where I preach the nonsense the Catholics teach about getting baptized as an infant and then a confirmation ceremony 12 years later, and confessing to a Catholic priest, etc.

Not a chance.

LOL
He was stick his nose in other people's business.

LOL

So much for you having any fear of God?

 

[OZOS]

So you think Paul started a new thing that Jesus didn’t mention when he CAME TO EARTH? Yikes lol

So Jesus tells us to do this and that, but then comes to Paul later and says no more of what I taught when I walked the earth but now tell people they are only saved if they DON’T obey because NOT obeying is really obeying?LOL

You've really never read the Bible, have you?

"Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith"

You make Paul teaching ANOTHER gospel!You make Paul a hypocrite and one who curses himself by preaching another gospel than the one Jesus preached!

READ AND LEARN

"Departing, they began going throughout the villages, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere" Luke 9:6

"Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things which are written through the prophets about the Son of Man will be accomplished. For He will be handed over to the Gentiles, and will be mocked and mistreated and spit upon, and after they have scourged Him, they will kill Him; and the third day He will rise again.” But the disciples understood none of these things, and the meaning of this statement was hidden from them, and they did not comprehend the things that were said." Luke 18:31-34

"Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures" 1 Cor 15:1-4

The gospel that Jesus gave to His disciples is NOT the same gospel Paul preached, for they "understood none of these things" that Paul preached, by which we are saved.

Galatians 1:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Paul was talking about YOU.

 

[God's Truth]

I've only denied your perversion of the text and the gospel.

You gave me none. There are none.

I gave many.

No one is saved unless they obey Jesus and repent of their sins.

There is no such thing as a changing of the word 'repent'.

To repent is about being sorry for your sins and having the desire to stop all of them.

Satan is the one who teaches that "You must repent of your sins to be saved".

How do you say something so evil? God is the One who says repent of sins to be saved.


Jeremiah 8:6 I have listened attentively, but they do not say what is right. None of them repent of their wickedness, saying, “What have I done?” Each pursues their own course like a horse charging into battle.


Ezekiel 18:30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall.


“If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.” -2 Chronicles 7:14

...and many more.

How can you EVER say that it is Satan who wants you to repent of sins?!

God is the one who tells us to repent of our sins.

Paul said there is only ONE baptism for the Body of Christ, and it is NOT in water, but by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ. Water baptism is unto the nation of Israel.

There is only one baptism of the Holy Spirit to get put in the body of Christ, but that can only be done by repenting of sins.

Judas repented of his sins and then hanged himself. Judas followed Satan.

"Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself."

You, like Judas, attempt to do something about sin, rather than trust in the One who did everything about sin.

The thief on the cross turned to Jesus (true repentance), because he could do nothing about his sin. His hands were tied.

Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.


In the old law, a person who sheds innocent blood was to be put to death. The chief priests and elders didn't do to him what the law required, so Judas did it to himself and took his own life.

 

[God's Truth]

You've really never read the Bible, have you?

"Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith"

lol I call it my gospel too.

Paul calls it his gospel, our gospel, the gospel of Christ; and Paul and Peter call it the gospel of God.

READ AND LEARN

"Departing, they began going throughout the villages, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere" Luke 9:6

"Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things which are written through the prophets about the Son of Man will be accomplished. For He will be handed over to the Gentiles, and will be mocked and mistreated and spit upon, and after they have scourged Him, they will kill Him; and the third day He will rise again.” But the disciples understood none of these things, and the meaning of this statement was hidden from them, and they did not comprehend the things that were said." Luke 18:31-34

"Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures" 1 Cor 15:1-4

The gospel that Jesus gave to His disciples is NOT the same gospel Paul preached, for they "understood none of these things" that Paul preached, by which we are saved.

lol Jesus' apostles were taught the same thing that Paul taught. Just because they didn't fully understand everything yet doesn't mean they weren't taught the truth and didn't teach the truth.

Paul was talking about YOU.

Paul says no other gospel. That means NO OTHER GOSPEL.

 

[OZOS]

Jesus' apostles were taught the same thing that Paul taught. Just because they didn't fully understand everything yet doesn't mean they weren't taught the truth and didn't teach the truth.

Maybe you read those verses, but sadly you didn't learn anything.

They were already preaching a gospel, Jesus told them to preach BEFORE they knew anything about Jesus dying for our sins and being raised. The gospel they preached was NOT the gospel Paul preached. You are simply in denial.

 

[God's Truth]

Maybe your read those verses, but sadly you didn't learn anything.

They were already preaching a gospel, Jesus told them to preach BEFORE they knew anything about Jesus dying for our sins and being raised. The gospel they preached was NOT the gospel Paul preached. You are simply in denial.

There is only one gospel. Paul taught what Jesus and the other apostles taught.

 

[God's Truth]

OZOS

Read this it tells how we have to be sorry for our sins and repent of those sins.

2 Corinthians 7:9
9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because
your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.


2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “the Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”



“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” - 1 John 1:9



Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

 

[JudgeRightly]

God didn't do away with His words that are Spirit and life.

Cannot God put on hold a specific program for a specific group of people, and start up another one in the meantime?

 

[OZOS]

OZOS

Read this it tells how we have to be sorry for our sins and repent of those sins.

2 Corinthians 7:9
9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because
your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.

This has nothing to do with "sins". There is nothing about "sins" in the context. You are triggered by the word "repentance", like Pavlov's dog, and think it always has the same application. God repented. God cannot sin.


[

B]2 Timothy 2:19[/B] Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “the Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

Talking to believers about their behavior. Nothing about "repenting from sins" for salvation.

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” - 1 John 1:9

I won't take the time to fully exegete this verse for you now, though I would love to in the future, but "confession of sins" (agreeing with God) is not "repentance from sins".

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

A dead work is doing something to get something you can never achieve by doing something.

The Jews (Hebrews) had tried to please God through obedience to the Law (dead work), rather than by faith. They repented and turned to Christ by faith. The author is telling them not to go there again. They had already repented from their dead works (keeping the Law) and have now entered His rest. By returning back to Law keeping they are again laying a foundation of dead works, by which they would need to repent of again.