Semantics and the Godhead

[Richard Tanner]

Oneness vs Trinity, Trinity vs Oneness. Who's right? Who's wrong? For a long time I was on the oneness side. Did I switch to the Trinity side? I'll let you be the judge - since that is what some of you will do anyhow despite anything I may or may not say.
Without going in to a long diatribe on the subject, I will simply say it comes down to Semantics. I've come to the conclusion that both sides believe there is but one God. The difficulty comes down to explaining how that is in reference to the Son and Holy Spirit.
David K. Bernard uses the Modalist view that the three distinctions are "modes (roles") of the one God. Whereas R.C. Sproul in his Video lectures on the Trinity explains that the word, "Person" means "roles". So you choose. Three Modes (roles) or Three Persons (roles)?
To me, the oneness over emphasize the oneness, thus obliterating the distinctions that actually exist. And the trinitarians over emphasize the distinctions obliterating (in language only)the oneness of God.
In the end both sides believe the same thing - they just explain it differently.

 

[Rivers]

Oneness vs Trinity, Trinity vs Oneness. Who's right? Who's wrong? For a long time I was on the oneness side. Did I switch to the Trinity side? I'll let you be the judge - since that is what some of you will do anyhow despite anything I may or may not say.
Without going in to a long diatribe on the subject, I will simply say it comes down to Semantics. I've come to the conclusion that both sides believe there is but one God. The difficulty comes down to explaining how that is in reference to the Son and Holy Spirit.
David K. Bernard uses the Modalist view that the three distinctions are "modes (roles") of the one God. Whereas R.C. Sproul in his Video lectures on the Trinity explains that the word, "Person" means "roles". So you choose. Three Modes (roles) or Three Persons (roles)?
To me, the oneness over emphasize the oneness, thus obliterating the distinctions that actually exist. And the trinitarians over emphasize the distinctions obliterating (in language only)the oneness of God.
In the end both sides believe the same thing - they just explain it differently.

Don't forget the Biblical Unitarian perspective which doesn't overemphasize either of these things and does believe differently.

 

[Richard Tanner]

"the Biblical Unitarian perspective" Sorry [MENTION=19034]Rivers[/MENTION] a doctrine that denies Christ divinity is not scriptural.

 

[keypurr]

"the Biblical Unitarian perspective" Sorry [MENTION=19034]Rivers[/MENTION] a doctrine that denies Christ divinity is not scriptural.

Define "divinity"

I do not see Christ as God, I see him as God's son.

 

[COGTHW]

James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

[jamie]

I do not see Christ as God, I see him as God's son.

Like Father, like Son.

 

[keypurr]

e4r

James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

There are some deep thinkers here now and then.

 

[COGTHW]

e4r

There are some deep thinkers here now and then.

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

 

[keypurr]

Like Father, like Son.

The Prince is not the King. He is the Prince.

God is the title of the Master of all, He created through his word (image).
That son (image) was give the powers of his God by his God. But he is still in subjection to his God, the ONLY true God.

 

[keypurr]

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

True, you seem to be still in the church box friend.

 

[COGTHW]

True, you seem to be still in the church box friend.

Colossians 1:18 'And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning....'

 

[COGTHW]

e4r

There are some deep thinkers here now and then.

James 1:5 'If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God....'

Ask God stop asking men about somebody that created them and don't even know,

 

[Richard Tanner]

Define "divinity"

I do not see Christ as God, I see him as God's son.

I will respond tomorrow - going to bed.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I do not see Christ as God, I see him as God's son.

Yes, the Lord Jesus said that He is the Son of God. Let us look how Paul used the term "son of" here when he spoke to Elymas:

"O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord?"​

(Acts 13:10).​

The Jews who heard this would understand that Paul was saying that Elymas' "nature" was that of the devil.

And when the Lord Jesus claimed to be the Son of God those who heard Him would understand Him to be saying that His very nature is that of God. There was no doubt that Thomas believed that the Lord Jesus is God, as witnessed by what he said to Him here:

"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God" (Jn.20:28).​

 

[6days]

Yes, the Lord Jesus said that He is the Son of God.

Yes. Obviously 'son' is a word used as a title. Because nobody would think that Jesus is a son in a biological sense. The Father and Son are one... And then Jesus sent Another. Scripture shows us the equality of the three.

 

[Crucible]

The Trinity is 'oneness'- deniers of the Trinity simply choose to insult their own intelligence by refusing to acknowledge it's presence in the scriptures or even the logic of how He manifests.

The Trinity godhead is inevitable, irreducible, and irrefutable. It always has been, it is why the dogma has never met any real opposition- people just choose to convince their self otherwise with faulty perceptions of the Bible.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You will never truly know the Father until you know His son who is a man.

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Trintarianism denies this truth.

LA

 

[Rivers]

"the Biblical Unitarian perspective" Sorry [MENTION=19034]Rivers[/MENTION] a doctrine that denies Christ divinity is not scriptural.

This assertion doesn't help. Biblical Unitarians would simply say that neither the Trinity doctrine nor the Oneness Pentecostal teaching are scriptural.

 

[keypurr]

Yes. Obviously 'son' is a word used as a title. Because nobody would think that Jesus is a son in a biological sense. The Father and Son are one... And then Jesus sent Another. Scripture shows us the equality of the three.

I see Jesus as a human only but he was given a special spirit at his baptism. That spirit is the spirit son that spoke through the flesh son.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[keypurr]

The Trinity is 'oneness'- deniers of the Trinity simply choose to insult their own intelligence by refusing to acknowledge it's presence in the scriptures or even the logic of how He manifests.

The Trinity godhead is inevitable, irreducible, and irrefutable. It always has been, it is why the dogma has never met any real opposition- people just choose to convince their self otherwise with faulty perceptions of the Bible.

No, we just refuse to follow Satan's church into the darkness.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app