Semantics and the Godhead

keypurr

keypurr

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Hebrews 1:3

(ASV) who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

(BBE) Who, being the outshining of his glory, the true image of his substance, supporting all things by the word of his power, having given himself as an offering making clean from sins, took his seat at the right hand of God in heaven;

(Bishops) Who beyng the bryghtnesse of the glorie, and the very image of his substaunce, vpholdyng all thynges with the worde of his power, hauing by him selfe pourged our sinnes, hath syt on the ryght hande of the maiestie on hye:

(CEV) God's Son has all the brightness of God's own glory and is like him in every way. By his own mighty word, he holds the universe together. After the Son had washed away our sins, he sat down at the right side of the glorious God in heaven.

(DRB) Who being the brightness of his glory and the figure of his substance and upholding all things by the word of his power, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high:

(ESV) He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

(Geneva) Who being the brightnes of the glory, and the ingraued forme of his person, and bearing vp all things by his mightie worde, hath by himselfe purged our sinnes, and sitteth at the right hand of the Maiestie in the highest places,

(GNB) He reflects the brightness of God's glory and is the exact likeness of God's own being, sustaining the universe with his powerful word. After achieving forgiveness for the sins of all human beings, he sat down in heaven at the right side of God, the Supreme Power.

(GW) His Son is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of God's being. He holds everything together through his powerful words. After he had cleansed people from their sins, he received the highest position, the one next to the Father in heaven.

(ISV) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of his being, and he holds everything together by his powerful word. After he had provided a cleansing from sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Highest Majesty

(KJV) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

(NAS77) And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high;

(NASB) And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

(NET.) The Son is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, and he sustains all things by his powerful word, and so when he had accomplished cleansing for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.

(NIrV) The Son is the gleaming brightness of God's glory. He is the exact likeness of God's being. He uses his powerful word to hold all things together. He provided the way for people to be made pure from sin. Then he sat down at the right hand of the King, the Majesty in heaven.

(NIV) The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

(NKJV) who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

(NRSV) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

(NRSVA) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

(TNIV) The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

(YLT) who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing up also the all things by the saying of his might--through himself having made a cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right hand of the greatness in the highest,

Aramaic English NT

(AENT) who is the splendor of His glory and the exact image of His nature, and upholds all by the power of His Word; and by his Qnoma he made a purification of sins and sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.
Qnoma means Occurrence of the singular Divine Nature
 
jamie

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
jamie said:
But the Hebrew Bible never refers to an express image of God.
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In post 33 I commented, "But the Hebrew Bible never refers to an express image of God."

Paul only had access to the Hebrew Bible and in the Hebrew scriptures what verse refers to an express image of God?
 
Zeke

Zeke

Well-known member
Richard Tanner said:
Oneness vs Trinity, Trinity vs Oneness. Who's right? Who's wrong? For a long time I was on the oneness side. Did I switch to the Trinity side? I'll let you be the judge - since that is what some of you will do anyhow despite anything I may or may not say.
Without going in to a long diatribe on the subject, I will simply say it comes down to Semantics. I've come to the conclusion that both sides believe there is but one God. The difficulty comes down to explaining how that is in reference to the Son and Holy Spirit.
David K. Bernard uses the Modalist view that the three distinctions are "modes (roles") of the one God. Whereas R.C. Sproul in his Video lectures on the Trinity explains that the word, "Person" means "roles". So you choose. Three Modes (roles) or Three Persons (roles)?
To me, the oneness over emphasize the oneness, thus obliterating the distinctions that actually exist. And the trinitarians over emphasize the distinctions obliterating (in language only)the oneness of God.
In the end both sides believe the same thing - they just explain it differently.
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The house of God which is us 1Cor 3:16, does have three functions that runs the kingdom Luke 17:20-21.
 
R

Rivers

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jamie said:
That is correct. A better translation is this one in the NASB:

And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature...​
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It's a difficult word to translate since it is only used in one verse in the apostolic writings.
 
R

Rivers

New member
jamie said:
In post 33 I commented, "But the Hebrew Bible never refers to an express image of God."

Paul only had access to the Hebrew Bible and in the Hebrew scriptures what verse refers to an express image of God?
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The noun XARAKTHR does appear in Leviticus 23 where it referred to a mark or scar left on the skin by a disease. Translating it "express image" or "exact representation" is more of an interpretation.

The more signficant issue in Hebrews 1:3 is the translation of UPOSTASIS which does not mean "nature" or "being" in biblical usage. Rather, it meant "confidence" or "assurance" (2 Corinthians 9:4; 2 Corinthians 11:17; Hebrews 3:14; Hebrews 11:3).
 
jamie

jamie

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keypurr said:
Yep, one third of the angels sined
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And that is how we know that Godly character cannot be created instantaneously. Christ has always had Godly character, it was not created in him, his character is innate, it's who he is. The Most High sent Christ to develop Godly character in each of us by living in us, guiding us, correcting us.

No, the Most High did not create puppets who could not sin, we know this because a large percentage of created beings did sin. For the time being their reasoning ability has been removed and they don't know right from wrong. The created being who enticed the first woman that it would be good to know good and evil deceived her. The only way to truly know evil is to experience evil, and we have.

Christ was not a created being because it takes time to develop Godly character within a person. We are begotten as a Godly person and given time to develop the proven character we must have to be born as a Godly being in the image and likeness of the Most High.

When we first begin to walk as a human being we fall, over and over and over. but finally we learn to walk. The same is true in learning to walk with Christ. If there is only one set of footprints in the sand they are not our footprints, we are being carried just like a small child. But we must grow up spiritually. We must develop the character of the Most High. His Son will show us the way.
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
jamie said:
And that is how we know that Godly character cannot be created instantaneously. Christ has always had Godly character, it was not created in him, his character is innate, it's who he is. The Most High sent Christ to develop Godly character in each of us by living in us, guiding us, correcting us.

No, the Most High did not create puppets who could not sin, we know this because a large percentage of created beings did sin. For the time being their reasoning ability has been removed and they don't know right from wrong. The created being who enticed the first woman that it would be good to know good and evil deceived her. The only way to truly know evil is to experience evil, and we have.

Christ was not a created being because it takes time to develop Godly character within a person. We are begotten as a Godly person and given time to develop the proven character we must have to be born as a Godly being in the image and likeness of the Most High.

When we first begin to walk as a human being we fall, over and over and over. but finally we learn to walk. The same is true in learning to walk with Christ. If there is only one set of footprints in the sand they are not our footprints, we are being carried just like a small child. But we must grow up spiritually. We must develop the character of the Most High. His Son will show us the way.
Click to expand...
Good post Jamie

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app
 
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