And if the king is human was is the likelihood the prince will be human?
Why do you believe Jesus is flesh and blood?
Semantics and the Godhead
- Thread starter Richard Tanner
- Start date
And if the king is human was is the likelihood the prince will be human?
Why do you believe Jesus is flesh and blood?
keypurr
Well-known member
If he is anything more than human he could not be the Lamb of God. A human sacrifice was needed to save mankind. Christ, the spirit son, became flesh in Jesus who is the body prepared for him in Hen 10:5.
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Paul said he always will be, "For He has put all things under His feet. But when He says all things are put under Him, it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted."
You just keep restating the obvious. We realize the Most High is supreme but how does that preclude Jesus Christ from being less high?
keypurr
Well-known member
Consider that Jesus was human and the spirit son in him is also a creation. All power that Jesus Christ has was given to him by his God. It is his God that made him Lord of all creation. He told you that no one is greater than his Father.
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I said
Lets not over look what the Word really says.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God
John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)
Then Jesus said that we have the very same Father, and the very same God that He does.
John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)
And even Paul said for us there is only one God the Father.
1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)
I said
The deity of Jesus or the deity of satan?
Deity-Divinity
I have seen these words used in so many different context, that I had to go to the library and look in the big dictionary. To try to find out why these people are using it the way they are. It amazed me. The carnal language is dangerous because it is satans play ground. Satan can use the carnal mind, change a few words, exaggerate anything there. But the spiritual mind which is only verses, he has no power. He can only try with a piece of a verse, and this is why I tell everybody. If you ever get a piece of a verse, go look it up for verification. But he(satan) will not use a whole verse because that is glorifiing Christ. And satan is anti-christ. Now when I speak of verses I'm speaking of new testament verses, because we know that he(satan) quotes old testament verses. And yes the Holy Spirit quotes old testament verses to. But Christ is the new testament. Anyway check out these deffinitions from the big dictionary at the library.
deity 1 a: often cap : divine nature or rank: the essintial nature of a god or of a supreme being: DIVINITY
di-vin-i-ty 1:the quality or state of being divine: nature or essence of God: GODHEAD (the divinity of Jesus) a celestial being inferior to the supreme God but superior to man<one of the subservient divinities>
Now it doesnt say that Jesus is God, what it says is He is second in command, it says Jesus is inferior to the supreme God but over every other creature in heaven and on earth.
I got my deffinitions from websters new world dictionary copyright 1993
Col 2-9
I think your totally missing what that one verse was saying. It was talking about the fullness of God working through Jesus. Has nothing to do with the deity of Jesus.
Col 2:8-9
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
(NKJ)
2 Cor 5:19
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)
Stricked Rules Of Believing
Trinity is NOT in the Word of God. Deity is NOT in the Word of God. God the Son is NOT in the Word of God. God the Holy Spirit is NOT in the Word of God. What is in the Word of God is. Dont think beyond what is written, Dont add one thing to it or take one thing away from it.
1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)
John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)
AND THE DEITY OF SATAN
xxxThe devil is a deity.
4567 Satanas (sat-an-as');
of Aramaic origin corresponding to 4566 (with the definite affix); the accuser, i.e. the devil:
KJV-- Satan.
1140 daimonion (dahee-mon'-ee-on);
neuter of a derivative of 1142; a daemonic being; by extension a deity:
KJV-- devil, god.
The only three in one trinity god in the bible is the dragon, devil, satan.
2316 theos (theh'-os);
of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:
KJV-- X exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].
2 Cor 11:14-15
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
(NKJ)
II Th 2:4
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
(NKJ)
xxx There is only one three in one god in the whole bible. Satan is useing the trinity to mock the living God.
Rev 20:2
2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
(NKJ)
Why? God's Spirit was in him from birth, before his birth he was not a son.
keypurr
Well-known member
You have not understood what I have been posting jamie.
God's first creation was a clone of himself. Read Heb 1:3 and Col 1:15. God is a spirit, his express image is also a spirit. A very special spirit being for God gave him his fullness. But Christ, the spirit son is a creation, not God. He is more a god, for God created everything through this spirit son. This spirit was sent by his God to dwell in the body God prepared for him. This spirit spoke and worked through Jesus to bring a deeper understanding of the Father to us.
It was only when both the flesh son and the spirit son merged at his baptism did God declare that this was his son. It was then Jesus received the power of the true son of man that came down from above to bring us light.
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Adam and Eve were created, angels were created, God is not created.
Why do you believe Christ was the first angel?
keypurr
Well-known member
I never said Christ was an Angel.
I believe that angels were created by Christ.
If Christ is the express image of God then he is a creation.
Can you show me any image that is not a creation?
If Christ is created then he is not God, the most high.
It is that simple jamie.
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Ask Mr. Religion
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Oneness is Heresy
Oneness is Heresy
Per the Oneness proponent:
Src: Bernard, David K., Pentecostal Theology The Oneness of God, VOLUME 1. (Bernard’s book is part of the required reading of persons seeking ordination in the UPCI: www.upci.org)
A solid introduction to the topic:
http://www.gospeloutreach.net/optrin.html
Although I normally do not recommend Boyd, given his open theism, on the topic of oneness—given that he is a former oneness believer—Boyd's book is a good treatment and refutation of oneness:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009LNH3X4
That said, the reader should be cautious when reading Boyd, as his process theology leanings do show up when he moves into matters related to theology proper. See a review of Boyd's book explaining the issues to be avoided here:
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0159a.html
A oneness view suffers from many defects, one of the most important being the love of God, which is essentially non-existent before creation per this view.
Lastly, an example of how oneness views lead to all manner of error can be reviewed in the following TOL debate:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?97148-One-on-One-AMR-and-God-s-Truth-—-The-Holy-Trinity
AMR
Oneness is Heresy
Oneness is heretical. Trinity is orthodoxy.
Per the Oneness proponent:
It is clear that the terms “Father,” “Son,” and “Holy Ghost” cannot imply three different persons, personalities, wills, or beings. They can only denote different aspects or roles of one Spirit-being—the one God. They describe God’s relationships to humanity, not persons in a Godhead. We use “Father” to emphasize God’s roles as Creator, Father of spirits, Father of the born-again believers, and Father of the humanity of Jesus Christ. We use “Son” to mean the man Jesus Christ and further to mean God as He manifested Himself in the flesh for the purpose of our salvation. We use “Holy Ghost” to emphasize God’s active power in the world and among people, particularly His work in regeneration.
Src: Bernard, David K., Pentecostal Theology The Oneness of God, VOLUME 1. (Bernard’s book is part of the required reading of persons seeking ordination in the UPCI: www.upci.org)
A solid introduction to the topic:
http://www.gospeloutreach.net/optrin.html
Although I normally do not recommend Boyd, given his open theism, on the topic of oneness—given that he is a former oneness believer—Boyd's book is a good treatment and refutation of oneness:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009LNH3X4
That said, the reader should be cautious when reading Boyd, as his process theology leanings do show up when he moves into matters related to theology proper. See a review of Boyd's book explaining the issues to be avoided here:
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0159a.html
A oneness view suffers from many defects, one of the most important being the love of God, which is essentially non-existent before creation per this view.
Lastly, an example of how oneness views lead to all manner of error can be reviewed in the following TOL debate:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?97148-One-on-One-AMR-and-God-s-Truth-—-The-Holy-Trinity
AMR
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But the Hebrew Bible never refers to an express image of God.
keypurr
Well-known member
All the translations I have seem to disagree with you.
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What verse, I'll check it out.
The Greek scriptures don't refer to a "express image of God" either. That is a poor translation of Hebrews 1:3.
That is correct. A better translation is this one in the NASB:
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature...
Richard Tanner
New member
G5481 (Strong)
χαρακτήρ
charaktēr
khar-ak-tar'
From the same as G5482; a graver (the tool or the person), that is, (by implication) engraving ([“character”], the figure stamped, that is, an exact copy or [figuratively] representation): - express image.
Express image - exact representation = same thing.
Total KJV occurrences: 1
I said
Not to many people can confess that Jesus is the Son of God and not God.
I Jn 4:13-15
13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.
15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
(NKJ)