Scripture. What is considered Scripture?

[glorydaz]

Incorrectly worded. Try the actual word itself, which is θυμιατηριον, and then go check for that word and how it is used and where it is located in 2Chr 26:19, (you may just find it located in the hand of an angry king who carried it into the sanctuary to burn incense in the temple by the altar of incense, (του θυσιαστηριου των θυμιαματων), lol).

PS ~ After that go to Ezekiel 8:11.

There are so many wonderful things we could be learning from the Bible instead of listening to these ninnies trying to nit pick it to death.

 

[Lon]

So my QuickDraw iPad autocorrects and deletes words, like the one in italics in:
“You do not even try to explain errors anymore.”

If you must count coup on typos, you just further diminish your credibility. I don’t typically mention your typos, but you might want the check the spelling of Ehrman.

I knew you'd know how to spell it. Me? Didn't care. Did you 'think' I was pointing out an error? :nono: I was using it to simply say 'move along, don't worry about it!' It is the same message to you regarding donkeys. Move along, NOT your job. Not for you to worry to death. None of your particular business. On top of that? Not only audacious, and not your business, but you aren't terrific at it. Okay, let's say ALL of us in thread aren't convincing...YOU aren't either. The thread goes nowhere, just bashing over YOUR presuppositions that you 'think' are valid. They aren't. Sorry, it is JUST your opinion over the matter (Eerdmans is a Christian publisher).

Stand before God on an accusation against a false, man-made doctrine that is not presented in scripture and is contradicted by scripture? A false doctrine that is a stumbling block to immature Christians?

Here is what I would tell Bart, you, as well as a new convert: "Not your job. You aren't supposed to be reading the bible for errors BUT TO FOLLOW its directions and learn more about your Savior." Your supposed problem? Gone. End of discussion. Nobody 'should' stumble over this when authority precludes it. Remember my dad telling me about perfect parents? The point? HONOR them. You CANNOT honor them by pointing out faults and it is NOT YOUR JOB. So STOP Cobra!

No, I think the position that you have taken, denying the truth and attacking the messenger, is the position of discomfort.

Good thing your opinion doesn't matter, no? You don't 'get' to tell me what to think. What you think about me? Your own problem. Your GREAT for posturing against getting to know another so this is par, no? You have a history in thread of problems with reading comprehension as well. Your impression doesn't mean much in such a wake.

I will proofread sporadically. If you present that as bothering you, then you are certainly focused on trivial matters to distract attention from your inability to explain obvious errors in the text.

AGAIN FLAG: READING COMPREHENSION PROBLEM. I used it to say it was NO big deal, and I know, given grammar that you didn't type it correctly. You MEANT it correctly. For me? Good enough. I'm not petty, I brought it up for a reason: to get you to 'empathize' a bit over how I even read your posts: I understood it very well so, I SHOULDN'T make a big deal of any kind about it BECAUSE I get it. IOW, "IF" you don't write perfect sentences, yet I can understand you perfectly, even with us both understanding we aren't perfect spellers or typists (mostly my problem), then surely you could have the same grace and NOT make a big deal out of a donkey vs two. We don't have those kinds of errors in scriptures. The majority of our posts have rather 'spelling' or small grammar errors, NOT whether we see one or two donkeys. Again, the point is to NOT make a big deal, not to make a big deal :doh: Now I realize you are the kind of guy that will tell me repeatedly that my wife isn't perfect AND will accuse me of a false doctrine for suggesting it, but she IS the closest thing. "IF" you can empathize and your wife too, is as good as gold, SURELY you can empathize with a 'perfect' Bible even if yours is only 'near perfect.' Shouldn't we be discussing the qualities of perfect and near perfect about our wives? Isn't that biblical? Shouldn't we be doing the same about a book all about a God we both (hopefully) love more than life itself? WHY WOULD WE discuss problems? You are thinking, like me saying one of my daughters is 'near perfect' that a boy will be disillusioned with her if he marries her? HIS problem and well before he ever met my daughter.

 

[Lon]

You're being over dramatic, no child is going to see it and even if they did it's not the full word but if you apologise for you underhanded behaviour I'll remove it.

:nono: I DIDN'T write it, you did. Worse? I thought you were genuine here, not some manipulative unrepentant acting pagan. There is nothing Christian about this and everything wrong with YOUR profanity YOU promised not to use on TOL. Yes, still bothers me. Leave it for anyone to see who you are and how appropriate your language is for a believer. Colossians 3:8 Ephesians 4:29 I didn't write it, God did. Take it up with Him.

 

[glorydaz]

See the part I highlighted?

This misleading and unworthy (of a Christian) insinuation has been used several times in this thread.

Should I repeat how I responded the last time this dishonest approach was used?

Recognizing God did not do a particular thing is not a statement that God is incapable of doing that particular thing.

God could have made the moon out of green cheese. The fact that He did not is not an indication of capability; it is an indication of reality.

God never promised us a perfect book. We don’t have a perfect book. That does not mean God is incapable of providing and preserving a perfect book — it just means that He did not do that.

I can't read past your first sentence without breaking out in a fit of laughter.


Standing against an enemy such as you is always right....we can fight dirty against evil people who attempt to attack the precious word of God. We can hurt your precious little feelings, and then we can double down on it again.

God did promise us His perfect word, and that perfect word is written in a Book that will out live you and all your silly ungodly friends.

Boo Hoo....does it hurt your poor little feelings? Well, your feeling better buck up, because we have not yet begun to fight you, and your attacks against the word of God, which all true believers hold dear.

 

[glorydaz]

You're being over dramatic, no child is going to see it and even if they did it's not the full word but if you apologise for you underhanded behaviour I'll remove it.

He has nothing to apologize for, you incredible creep. Go ahead, show us what filth you can spew out of your mouth by leaving out a letter. It takes away any mystery about who you might be.:cloud9:

 

[daqq]

There are so many wonderful things we could be learning from the Bible instead of listening to these ninnies trying to nit pick it to death.

Amen and amen again, and it's even harder to stay involved with those who make it perfectly clear, over and over again, that they are not actually interested in answers to begin with.

 

[Lon]

Was the altar of incense in the Holy of Holies or the Holy place in the temple?

Where is your head? Above your shoulders or on your neck? Same thing.

Incorrectly worded. Try the actual word itself, which is θυμιατηριον, and then go check for that word and how it is used and where it is located in 2Chr 26:19, (you may just find it located in the hand of an angry king who carried it into the sanctuary to burn incense in the temple by the altar of incense, (του θυσιαστηριου των θυμιαματων), lol).

PS ~ After that go to Ezekiel 8:11.

It depends on when you're talking about. It was kept just without and brought in once a year.

Lev. 16:12-13 And he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from off the altar before the Lord, and his hands full of sweet incense beaten small, and bring it within the vail: 13 And he shall put the incense upon the fire before the Lord, that the cloud of the incense may cover the mercy seat that is upon the testimony, that he die not​

My father used to say: "We are not the perfect parents, but when they come out, I'll try to get you some. Until then "honor your mother and father." Honoring in that sense meant clearly "stop trying to look for faults." My exact same advice to you regarding the Bible: Quit looking for faults. It isn't MEANT for that. "IF" you'd do what you are SUPPOSED to do with scriptures, this problem would go away. You'd not be hounding this bone of contention "if you just did what you are SUPPOSED to do with scriptures.

Spoiler

Deuteronomy 6:1-9;24-25 1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2 That thou mightest fear the Lord thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
24 And the Lord commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.
25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.

▲ I'm not SUPPOSED to entertain your accusation▲

See, you aren't paying attention.

SPOT THE ERROR:

Error? I don't think so. I knew what you meant. I don't have to pretend you can't write a cogent sentence.

Sorry to tell ya fella You are getting to be a petty man with this schoolyard antics and business. Question: Does he 'mean' or only 'meant' what he wrote? See the petty? This isn't a correction. Not only that, you BOTH missed my point: DON'T MAKE IT A BIG DEAL!
I was TRYING to get him to see even 'with' mistakes, it is BETTER to give the benefit of doubt. Both of you then IMMEDIATELY focused on the 'mistake' instead of the "NO BIG DEAL!" :doh I can't win for trying

I realize you are mad and acting out (or at least that's how it looks to me) but try to at 'least' read what I've said today. I haven't written anything for you to be angry with me about (again, as it looks to me).

 

[daqq]

Was the altar of incense in the Holy of Holies or the Holy place in the temple?

Incorrectly worded. Try the actual word itself, which is θυμιατηριον, and then go check for that word and how it is used and where it is located in 2Chr 26:19, (you may just find it located in the hand of an angry king who carried it into the sanctuary to burn incense in the temple by the altar of incense, (του θυσιαστηριου των θυμιαματων), lol).

PS ~ After that go to Ezekiel 8:11.

Was the altar of incense in the Holy of Holies or the Holy place in the temple?

Hebrews 9:4 T/R
4 χρυσουν εχουσα θυμιατηριον και την κιβωτον της διαθηκης περικεκαλυμμενην παντοθεν χρυσιω εν η σταμνος χρυση εχουσα το μαννα και η ραβδος ααρων η βλαστησασα και αι πλακες της διαθηκης

Hebrews 9:4 W/H
4 χρυσουν εχουσα θυμιατηριον και την κιβωτον της διαθηκης περικεκαλυμμενην παντοθεν χρυσιω εν η σταμνος χρυση εχουσα το μαννα και η ραβδος ααρων η βλαστησασα και αι πλακες της διαθηκης

2 Chronicles 26:19 LXX
19 και εθυμωθη οζιας και εν τη χειρι αυτου το θυμιατηριον του θυμιασαι εν τω ναω και εν τω θυμωθηναι αυτον προς τους ιερεις και η λεπρα ανετειλεν εν τω μετωπω αυτου εναντιον των ιερεων εν οικω κυριου επανω του θυσιαστηριου των θυμιαματων

Ezekiel 8:11 LXX
11 και εβδομηκοντα ανδρες εκ των πρεσβυτερων οικου ισραηλ και ιεζονιας ο του σαφαν εν μεσω αυτων ειστηκει προ προσωπου αυτων και εκαστος θυμιατηριον αυτου ειχεν εν τη χειρι και η ατμις του θυμιαματος ανεβαινεν

Boiyoiyoiyoiyoing . . . whah, whah, whah . . . you lose . . . :chuckle:

 

[daqq]

But, as ya'll might see, there are also reasons why it is hard to leave this alone.

 

[glorydaz]

Hebrews 9:4 T/R
4 χρυσουν εχουσα θυμιατηριον και την κιβωτον της διαθηκης περικεκαλυμμενην παντοθεν χρυσιω εν η σταμνος χρυση εχουσα το μαννα και η ραβδος ααρων η βλαστησασα και αι πλακες της διαθηκης

Hebrews 9:4 W/H
4 χρυσουν εχουσα θυμιατηριον και την κιβωτον της διαθηκης περικεκαλυμμενην παντοθεν χρυσιω εν η σταμνος χρυση εχουσα το μαννα και η ραβδος ααρων η βλαστησασα και αι πλακες της διαθηκης

2 Chronicles 26:19 LXX
19 και εθυμωθη οζιας και εν τη χειρι αυτου το θυμιατηριον του θυμιασαι εν τω ναω και εν τω θυμωθηναι αυτον προς τους ιερεις και η λεπρα ανετειλεν εν τω μετωπω αυτου εναντιον των ιερεων εν οικω κυριου επανω του θυσιαστηριου των θυμιαματων

Ezekiel 8:11 LXX
11 και εβδομηκοντα ανδρες εκ των πρεσβυτερων οικου ισραηλ και ιεζονιας ο του σαφαν εν μεσω αυτων ειστηκει προ προσωπου αυτων και εκαστος θυμιατηριον αυτου ειχεν εν τη χειρι και η ατμις του θυμιαματος ανεβαινεν

Boiyoiyoiyoiyoing . . . whah, whah, whah . . . you lose . . . :chuckle:

Can you give me the gist....dumb it down for me.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

God never promised us a perfect book.

2003cobra, meet Robert Pate.
Robert, meet 2003cobra.

Sigh.

AMR

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Incorrectly worded. Try the actual word itself, which is θυμιατηριον, and then go check for that word and how it is used and where it is located in 2Chr 26:19, (you may just find it located in the hand of an angry king who carried it into the sanctuary to burn incense in the temple by the altar of incense, (του θυσιαστηριου των θυμιαματων), lol).

PS ~ After that go to Ezekiel 8:11.

Thanks daqq, this is what this thread should be about. Answers given to questions raised about verses that are not readily understandable.

Hebrew 9:4
2369. thumiatérion ►
Strong's Concordance
thumiatérion: altar of incense, a censer
Original Word: θυμιατήριον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: thumiatérion
Phonetic Spelling: (thoo-mee-as-tay'-ree-on)
Short Definition: altar of incense
Definition: (ordinarily: censer, but) either the altar of incense, or the shovel, on which the high-priest poured the coals, when he entered the Holy of Holies on the Day of Atonement.

2Chr 26:19 & Ezekiel 8:11
4730. miqtereth ►
Strong's Concordance
miqtereth: a censer
Original Word: מִקְטֶ֫רֶת
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: miqtereth
Phonetic Spelling: (mik-teh'-reth)
Short Definition: censer

Leviticus 16:12
12“He shall take a firepan full of coals of fire from upon the altar before the LORD and two handfuls of finely ground sweet incense, and bring it inside the veil. 13“He shall put the incense on the fire before the LORD, that the cloud of incense may cover the mercy seat that is on the ark of the testimony, otherwise he will die.

4289. machtah ►
Strong's Concordance
machtah: a fireholder, censer, snuff dish
Original Word: מַחְתָּה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: machtah
Phonetic Spelling: (makh-taw')
Short Definition: firepans

4196. mizbeach ►
Strong's Concordance
mizbeach: an altar
Original Word: מִזְבֵּ֫חַ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: mizbeach
Phonetic Spelling: (miz-bay'-akh)
Short Definition: altar

Exodus 25:22
There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the covenant law, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.

1 Kings 8
10 When the priests withdrew from the Holy Place, the cloud filled the temple of the Lord. 11 And the priests could not perform their service because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled his temple. 12Then Solomon said, “The Lord has said that he would dwell in a dark cloud; 13 I have indeed built a magnificent temple for you, a place for you to dwell forever.”

I found this confirming what you say too:

'The Greek word translated in the older versions as "censer" and in most newer versions as "altar," is thumiaterion, from thumiao, to burn incense. It occurs in the New Testament in this passage only, and in the LXX (Greek translation of the Old Testament) only twice, in 2 Chronicles 26:19 and Ezekiel 8:1, and in both places it is spoken of as being held in the hand, and in all Old Testament versions of which I am aware the translation in these passages is "censer." Moreover, "In the inscriptions, papyri,, and classical Greek the meaning of thumiaterion seems to be censer" (Tyndale New Testament Commentaries [1960] on Hebrews 9:4).

The usual word in the LXX for "altar," and in the New Testament also, is thusiasterion, which makes a strong case for translating the other word as "censer" in Hebrews as well as in 2 Chronicles and Ezekiel, as the older versions do. And, since the writer of Hebrews makes use mostly of the LXX in his references to and quotations from the Old Testament, the case for translating thumiaterion as "censer" is made stronger still. In fact, Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (New One-Volume Edition, 1952), a reputable and widely used work, under "CENSER" makes no mention of any other meaning for the latter Greek word.'

https://www.thebiblewayonline.com/Studies/A- Hebrews Altar Censor.htm

In conclusion I believe Paul was saying that the hand held censor was the only other object (along with the Ark, priests robes and breast plate) that was aloud into the Holy Holies. Do you believe that is what Paul was saying?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

There are so many wonderful things we could be learning from the Bible instead of listening to these ninnies trying to nit pick it to death.

It's a shame you can not be more honest. If you really knew this then why didn't you tell me? No instead you find out the truth after lambasting me and then pretend like you knew, very dishonest and low. A better person and more honest person would have done a daqq did. That is what this thread should be about. Please Glorydaze in future here try to be helpful and stop with all the cheer leading and string. Here are the links to your bad behaviour:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127447-Scripture-What-is-considered-Scripture&p=5165801&viewfull=1#post5165801

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ed-Scripture&p=5165951&viewfull=1#post5165951

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127447-Scripture-What-is-considered-Scripture&p=5165953&viewfull=1#post5165953

http://http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127447-Scripture-What-is-considered-Scripture&p=5165978&viewfull=1#post5165978

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

:nono: I DIDN'T write it, you did. Worse? I thought you were genuine here, not some manipulative unrepentant acting pagan. There is nothing Christian about this and everything wrong with YOUR profanity YOU promised not to use on TOL. Yes, still bothers me. Leave it for anyone to see who you are and how appropriate your language is for a believer. Colossians 3:8 Ephesians 4:29 I didn't write it, God did. Take it up with Him.

You childishly call me names: "manipulative unrepentant acting pagan"

While you also take the rude word I used out of context and report me. I used it as an example of bad language that I disaprove of. Everyone can see that:http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127447-Scripture-What-is-considered-Scripture&p=5160158&viewfull=1#post5160158

Matthew 7:5
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

 

[Lon]

There are so many wonderful things we could be learning from the Bible instead of listening to these ninnies trying to nit pick it to death.

It's a shame you can not be more honest. If you really knew this then why didn't you tell me? No instead you find out the truth after lambasting me and then pretend like you knew, very dishonest and low. A better person and more honest person would have done a daqq did. That is what this thread should be about. Please Glorydaze in future here try to be helpful and stop with all the cheer leading and string. Here are the links to your bad behaviour:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ed-Scripture&p=5165801&viewfull=1#post5165801

Where is your head? Above your shoulders or on your neck? Same thing.

I believe she was saying that incense can be before both? Why would this be bad behavior? :idunno:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ed-Scripture&p=5165951&viewfull=1#post5165951

Incorrectly worded. Try the actual word itself, which is θυμιατηριον, and then go check for that word and how it is used and where it is located in 2Chr 26:19, (you may just find it located in the hand of an angry king who carried it into the sanctuary to burn incense in the temple by the altar of incense, (του θυσιαστηριου των θυμιαματων), lol).

PS ~ After that go to Ezekiel 8:11.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ed-Scripture&p=5165953&viewfull=1#post5165953


http://http://theologyonline.com/sh...ed-Scripture&p=5165978&viewfull=1#post5165978

Was the altar of incense in the Holy of Holies or the Holy place in the temple?

The other two aren't even Glory. Ya lost me.

 

[glorydaz]

It's a shame you can not be more honest. If you really knew this then why didn't you tell me? No instead you find out the truth after lambasting me and then pretend like you knew, very dishonest and low. A better person and more honest person would have done a daqq did. That is what this thread should be about. Please Glorydaze in future here try to be helpful and stop with all the cheer leading and string. Here are the links to your bad behaviour:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127447-Scripture-What-is-considered-Scripture&p=5165801&viewfull=1#post5165801

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ed-Scripture&p=5165951&viewfull=1#post5165951

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127447-Scripture-What-is-considered-Scripture&p=5165953&viewfull=1#post5165953

http://http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127447-Scripture-What-is-considered-Scripture&p=5165978&viewfull=1#post5165978

I'm not sure what you think you're showing me, but I think you're just full of yourself, and my behaviour looks just fine. :banana:

I don't actually follow along these threads post by post, but respond when I see I've been quoted. When I saw you quoted me, I responded. Was I not supposed to read back and thank a poster that I agreed with? Please line me out on the rules you think I need to follow....

and then I'll make sure I DON'T follow them.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

He has nothing to apologize for, you incredible creep. Go ahead, show us what filth you can spew out of your mouth by leaving out a letter. It takes away any mystery about who you might be.:cloud9:

Creep?
informal
a detestable person.
"I thought he was a nasty little creep"
synonyms: rogue, villain, wretch, reprobate; More

How on Earth did your twisted brain jump to that conclusion?

You also take the rude word I used out of context. I used it as an example of bad language that I disapprove of. Everyone can see that:http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post5160158

Matthew 7:5
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

See, you aren't paying attention.

Sorry to tell ya fella You are getting to be a petty man with this schoolyard antics and business. Question: Does he 'mean' or only 'meant' what he wrote? See the petty? This isn't a correction. Not only that, you BOTH missed my point: DON'T MAKE IT A BIG DEAL!
I was TRYING to get him to see even 'with' mistakes, it is BETTER to give the benefit of doubt. Both of you then IMMEDIATELY focused on the 'mistake' instead of the "NO BIG DEAL!" :doh I can't win for trying

I realize you are mad and acting out (or at least that's how it looks to me) but try to at 'least' read what I've said today. I haven't written anything for you to be angry with me about (again, as it looks to me).

You can dish it out but you can't take it

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Can you give me the gist....dumb it down for me.

Now you're being honest.

 

[glorydaz]

I believe she was saying that incense can be before both? Why would this be bad behavior? :idunno:



The other two aren't even Glory. Ya lost me.

Exactly what I was saying. :e4e:

I thought I was clear, but ya just can't please them all. :Christine