Saved from what, exactly?

[JosephofMessiah]

Originally posted by cur_deus_homo

Yes it is. Strive after righteousness through keeping the law...

The law is not your salvation neither is your keeping the law. The Tanakh never teaches that one must keep the law in perfection for humanity is an imperfect creation under the law. While the law is not far from us and is given to us that we may do it, there are enough examples of the men of God and men after God's own heart (David) which fail the law horribly and yet return unto a righteous path.

What I find wonderful is that in order to be servant to your false mangod of abomination for salvation you have to discredit and edit out the prophets words which were represented clearly to you in my post, and you used only a portion of my statement in order to mislead others to your false mangod.

...or strive after righteousness by having faith in the Righteous One, Jesus the Christ.

There are none righteous, no not one.

But this to the side, no man's death is atonement for another, and all vicarious atonement is outlawed directly through Ezekiel's justice. The prophet David, Solomon, Hosea, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel all speak to the path of atonement and that is the path you should follow, servitude to the mangod of Rome's false church leds only to blasphemy, and in doing so you are as the prophets of BAAL once were in the belief that an abomination can be your salvation against everything the Tanakh teaches you clearly and without equivocation, listening to an "angel of light" because it is a teaching of your youth is no excuse for ignoring the simple clarity of the voice of the prophets who scream at you to not accept the injustice taught in the dogma of Rome's church.

Hosea tells us clearly that when the temple is gone we shall give the offerings of our lips as the fat of rams.

Jeremiah tells us that YHVH never spoke to our forefathers reguarding sacrifice.

David directly tells us that no sacrifice is required (which outright denies directly the claims of the church of rome).

Ezekiel's denial that vicarious atonement can take place (18:20) is a direct theological denial of the teachings of the false doctrine of rome and stands directly against the injustice of this doctrine of Pauline Christianity and against the injustice of the Original Sin Doctrine.

The law of Moses tells us that YHVH accepts both flour and charity as atonement for sins. This in no way involves nor requires blood. Neither does Jonah's Ninevah require blood to find forgiveness of the LORD, they fasted and prayed and humbled themselves before YHVH which is directly in line with the path of Solomon.

All you have to do to believe the ignorance and injustice of the church of rome, is deny Solomon, Jonah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Hosea, and David are prophets....for they do not agree with your false godman's abomination as salvation in any way.

YHVH is not the blood god of rome by any means, and you are not saved through a "stance/belief" by any means what-so-ever.

 

[Jesus Lives!]

Originally posted by JosephofMessiah

The law is not your salvation neither is your keeping the law. The Tanakh never teaches that one must keep the law in perfection for humanity is an imperfect creation under the law. While the law is not far from us and is given to us that we may do it, there are enough examples of the men of God and men after God's own heart (David) which fail the law horribly and yet return unto a righteous path.

What I find wonderful is that in order to be servant to your false mangod of abomination for salvation you have to discredit and edit out the prophets words which were represented clearly to you in my post, and you used only a portion of my statement in order to mislead others to your false mangod.



There are none righteous, no not one.

But this to the side, no man's death is atonement for another, and all vicarious atonement is outlawed directly through Ezekiel's justice. The prophet David, Solomon, Hosea, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel all speak to the path of atonement and that is the path you should follow, servitude to the mangod of Rome's false church leds only to blasphemy, and in doing so you are as the prophets of BAAL once were in the belief that an abomination can be your salvation against everything the Tanakh teaches you clearly and without equivocation, listening to an "angel of light" because it is a teaching of your youth is no excuse for ignoring the simple clarity of the voice of the prophets who scream at you to not accept the injustice taught in the dogma of Rome's church.

Hosea tells us clearly that when the temple is gone we shall give the offerings of our lips as the fat of rams.

Jeremiah tells us that YHVH never spoke to our forefathers reguarding sacrifice.

David directly tells us that no sacrifice is required (which outright denies directly the claims of the church of rome).

Ezekiel's denial that vicarious atonement can take place (18:20) is a direct theological denial of the teachings of the false doctrine of rome and stands directly against the injustice of this doctrine of Pauline Christianity and against the injustice of the Original Sin Doctrine.

The law of Moses tells us that YHVH accepts both flour and charity as atonement for sins. This in no way involves nor requires blood. Neither does Jonah's Ninevah require blood to find forgiveness of the LORD, they fasted and prayed and humbled themselves before YHVH which is directly in line with the path of Solomon.

All you have to do to believe the ignorance and injustice of the church of rome, is deny Solomon, Jonah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Hosea, and David are prophets....for they do not agree with your false godman's abomination as salvation in any way.

YHVH is not the blood god of rome by any means, and you are not saved through a "stance/belief" by any means what-so-ever.

Perhaps you have not the faith which is of Abraham? The father of our faith?


Gen 22:10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

Gen 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here [am] I.

Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.

Gen 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind [him] a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

Gen 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said [to] this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

Gen 22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,

Gen 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son]:

Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which [is] upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

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Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here.

Luk 11:31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here.

 

[JosephofMessiah]

Originally posted by Living4Him

Perhaps you have not the faith which is of Abraham? The father of our faith?

Abraham did not require the death of a mangod to find righteousness this (the ideology of a mangod who dies and is resurrected to save only those who believe upon him) only came about centuries later after mankind was forced to follow the teachings of rome's church without question for centuries.

Abraham (it is stated) believed upon the LORD and it (his belief in YHVH) was accounted unto him for righteousness. This is an action which could not take place in any way according to the blood-centric mangod-for-death-payment dogma of rome's church. You must also ignore the teachings of all the other prophets I listed above which you so easily dismiss somehow.

I will snip the rest, for the LORD sparing the life of Abraham's son is not akin to the LORD requiring the murder of an innocent simply to forgive and any theological argument to such an effect is only for the ignorant and unlearned...try a third world country.

 

[Jesus Lives!]

Originally posted by JosephofMessiah

Abraham did not require the death of a mangod to find righteousness this (the ideology of a mangod who dies and is resurrected to save only those who believe upon him) only came about centuries later after mankind was forced to follow the teachings of rome's church without question for centuries.

Abraham (it is stated) believed upon the LORD and it (his belief in YHVH) was accounted unto him for righteousness. This is an action which could not take place in any way according to the blood-centric mangod-for-death-payment dogma of rome's church. You must also ignore the teachings of all the other prophets I listed above which you so easily dismiss somehow.

I will snip the rest, for the LORD sparing the life of Abraham's son is not akin to the LORD requiring the murder of an innocent simply to forgive and any theological argument to such an effect is only for the ignorant and unlearned...try a third world country.

What you are looking over is that the prophets desired to know such things but they did not. Did not God through the prophets say He would do a NEW THING?

Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous [men] have desired to see [those things] which ye see, and have not seen [them]; and to hear [those things] which ye hear, and have not heard [them].


He gave His life for us

Jhn 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine.
Jhn 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Jhn 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.
Jhn 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Jhn 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Jhn 10:19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
Jhn 10:20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?


Why Christ laid down His life for His sheep:


Hbr 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto [his] brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things [pertaining] to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Was not a priest part of the teachings of most prophets? How does that go against the prophets when they testified about Christ?

 

[servent101]

JosephofMessiah

murder of an innocent simply to forgive and any theological argument to such an effect is only for the ignorant and unlearned...

As much as the atonement is painted in this light - and I agree that it does not do justice to what actually happened - but what did actually happen?

In reality God knew that when He was to deliver the Children of Abraham out of their sins - that they would take His son and kill Him, God though was willing to send His Son - and His Son willing to go through the humiliation and suffering of not only His crucifixion but also his suffering through our misinterpretations. This was simply the reality of the time, and of the condition of the people in that isolated geographical location. The facts were foreshadowed in the Law - that by Christ's death - through the life and example, teachings etc./ the promise of the Holy Spirit - that the Children of Abraham would be saved - and that the Blessing to all Nations would be fulfilled.

The literalist or fundamentalist does no justice to articulating the Cross - or it's significance. Hopefully I did slightly better - but in reality the Cross is something that can only be understood in the quietness of the heart, with the help of the Holy Spirit - there is much wisdom and insight, very hard to articulate properly.

With Christ's Love

Servent101

 

[beanieboy]

Can you expound on what you just said, servant?

 

[servent101]

beanieboy

Can you expound on what you just said, servant?

I can repeat a little and think about what I will post - if anything

but in reality the Cross is something that can only be understood in the quietness of the heart, with the help of the Holy Spirit

With Christ's Love

Servent101

 

[cur_deus_homo]

Originally posted by JosephofMessiah

The law is not your salvation neither is your keeping the law.

I never said it was. God alone is the redeemer.

What I find wonderful is that in order to be servant to your false mangod of abomination for salvation you have to discredit and edit out the prophets words which were represented clearly to you in my post, and you used only a portion of my statement in order to mislead others to your false mangod.

I wasn't addressing your whole post. I was addressing only that one snippet about "salvation."

There are none righteous, no not one.

Amen. Of course that's referring to mere mortal humans. God alone is righteous, and we "take on" righteousness by following the Righteous One.

no man's death is atonement for another

Bingo! In the words of Anselm: Cur deus homo.

servitude to the mangod of Rome's false church leds only to blasphemy

Christians don't serve your "mangod," they serve the Righteous One of Israel.

YHVH is not the blood god of rome by any means, and you are not saved through a "stance/belief" by any means what-so-ever.

Amen. We are saved by God's grace; we are not saved by our belief.