Saved from what, exactly?

[Mateo]

'So then answer my question....

There was a time before the law was given to Abraham was that time of the law as well? "


Yep.



(Sozo, please take note. See how easy this is?)

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Mateo

'So then answer my question....

There was a time before the law was given to Abraham was that time of the law as well? "


Yep.



(Sozo, please take note. See how easy this is?)

Apparently it's not "easy" for you!

Romans 5:13

...for until the Law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

 

[Mateo]

"Apparently it's not "easy" for you!"


I was talking about simply answering a direct question, bro.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Mateo

"Apparently it's not "easy" for you!"


I was talking about simply answering a direct question, bro.

Unfortunately your answers, direct or not, are mostly incorrect.

 

[Mateo]

:sozo2:





:chicken:

 

[Sozo]

You're rambling, Mateo. What is your point?

I have easily destroyed your convoluted anti-Christ doctrines, so what else do you want to attempt to debate?

 

[Mateo]

(Mateo, furiously thumbing through the past posts that Sozo also has acess to unearths the following)

"Sozo,

Are you saying Billy Bob is not Jewish?"

 

[Clete]

Interesting that at this point, from "my sins" and "God's wrath" are split 50-50. It seems to me that they are the same thing.

 

[Clete]

89 posts and only 14 votes. :think:

 

[Mateo]

"Interesting that at this point, from "my sins" and "God's wrath" are split 50-50. It seems to me that they are the same thing."

Careful Clete, you're getting real close to cause and effect... which leads us to sowing and reaping...which
leads us to works and salvation...



:shut:

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Mateo


Are you saying Billy Bob is not Jewish?"

Asked and answered.

Does everything have to be spelled out for you?

 

[Mateo]

Yeah... a simple yes or no would be reeeeeeel nice.


(Dang, I wish we had a good nose picker smilie)

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Mateo

Yeah... a simple yes or no would be reeeeeeel nice.

The point, Mateo, is that it is irrelevant.



You certainly have a knack for chasing the wind, don't you?

:dizzy:

 

[Mateo]

Ah rekin that's a purdy good sumation of any edeavor to get you to answer a simple yes or no question.

 

[JosephofMessiah]

What, exactly, are Christians saved from?
You have already voted on this poll.
other (explain)

The idea of "saved" is of Christian doctrine which incorporates a Persian dualism to the doctrine of corrupted Judaism. There are many ideas which involve a mistranslation of Isaiah's morning star reference (what was Lucifer in one translation) and some would claim being saved from such a fallen demi-god due to the persian corruption, the dualism found in the ideal of a "trinity" and "satan" (which can be an ideology of Yin/Yang, pagan).

Judaism teaches a very different take of course (as is to be understood when you have monotheism and not duality) inthat YHVH set before mankind the life and the good, and the death and the evil. That YHVH is the creator of all things and a part from Him is no savior. That you do not need to be saved from a demi-god fallen angel because all eternal entities are directly commanded by the Single God (YHVH) and a cursory reading of the Tanakh can demonstrate who sent "evil" (from a human perspective) messengers when it was required, and it was not a fallen angel, it was the LORD.

However, I digress to build a standard which many people do not think about much, inthat it is not so much "belief in something" which denotes an atoning path to YHVH. This is in totality a Christian belief that a mere stance can be your salvation. This is also directly and repeatedly anti-thetical to the teachings of the prophets of the Tanakh.

The path of salvation of Solomon is exceedingly clear and simple:

{Edited for impact and clarity}
2 Chronicles 7:13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people;
[14] If my people, which are called by my name, shall:
-humble themselves,
-and pray,
-and seek my face,
-and turn from their wicked ways;
then will I [the LORD]:
-hear from heaven,
-and will forgive their sin,
-and will heal their land. (KJV)

Note I even use the KJV to demonstrate the ignorance of the Christian faith. Solomon's path to atonement was not indictative to any bloody murder of a human innocent. It involves neither any version of blood in any way. Contrary to the teachings of many peoples, YHVH never asked for sacrifice to clear/atone for mankind's sins.

The prophet David tells us clearly in the Psalm:

Psalms 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. (KJV)

This is one single scripture which Christianity has a hard time with, in fact, there is little answer to this statement which is so clearly presented that YHVH does not require a blood offering to forgive. Taken in context of the rest of the Tanakh it is demonstrated that God takes honor in very specific offering types, limited by act, defined under law, and limited by what can be offered in direct statements of the law, but that any human at any time can be an offering is a blasphemous lie. Neither can any human be atonement, neither has nor shall be any human a form of atonement unto Hashem, an abomination cannot be your salvation by definition.

Back on topic however, I answer "other" because you cannot by the Tanakh answer "Devil/Satan" because there is but One True God, a single Commander of all things. You may perhaps say sin, but then again I believe that is still a weak answer.

I believe a very good answer to this question is pride. We are saved by the prophet's words from our pride of thinking that we cannot make errors. We are saved from the pride of not seeking atonement and a righteous path. We are saved through being humbled to seek our God and know Him, and in doing so realizing that there is nothing that separates us from Him, except pride (or perhaps the worship of a false god).

But my answer is fairly complex for while "sin" is perhaps a good answer I believe that Ezekiel's path of atonement teaches us exactly what happens when the wicked man turns unto a righteous path...

But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

This path of salvation is so clear and so innocently simple (yet requiring of us to turn from a wicked path unto a righteous path which is not easy for us as finite hedonistic creatures) that the prophet repeats himself (which is not exactly common) to ensure it is understood clearly...

Again, when the wicked [man] turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Some Christian appologists attempted to take Ezekiel's words of justice and salvation and apply them to this realm maintaining that "eternal" atonement was only allowed through their demi-mangod, however this clearly denotes that "the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness and doeth that which is lawful and right he shall save his soul alive." It does not get any more clear than that and it is a wonderful discovery that God is not a blood god but simply desires of us to seek a righteous path in order to find atonement. And with atonement of your sins, you have nothing to be saved from...for "All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him."

I just wanted to put a more Judaic standpoint in this listing because TOL tends to be heavy pagan, err, I mean, Christian in argumentation when this dogma of the false church of rome is easily defeated by the words of the prophets of the Tanakh.

YHVH's mercy endureth forever, but his wrath is temporal.

 

[nomik]

I voted other (explain):

I voted other (explain):

I voted other (explain):
Christians are saved from the payment or debt of are sin's. Thats why Jesus had die for are sins.

 

[Jesus Lives!]

Originally posted by Crow

I think Knight is using the law as it is intended to be used--as a tutor.

I seriously doubt that Knight is using the law in an attempt to earn his own salvation.

I know I am late with this post but I had to reply

VERY WELL SAID OF YA!!!!!:thumb:

 

[Jesus Lives!]

I voted 'God's wrath' but I don't believe that thats all we are saved from. Guess I should have voted other:doh:

First I believe when God opens our eyes to the truth we are first saved from blindness of the truth. Or from our limited/wordly/fleshly thinking.

Second I believe we are saved from being Fatherless.

Third I believe we are saved from a hard heart.

Then from our own lust/ desires

Then from sin or the action we would take from our lust/desires

Then from the wrath that comes from the action of sin. Which also includes the Law. Because the Law is what shows us what sin is and therefore it is by that Law that God's wrath is stirred and our sins are stirred up all well.

I could write many other things that I believe the Lord saves us from when we come to Him. But I will stop..

 

[prodigal]

I find it disconcerting that "salvation" relies so heavily on the threat of eternal damnation. It almost makes me feel like I have no choice but to "get saved". The idea of hell, in my own opinion negates the grace and mercy of God, and makes salvation a certain necessity that we have to take whether we like it or not. An offer we can't refuse in other words.
Anyone interested at all in attempting to answer my questions has to keep in mind that I don't accept the validity of the bible the way christians do. I consider the bible to be full of spiritual truth, and that's what I look for when I read it, but I don't think the christian discipline and label are necessary for "salvation." So keep that in mind. I doubt any christians would want to debate me on spirituality and God without their precious bibles. But if they'd care to be objective and would like to speak with me about God that would be great. I believe that there is no one, and nothing that can teach me more about God than what I can, and have learned on my own.
I don't believe in hell. I find it insulting that no one has come back from the dead to tell us about the other side, but a bible beater can tell me that my grandmother is buring in eternal fire, relying on nothing but blind faith. But please, don't get me wrong. I find the bible, and the life of Jesus to be a fascinating model to live my life by. But I don't call myself a christian. I guess the title "christian" is the most important part of believing in God.
I voted other because I find christianity, or at least what it has become, to be completely ridiculous. It's just another example of power-hungry humans toting the name of God around as though they have the exclusive rights to him just because they call themselves "christians".
I voted other because I don't feel as though I need to be saved from anything.

 

[Sozo]

We are saved from wrath, sin, law, and death... Romans - chapters 5, 6, 7, & 8