Aimiel
Well-known member
I see nothing saying that repentance is works. If it were: grace would be from works. It isn't.
Saved by Grace or/and by Works
- Thread starter Wolguar
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Aimiel
Well-known member
You said repentance was our works. It is God's gift. We aren't given grace by works. It is the gift of God.
Aimiel
Well-known member
I'm not confused at all. Your understanding is, though. Those who reject Him are in hell. There is no life in hell, only torment.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Your judgment is impaired by humanistic thinking. God doesn't give eternal life to those who reject Him. Those who've never heard His Word are given ample opportunity to be saved, just as those who died before Christ came were. God is just. He doesn't punish those who believe, nor does He reward those who don't.
I never said God gave eternal life to those who reject him.
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Well, if we are physically choosing to ask forgiveness, then we are working. We are acting. If he has already forgiven us of our sins, that is grace. I won't influence your opinion. You can choose what you think repentance is.
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Aimiel
Well-known member
Actually, you did:
Everyone? I think not.
According to the Dictionary, LIFE = the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.
None of these functions take place in the Lake of Fire.
I choose to believe that it is a gift from God, not our works, since it is impossible to be saved by ANY works.
I just wanted to say this. I know you guys know a lot more about the Bible than I do. You all have such incredible points. There is a lot of different interpretations of doctrine so I'm glad you could share them with me. I want to make this clear. When I talk about eternal life and immortality, I unfortunately was using the D&C to justify it because in it it talks about how eternal life is God's gift to those who follow him and immortality is only his grace that all men only receive because of the Atonement. In it, it makes a clear distinction between the two that some people called me out on respectively. This is my fault. They sound very similar and only the church of Jesus Christ uses the D&C. I have noticed through my reading of the New Testament a lot of confusing/possibly inconsistent doctrines, so that's why I use the Book of Mormon and D&C because they are pretty consistent. I'm sorry about that, but you are all very fun to debate with. I just thought I would say this real quick.
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glorydaz
Well-known member
You're both wrong. Repentance means to change your mind....to turn from unbelief to belief.
Not a gift from God.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Why don't you just use the NKJ which is the one TOL uses?
If you post a chapter and verse, we can just click on it and read it.
Why in the world would you use the Book of Mormon for anything? :think:
I have no idea what D&C you refer to is.
Repentance=The change of mind. The forgiveness of God=a gift of the Atonement. Is that what you are trying to say?
I think I understand what your saying, but I don't know if you agree. I mean as long as we ask God for forgiveness when we mess up it doesn't matter if we see it as a grace, a work, or a change in heart. I think he wants us to do what he asks and would rather us get along doing what he wants then fight over it. I full well believe repentance is a change in heart l.Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
I'm not Catholic, bodily, but I'm Catholic theologically. Like you I perceive all the different interpretations of Scripture.
I used to think that 'interpretation of Scripture' was an important thing, until I recognized that through good interpretive principles, that the biggest difference between what all the Protestants were saying, and the other Christians, was that Protestants didn't talk much about bishops. When they did, they applied it to themselves and particularly to their pastors.
What makes a Protestant pastor? You could go the familiar route and earn an MDiv or a DD (seminary), or you could go to Bible college and become a missionary for a while, those are good ways to be authenticated as a Protestant pastor, according to Protestants. And then there's the internet. A server on the internet can ordain you, that works too.
Catholicism and Orthodoxy, the two largest ancientest Christian traditions, all use the ancient procedure of ordination to create authentic pastors, called Holy Orders, which is a skin-to-skin ritual, depicted in the New Testament in numerous places. The skin-to-skin chain in these traditions extends all the way back to the Apostles.
The Apostles said to believe the bishops.
The Lord Jesus said to believe the Apostles.
God the Father said to believe His Only Begotten Son.
D&C refers to Doctrine and Covenants. It was a book of different revelations Joseph Smith and two other prophets had during the beginning of the Church. Now the Prophet's revelations are preserved online so that's why we haven't added anything to it. We do use the King James Version of the Bible and the Book of Mormon is basically another testament to Christ, where it talks about other prophets that existed and their revelations and preachings.
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It's times like these where leaders who actually know God's will for men is most important. I just remembered most of our current day apostles were bishops before. I find that funny as well because it is not written principle. It just keeps happening probably because the Lord was preparing them, but nonetheless, I'm glad you shared that.
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Aimiel
Well-known member
I think that Judas changed his mind when he got 30 pieces of silver and murdered himself; but he didn't have repentance. He betrayed Jesus once. Peter betrayed Him three times. He found repentance. I thank God for His Gift. My salvation had nothing to do with what I'm able to do. God's Grace granted me the good gift of repentance.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
:freak:
According to American law, you have a right to your religion and theology, and I have a right to mock it.
Agreed?
I agree. People have their agency. I shouldn't enslave them to my desires.[emoji33]:
According to American law, you have a right to your religion and theology, and I have a right to mock it.
Agreed?
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Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
What do Mormons believe happens to non-Mormons when they die?
Catholicism believes that everybody who believes in Christ is an authentic Christian and will be saved.
Many Christians do not believe that Mormons are authentic Christians, but afaik, Mormons believe Christ's Resurrection from the dead is nonfiction historical fact, which so far as I understand Catholicism, renders Mormons authentic Christians according to Catholicism.
I am theologically Catholic, but I am not Catholic bodily; I am on the way to full communion with the Catholic Church, but I am not there yet.
Okay, I'll give you a brief run down of what we believe so this will make more sense. We believe when we die we go to the spirit world. In the spirit world there is spirit prison and spirit paradise. That's where we believe we wait out time after we die until judgement When judgement happens we believe Christ will send us to one of three kingdoms of glory: Celestrial, terrestrial, and celestial. Basically, Celestrial is where God lives. He occasionally visits the terrestrial kingdom, but will only visit the telestial kingdom once, where people he considers wicked reside. People will have a chance before judgement to learn about the Gospel, but how that will affect us is uncertain for a very fair reason. So after saying all that, I believe many non-Mormon's will probably go to the terrestrial kingdom. There are a lot of good people on this Earth so those who didn't know of him, but still were good, and those who were just not bad will probably end up there. Of course, I'm not the judge, Christ is, but the terrestrial kingdom is like the middle ground. I wouldn't think it'd be the worst place to end up. We believe that the lake of fire talked about will happen on Earth and not in the spirit world, so we will all be able to receive perfect bodies after death. There is a lot of stuff I could say after what I've been taught, but I don't feel like this is the place I should share it. If your curious about anything else, you can go to thechurchofjesuschrist.org and get a more reliable answer.
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