ECT Salvation Under the Law

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and we can agree , when you realize that Luke 7:48-50 is a DIFFERENT CONTEXT than Eph 2:8 and it is YOU who is confused and I agree that you are CONFUSED and are no DISPENSATIOALIST !!

Do you agree that if someone is saved on the principle of grace then "works" play no part in his salvation?

Do you believe that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by grace, especially with this verse in view?:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

 

[DAN P]

Do you agree that if someone is saved on the principle of grace then "works" play no part in his salvation?

Do you believe that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by grace, especially with this verse in view?:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Hi and the only Jews that are saved today are saved by the MYSTERY , because Jews today try to practice the Law !!

What doe Rom 4:16 mean to you , for today ?

You should also know that Rom 4:16 points to ABRAM as a Gentiles and not Abraham !! Check the Greek text and the same in GALATIANS !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and the only Jews that are saved today are saved by the MYSTERY , because Jews today try to practice the Law !!

Dan, that has nothing to do with the questions I asked. Here are those two questions again and perhaps this time you will answer them:

Do you agree that if someone is saved on the principle of grace then "works" play no part in his salvation?

Do you believe that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by grace, especially with this verse in view?:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

 

[DAN P]

Dan, that has nothing to do with the questions I asked. Here are those two questions again and perhaps this time you will answer them:

Do you agree that if someone is saved on the principle of grace then "works" play no part in his salvation?

Do you believe that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by grace, especially with this verse in view?:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Hi and I believe that I answered it , BUT here it is again !!

Per Eph 2:8 WORKS do not play a part in salvation in the MYSTERY and Eph 2:9 and it reads , NOT from works , LEST any one should glory !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and I believe that I answered it , BUT here it is again !!

Per Eph 2:8 WORKS do not play a part in salvation in the MYSTERY and Eph 2:9 and it reads , NOT from works , LEST any one should glory !!

Dan, that does not answer my questions. Please quote my questions and then put a "yes" or a "no" underneath the question.

Thanks!

 

[DAN P]

Hi and no Jews were saved by GRACE and Peter also AGREES in Acts 15:11 , you are the only who has not commented on my reply on 1 Cor 15:8 , why not , I know you have no answer !!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

Dan, that does not answer my questions. Please quote my questions and then put a "yes" or a "no" underneath the question.

Thanks!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and no Jews were saved by GRACE and Peter also AGREES in Acts 15:11 , you are the only who has not commented on my reply on 1 Cor 15:8 , why not , I know you have no answer !!

How can you possibly say that "no Jews were saved by GRACE" with this verse in view?:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Peter also said this:

"We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:11).​

Now let us look at 1 Corinthians 15:8:

"And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time" (1 Cor.15:8).​

The Greek word translated "due time" denotes " 'an abortion, an untimely birth' from 'ektitrosko', 'to miscarry.' In 1Cr 15:8 the Apostle likens himself to "one born out of due time;" i.e., in point of time, inferior to the rest of the Apostles, as an immature birth comes short of a mature one" (Vine's Expository Dictionay of New Testament Words).

In his commentary on this verse A. R. Fausset writes:

" One born out of due time--Greek, "the one abortively born": the abortion in the family of the apostles. As a child born before the due time is puny, and though born alive, yet not of the proper size, and scarcely worthy of the name of man, so "I am the least of the apostles," scarcely "meet to be called an apostle"; a supernumerary taken into the college of apostles out of regular course, not led to Christ by long instruction, like a natural birth, but by a sudden power, as those prematurely born [GROTIUS]" (Jamieson, Fausset & Brown).​

 

[DAN P]

How can you possibly say that "no Jews were saved by GRACE" with this verse in view?:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Peter also said this:

"We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:11).​

Now let us look at 1 Corinthians 15:8:

"And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time" (1 Cor.15:8).​

The Greek word translated "due time" denotes " 'an abortion, an untimely birth' from 'ektitrosko', 'to miscarry.' In 1Cr 15:8 the Apostle likens himself to "one born out of due time;" i.e., in point of time, inferior to the rest of the Apostles, as an immature birth comes short of a mature one" (Vine's Expository Dictionay of New Testament Words).

In his commentary on this verse A. R. Fausset writes:

" One born out of due time--Greek, "the one abortively born": the abortion in the family of the apostles. As a child born before the due time is puny, and though born alive, yet not of the proper size, and scarcely worthy of the name of man, so "I am the least of the apostles," scarcely "meet to be called an apostle"; a supernumerary taken into the college of apostles out of regular course, not led to Christ by long instruction, like a natural birth, but by a sudden power, as those prematurely born [GROTIUS]" (Jamieson, Fausset & Brown).​

Hi and you should read Rom 4:11 and 12 to see what is meant by the word PROMISE !!

One is in CIRCUMCISION !!

The other in Un-circumcision !!

Two different people and two different MESSAGES !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and you should read Rom 4:11 and 12 to see what is meant by the word PROMISE !!

Since you have no answer to what I wrote all of a sudden you want to change the subject!

 

[DAN P]

Since you have no answer to what I wrote all of a sudden you want to change the subject!

Hi and if you will not any reply from me , than do not answer !!

You have not ADDED any thing to Dispensationalism as the MYSTERY is given and than Administrater , but ALL will see that you are not a DISPENSATIONALIST !!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

"And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time" (1 Cor.15:8).[/INDENT]

The Greek word translated "due time" denotes " 'an abortion, an untimely birth' from 'ektitrosko', 'to miscarry.' In 1Cr 15:8 the Apostle likens himself to "one born out of due time;" i.e., in point of time, inferior to the rest of the Apostles, as an immature birth comes short of a mature one" (Vine's Expository Dictionay of New Testament Words).

In his commentary on this verse A. R. Fausset writes:

" One born out of due time--Greek, "the one abortively born": the abortion in the family of the apostles. As a child born before the due time is puny, and though born alive, yet not of the proper size, and scarcely worthy of the name of man, so "I am the least of the apostles," scarcely "meet to be called an apostle"; a supernumerary taken into the college of apostles out of regular course, not led to Christ by long instruction, like a natural birth, but by a sudden power, as those prematurely born [GROTIUS]" (Jamieson, Fausset & Brown).​

Hi Jerry and here is what fail to see IS ; The one that are born in DUE TIME are obviously the Jewish Nation in Matt 24 and in Rom 11:26 !!

The one BORN OUT of DUE TIME is the Dispensation of the Grace God or the MYSTERY of Rom 16:25 and 26 and in Col 1:25 and 26 !!

1 Cor 15:8 separates Israel from Paul's message , that you can not SEE , called the Revaltion of the Mystery in Rom 16 !!

That is why there is a GAP between Rom 11:25 and Rom 11:26 , and Just as the B O C BEGAN in Acts 9:6 and NOT Acts 7

Your FAILURE to see that Israel was set aside in Acts 13:46 and 18:6 and in 28:28 proves that you are not a dispensationalist but an Acts 2 LEFTY and the reason you use the Gospels to prove salvation !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and if you will not any reply from me , than do not answer !!

You have a BIG problem trying to express what you want to say!

You have not ADDED any thing to Dispensationalism as the MYSTERY is given and than Administrater , but ALL will see that you are not a DISPENSATIONALIST !!

Who can take you seriously?

 

[DAN P]

You have a BIG problem trying to express what you want to say!



Who can take you seriously?

Hi and I am what I am , just as you are , BUT I can show how Paul was SAVED in 1 Cor 15:8 and have one better than that one and you do not !!

If you will not believe 1 Cor 15:8 it is a shame to show aN Acts 7 so-called believer that can show where the B O C began and claim to say Acts 7 with the Un-pardonable sin that ONLY Israel can commit , you have to be KIDDING !!

And your explanation of OIKONOMIA is wrong and keep insisting that it means Stewardship is a different Greek word , so Paul HAD to be given the MYSTERY BEFORE , Paul could become steward of the MYSTERY , in other words you have the CART before HORSE !! How dumb is that ?

dan p

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and I am what I am , just as you are , BUT I can show how Paul was SAVED in 1 Cor 15:8 and have one better than that one and you do not !!

I am still waiting for you to respond to my remarks about what you said here:

Hi and no Jews were saved by GRACE and Peter also AGREES in Acts 15:11 , you are the only who has not commented on my reply on 1 Cor 15:8 , why not , I know you have no answer !!

How can you possibly say that "no Jews were saved by GRACE" with this verse in view?:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Peter also said this:

"We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:11).​

 

[DAN P]

I am still waiting for you to respond to my remarks about what you said here:



How can you possibly say that "no Jews were saved by GRACE" with this verse in view?:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Peter also said this:

"We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:11).​

Hi and I am talking about salvation under the preaching of the MYSTERY , Rom 16:25 and 26 , BUT you are LOST as to what that means !!

You do not understand what Acts 15:11 means !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You do not understand what Acts 15:11 means !!

I sure do:

"We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:11).​

Peter said that he was saved on the principle of grace, the same way that the Gentile believers were saved. We also know that "grace" and "works" are mutually exclusive, as witnessed by what Paul said here:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph.2:8-9).​

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

Therefore, we can understand that Peter and the rest of the Jewish believers who lived under the law were saved APART FROM WORKS.

And it is clear that those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

 

[Danoh]

A little bait, Dan P - what do you believe the following passages prove about Paul?

Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Cntrysner]

Here we see that those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith, the same way that we are saved:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

However, on another thread Clete said that those under the law were saved by grace and in order to receive that grace they must both believe and obey the Law:



Clete fails to understand the basic principle in regard to grace, that if it is of grace then it is not of works, as witnessed by Paul's words here:

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

If one introduces work then the gift of God is void. Salvation equates to enduring to the end but the eternal testament of Christ which was revealed after His death is the new testament which gifts eternal like. The new testament is not a series of books but a better way that supersedes the law.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Salvation equates to enduring to the end but the eternal testament of Christ which was revealed after His death is the new testament which gifts eternal like. The new testament is not a series of books but a better way that supersedes the law.

No, Christians have already received eternal life (1 Jn.5:11) and here is what the Lord Jesus said about those to whom He gives eternal life:

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand"​

(Jn.10:28).​