Salvation by Being Good

Krsto

Well-known member
The perfectly just consequence of sin is permanent separation from God (hell).
I'm glad God isn't "just". At least according to your working definition. If all of our sins, even the most benign, condemns us all then you've just provided the best argument I can think of for God to simply acquit the whole human race. A just God would do that because a just God would never condemn mankind for what man has no ability to avoid. That would be like me telling my 6 year old kids that they must reach my height of six feet before their 7th birthday or I will beat their bottoms until they are black and blue. Nobody would think a father like that is just but you seem to think our Father in heaven is just for sending people to hell for something they could not avoid. You are a sick puppy if you believe this.
 

Krsto

Well-known member
I only trust in the revealed will that is found in scripture. I was converted before I read the Bible. I only began to read the scriptures to discover what had happened to me. Once I began to read I couldn't stop and the reading turned to studying and the studying led to correct translation by exegeses.

So have you been influenced by others or has it been just you and your bible since 1999?
 

Truster

New member
So have you been influenced by others or has it been just you and your bible since 1999?

I have been influenced by the Spirit of Truth and He alone has led me into all the truth I need.

I have studied systematic theology which inevitably gives many options where denominational doctrines are concerned. The Bible is the revealed will of the Almighty and what you have posted is not in line with scriptural doctrine.
 

Krsto

Well-known member
I have been influenced by the Spirit of Truth and He alone has led me into all the truth I need.

I have studied systematic theology which inevitably gives many options where denominational doctrines are concerned. The Bible is the revealed will of the Almighty and what you have posted is not in line with scriptural doctrine.

You know how many people have said exactly the same thing and you all contradict each other? Is there any reason for me to believe you're somehow special and all the other crackpots just don't have what you have?
 

Truster

New member
You know how many people have said exactly the same thing and you all contradict each other? Is there any reason for me to believe you're somehow special and all the other crackpots just don't have what you have?

I don't particularly care what you think or believe.In fact I would strongly advise you to stop messing with religion and get on with whatever you find to do. If the Almighty wants you then He will come for you. If He does then there will be no mistaking it.
 

Krsto

Well-known member
I don't particularly care what you think or believe.In fact I would strongly advise you to stop messing with religion and get on with whatever you find to do. If the Almighty wants you then He will come for you. If He does then there will be no mistaking it.

So no reason for me to believe you are not just another crackpot. Fair enough. I hope that what you believe to be the indisputable truth leads you into righteous living, the joy of our salvation, and blessing to others.

God bless you Brother.
 

Truster

New member
So no reason for me to believe you are not just another crackpot. Fair enough. I hope that what you believe to be the indisputable truth leads you into righteous living, the joy of our salvation, and blessing to others.

God bless you Brother.

I'm not your brother.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
How is this supposed to refute what Jesus said in Lk. 10:25?

"And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, 'Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?'" (Luke 10:25)

It was a legal question, the man was a lawyer.

Jesus asked him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?"

The man answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind and your neighbor as yourself." (Luke 10:27)

This is what's written in the law in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18.

Had the lawyer always complied with the law?

Evidently not because the man asked, "And who is my neighbor?" (Luke 10:29)

He asked this in an attempt to justify himself.

A Samaritan came upon a wounded man and showed him mercy.

Jesus told the lawyer, "Go and do likewise." (Luke 10:37)
 

Epoisses

New member
It's not a different standard, it's a new door into grace so that people can get help with overcoming their sin. The standard of good conduct is still preached in the rest of the New Testament.

Being judged by our conduct and being eternally saved by not being wicked was not altered at the cross but continued to be affirmed in the New Testament as can be seen by:

Peter, who told someone he just needed to repent and made no mention of Christ: "You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray to God, if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven." (Acts 8:21-22)

Peter also said, "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.” (Acts 10:34-35)

James said works are necessary because faith by itself is useless: “Faith, if it has not works, is dead, being alone.” (2:17)

John records what he saw in a vision: “I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.” (Rev. 20:12)

John also said, “The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.” (1 Jn. 1:17)

And then, as if to clarify what John wrote about what Jesus said regarding being born again in the third chapter of John, he says, “Everyone who does what is right has been born of him (God). (1 Jn. 2:29)

Paul informs us the wrath of God is brought on by poor conduct, not lack of faith: “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness.” (Rom. 1:18)

Paul taught you must prove your repentance by your deeds, not prove your faith by your works: "To the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." (Acts 26:20)

Paul, writing to Christians, explains how Christians will receive eternal life: “For [God] will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life...” (Rom. 2:6-7)

Paul taught us that the heathen who never performed the outward acts of the Jewish Law such as circumcision or keeping the Sabbath would be counted as if they had if they fulfilled the righteous requirements of the Law: “If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?” (Rom. 2:26)

Then Paul adds this doosey: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Php. 2:12) What? What’s there to work out and be afraid of when you have faith? Did Paul not get the memo that there is nothing to work out for those who have faith?

The writer of Hebrews said their salvation depends on their work and labor of love, not their faith: “But that which bears thorns and briers (evil works) is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labor of love, which you have shewn toward his name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister.” (Heb. 6:8-10)

And finally, the words of Jesus. Have you seen the tract called The Romans Road to Salvation? Here’s the Matthew Road to Salvation:

Many will say to me in that day, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? And in your name have cast out devils? And in your name done many wonderful works?” And then will I profess unto them, “I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.” (Mt. 7:22-23)

The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned. (**Mt. *12:35-37)‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬

He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. (Mt. 13:37-43)

For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. (Mt. 16:27)

Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.” They also will answer, “Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?” He will reply, “I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.” Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. (Mt. 25:41-46)

That’s five times the writer of Matthew quotes Jesus in a way that does damage to the doctrine of salvation by grace. It’s almost as if someone purposefully put all this at the beginning of our New Testaments so we wouldn’t miss the fact God did not overturn his Old Covenant standard of salvation by not doing evil.

And yet, Evangelicals miss that fact.

Not to be outdone by Matthew, the apostle John also quotes Jesus saying the same things:

Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. (Jn. 5:28-29)

Look, I (Jesus) am coming soon, bringing my reward with me to repay all people according to their deeds. (Rev. 22:12)

When Jesus comes back (or came back if you're a Preterist) he's going to be looking for orthopraxy (right living), not orthodoxy (right belief). No one will be judged by what he believes. Everyone will be judged by what he has done. Those who do wicked deeds need to turn from those deeds before it’s too late. It’s as simple as that.

Truster and Calvinist's in general have no answer for these types of scripture verses where works of obedience are commanded upon believers. Works of true obedience are faith based while works of disobedience are law or flesh based.
 

Krsto

Well-known member
Truster and Calvinist's in general have no answer for these types of scripture verses where works of obedience are commanded upon believers. Works of true obedience are faith based while works of disobedience are law or flesh based.

Yeah I can see that hence his deflection. Not brave enough to take on the scriptures mano a mano. Typical Calvinist.
 

Krsto

Well-known member

So what are you going to do with the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus said, "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be the Children of God?" And, what are you going to do with the scripture in the OP? Ignore it? And the several scriptures in post #14? You just going to sweep them all away with the brush of your hand?
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
How is this supposed to refute what Jesus said in Lk. 10:25? Obviously, there is "good", as in "as good as God", and there's "good," as in "Good enough for God." What kinda "good" are we talking about here?

The man asked what he could do to inherit eternal life, right?

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.​


Eternal life cannot be inherited or earned. It is a Gift of God.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
So what are you going to do with the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus said, "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be the Children of God?" And, what are you going to do with the scripture in the OP? Ignore it? And the several scriptures in post #14? You just going to sweep them all away with the brush of your hand?

The summary of the sermon ends thus:

Matt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.​
 

KingdomRose

New member
Response to the OP, post #1: I agree that people can't earn their own salvation without Christ. Works and belief go hand-in-hand. We accept Christ and then we act in accordance with his teachings. We must do BOTH.
 

KingdomRose

New member
The man asked what he could do to inherit eternal life, right?

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.​


Eternal life cannot be inherited or earned. It is a Gift of God.

Yes....and then you honor Christ's teachings and follow his example, DOING what he said to do.


"Let your light shine before men, that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens." (Matt.5:16)

"Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens." (Matt.7:21)

"You are my friends if you do what I am commanding you." (John 15:14)
 
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