Right Divider
Body part
I'm familiar with the council. That still does not tell me what you're talking about.
Sacrifices
- Thread starter Oleander
- Start date
I'm familiar with the council. That still does not tell me what you're talking about.
I was talking about the First Council of Jerusalem that met to discus circumcision among other old practices from Judaism.
Right Divider
Body part
Again... WHAT about it?
Did you not notice that the rules did NOT apply equally to everyone?
The same man, James, that made this pronouncement says this later in Acts.
You are just an argumentative sort. I said "The Jewish converts to the Jesus movement brought with them old ideas from Judaism. They grappled with what to keep and what to discard. The same can be said for the conversion of Greeks and Romans, the brought many of their old ideas to Paul's version of Christianity. The RCC is full of all sorts of old Pagan relics, holidays, tradition's etc."
You said it was a "ridiculous opinion". I showed you that it was a large issue that occupied the Apostolic Council. But being a quibbler you act like you don't know what I'm talking about.
Jesus told them before he left ""I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.""
Right Divider
Body part
Perhaps you do not understand the purpose of this site.
And YES, I will argue against anti-Christian hokum like the absolute baloney that you slice here.
Fake news... lies.... etc. etc. etc.
Yes, it is. They are only slightly more Christian than you.
You proved nothing. As I showed you, the issue was about GENTILES and NOT Jews.
Another irrelevant comment.
The "kingdom of heaven" is a kingdom on the earth lead by the nation of Israel. I know this will be completely beyond your understanding.
Right Divider
Body part
You say lots of stupid things... what did you win?
YOU is PLURAL. The kingdom of God (i.e., The KING Jesus) was in their midst. The kingdom was AT HAND because the KING had come.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
It's important to define Christ's religion. It's important to know the salient difference between it and every other religion and activity done by man. My take is that it's the Eucharist, it's Mass. The Apostles chose men for the office of bishop, and their duty was to preside over Mass, and especially over the celebration of the Eucharist. This one activity, where members of the Church gathered together in memory of Jesus, distinguishes His religion from every other. The bishops, chosen by the Apostles, presided over Mass during and after the Apostolic era, and they have been the mark of the Church ever since. Wherever they are they celebrate Mass. Every Sunday. Most other days of the week too, but every Sunday anyway. Sunday Mass has been celebrated since Acts 2:42, and it has never ceased being celebrated.
The original "good news" Gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven that people heard and some believed was the Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of ALL mankind, not just an especially chosen few from one nation. That as spirit born sons of God ourselves, salvation is by faith and the responsibility that comes with sonship with God.
The remembrance supper was/is the celebration of the new dispensation of the outpouring of the spirit of the father and son in one grace Gift.
Jesus taught the restoration of loyalty to the Son and the Father, his Father, our Father.
Right Divider
Body part
Jesus taught the law and the prophets. You know... the stuff that you say is all pagan nonsense.
Zenn
New member
Hi Oleander,
I see your question got swept aside rather abruptly by the chinwag between "Right Divider" and "Caino". But it will be hard, if not impossible, for the common Christian to even consider the possibility that God never had wanted anything to do with dead animals or blood sacrifices at all. Why? Because this kind of challenge to the animal sacrificial system is a fundamental challenge to the Mainstream Christian Gospel "Lamb of God" cult that preaches human sacrifices (okay just one) are to be offered to the gods (okay just one).
There are many moving parts to the answer, but I'm curious to know if you already hold a position on this doctrine or not. Is your question "legitimate" or just an "opening move" to "mix it up" a bit?
I don't mind "stirring the pot" but I'm a bit more academic on this topic...
The first instance of an animal being sacrificed to God as an offering is that of Abel:
(Genesis 4:4 KJV) And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect-H8159 unto Abel and to his offering: But drill down into the word H8159. Even a simple Strong's reference starts to show some cracks:
H8159 שָׁעָה shâ‛âh shaw-aw' = A primitive root; to gaze at or about (properly for help); by implication to inspect, consider, compassionate, be nonplussed (as looking around in amazement) or bewildered: - depart, be dim, be dismayed, look (away)
For the sake of brevity, I shall not track down the other 15 times this word H8159 is used, but will mention this one verse:
(Isaiah 41:10 KJV) Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed H8159; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.
In essence, Able drags a bloodied animal as a gift to God and God "had dismay" (was perplexed). By this. But He did not rebuke Able.
(Genesis 4:3-5 KJV) And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had H8159-dismay unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not H8159-dismay . And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
So why did Cain's countenance fall? Because although God was perplexed by Abel's offering, He did not rebuke Abel, and that offended Cain. It is a common human trait that when your fellow brother "drops the ball" he should get a game penalty, or at least be corrected by the coach. Cain was wroth because God did not correct Able. Let's read on...
(Genesis 4:6-7 KJV~) And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If one doest well, shalt one not be accepted? and if one doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
This explains why God did not chastise Abel immediately and why Cain shouldn't worry about it. If Able didst not well, sin lieth at the door, and unto Cain shall become Abel's desire, and Cain shall rule over Abel. In other words, have patience, let Abel figure out his own mistakes, and then, you, Cain, will wind up ruling over Abel. In time, Abel will see the blessings poured out by God upon Cain for his offering and then submit. Unto Cain shall be Abel's desire (Abel will ask Cain why, and then Cain will rule over him.)
But unfortunately, sigh... Cain just couldn't let it go. Cain, like most all of you here want to POUNCE on any doctrinal error you see in others. Cain wanted a chat to FIX the wayward heresy of Abel, and so we have these immortal words.
(Genesis 4:8 KJV) And Cain talked with Abel his brother:
You can see where this is going. Cain trying to show Abel the errors of his ways? Like you all do here in hateful post after post?
Cain: "Hey Abel, God was perplexed with your offering you blasphemer."
Abel: "Screw you Cain."
Cain: "Oh yea? Well you stubborn little ungrateful heretic. Take a flying leap into my new grain thresher here..."
And so the first murder was over doctrinal differences.
There's more. Look closely at the text, God Never told Abraham to sacrifice a Ram. That was Abraham's own idea.
And Moses? They all just escaped out of Egypt and camp at Sinai. Do they offer up animal sacrifices? NO. They don't. They settle back, put up their feet, have a beer, and then in chapter 8 Moses Father in law Jethro joins the party. Jethro, the priest of Midian.
(Exodus 18:5-8 KJV) And Jethro, Moses' father in law, came with his sons and his wife unto Moses into the wilderness, where he encamped at the mount of God: ... And Moses went out to meet his father in law, and did obeisance, and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare; and they came into the tent. And Moses told his father in law all that the LORD had done unto Pharaoh and to the Egyptians for Israel's sake, and all the travail that had come upon them by the way, and how the LORD delivered them.
Now get this.... Jethro didn't even believe in YHWH at that time. How do I know? He said so...
(Exodus 18:9-11 KJV) And Jethro rejoiced for all the goodness which the LORD had done to Israel, whom he had delivered out of the hand of the Egyptians. And Jethro said, Blessed be the LORD, who hath delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of Pharaoh, who hath delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians. Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.
So what does Jethro do?
(Exodus 18:12 KJV) And Jethro, Moses' father in law, took a burnt offering and sacrifices for God: and Aaron came, and all the elders of Israel, to eat bread with Moses' father in law before God.
There ya have it. Moses learned this from Jethro, and then what?
(Exodus 18:24 KJV) So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said.
Which is why God tried to fix this through Jeremiah:
(Jeremiah 7:22 KJV) For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
As a matter of fact, the entire passage is worth reading (if you guys actually read scripture that is posted):
(Jeremiah 7:2-28 KJV) Stand in the gate of the LORD'S house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the LORD, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the LORD. Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place. Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these. For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour; If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt: Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever. Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not; And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD. But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel. And now, because ye have done all these works, saith the LORD, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not; Therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh. And I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, even the whole seed of Ephraim. Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee. Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces? Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched. Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh. For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you. But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward. Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them: Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers. Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee. But thou shalt say unto them, This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the LORD their God, nor receiveth correction: truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.
And yes, I know of the lame excuse trying to limit this "speaking not" to the trip from Egypt to the mountain, but Stephen knows better:
(Acts 7:42-43 NRSV) ... as it is written in the book of the prophets: ‘Did you offer to me slain victims and sacrifices forty years in the wilderness, O house of Israel? No; you took along the tent of Moloch, and the star of your god Rephan, the images that you made to worship; so I will remove you beyond Babylon.’
Jeremiah 7:22 covers the forty years in the wilderness. WHAT ?!?! THERE IS THE LAW you cry out.
(Jeremiah 8:8 NRSV) How can you say, “We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us,” when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?
(Exodus 18:24 KJV) So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said.
Moses adopted it. But even Jesus said that Moses added things to the Law. (But I'll need to leave this for later, as it's getting late.)
Right now, though, I would ask... Can you pay somebody to forgive you?
Kindly,
Zenn
Zenn
New member
Hi Oleander,
I see your question got swept aside rather abruptly by the chinwag between "Right Divider" and "Caino". But it will be hard, if not impossible, for the common Christian to even consider the possibility that God never had wanted anything to do with dead animals or blood sacrifices at all. Why? Because this kind of challenge to the animal sacrificial system is a fundamental challenge to the Mainstream Christian Gospel "Lamb of God" cult that preaches human sacrifices (okay just one) are to be offered to the gods (okay just one).
There are many moving parts to the answer, but I'm curious to know if you already hold a position on this doctrine or not. Is your question "legitimate" or just an "opening move" to "mix it up" a bit?
I don't mind "stirring the pot" but I'm a bit more academic on this topic...
The first instance of an animal being sacrificed to God as an offering is that of Abel:
(Genesis 4:4 KJV) And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect-H8159 unto Abel and to his offering: But drill down into the word H8159. Even a simple Strong's reference starts to show some cracks:
H8159 שָׁעָה shâ‛âh shaw-aw' = A primitive root; to gaze at or about (properly for help); by implication to inspect, consider, compassionate, be nonplussed (as looking around in amazement) or bewildered: - depart, be dim, be dismayed, look (away)
For the sake of brevity, I shall not track down the other 15 times this word H8159 is used, but will mention this one verse:
(Isaiah 41:10 KJV) Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed H8159; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.
In essence, Able drags a bloodied animal as a gift to God and God "had dismay" (was perplexed). By this. But He did not rebuke Able.
(Genesis 4:3-5 KJV) And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had H8159-dismay unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not H8159-dismay . And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
So why did Cain's countenance fall? Because although God was perplexed by Abel's offering, He did not rebuke Abel, and that offended Cain. It is a common human trait that when your fellow brother "drops the ball" he should get a game penalty, or at least be corrected by the coach. Cain was wroth because God did not correct Able. Let's read on...
(Genesis 4:6-7 KJV~) And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If one doest well, shalt one not be accepted? and if one doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
This explains why God did not chastise Abel immediately and why Cain shouldn't worry about it. If Able didst not well, sin lieth at the door, and unto Cain shall become Abel's desire, and Cain shall rule over Abel. In other words, have patience, let Abel figure out his own mistakes, and then, you, Cain, will wind up ruling over Abel. In time, Abel will see the blessings poured out by God upon Cain for his offering and then submit. Unto Cain shall be Abel's desire (Abel will ask Cain why, and then Cain will rule over him.)
But unfortunately, sigh... Cain just couldn't let it go. Cain, like most all of you here want to POUNCE on any doctrinal error you see in others. Cain wanted a chat to FIX the wayward heresy of Abel, and so we have these immortal words.
(Genesis 4:8 KJV) And Cain talked with Abel his brother:
You can see where this is going. Cain trying to show Abel the errors of his ways? Like you all do here in hateful post after post?
Cain: "Hey Abel, God was perplexed with your offering you blasphemer."
Abel: "Screw you Cain."
Cain: "Oh yea? Well you stubborn little ungrateful heretic. Take a flying leap into my new grain thresher here..."
filedata/fetch?id=2777088&d=1605429018
And so the first murder was over doctrinal differences.
There's more. Look closely at the text, God Never told Abraham to sacrifice a Ram. That was Abraham's own idea.
And Moses? They all just escaped out of Egypt and camp at Sinai. Do they offer up animal sacrifices? NO. They don't. They settle back, put up their feet, have a beer, and then in chapter 8 Moses Father in law Jethro joins the party. Jethro, the priest of Midian.
(Exodus 18:5-8 KJV) And Jethro, Moses' father in law, came with his sons and his wife unto Moses into the wilderness, where he encamped at the mount of God: ... And Moses went out to meet his father in law, and did obeisance, and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare; and they came into the tent. And Moses told his father in law all that the LORD had done unto Pharaoh and to the Egyptians for Israel's sake, and all the travail that had come upon them by the way, and how the LORD delivered them.
Now get this.... Jethro didn't even believe in YHWH at that time. How do I know? He said so...
(Exodus 18:9-11 KJV) And Jethro rejoiced for all the goodness which the LORD had done to Israel, whom he had delivered out of the hand of the Egyptians. And Jethro said, Blessed be the LORD, who hath delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of Pharaoh, who hath delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians. Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.
So what does Jethro do?
(Exodus 18:12 KJV) And Jethro, Moses' father in law, took a burnt offering and sacrifices for God: and Aaron came, and all the elders of Israel, to eat bread with Moses' father in law before God.
There ya have it. Moses learned this from Jethro, and then what?
(Exodus 18:24 KJV) So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said.
Which is why God tried to fix this through Jeremiah:
(Jeremiah 7:22 KJV) For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
As a matter of fact, the entire passage is worth reading (if you guys actually read scripture that is posted):
(Jeremiah 7:2-28 KJV) Stand in the gate of the LORD'S house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the LORD, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the LORD. Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place. Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these. For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour; If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt: Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever. Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not; And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD. But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel. And now, because ye have done all these works, saith the LORD, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not; Therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh. And I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, even the whole seed of Ephraim. Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee. Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces? Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched. Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh. For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you. But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward. Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them: Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers. Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee. But thou shalt say unto them, This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the LORD their God, nor receiveth correction: truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.
And yes, I know of the lame excuse trying to limit this "speaking not" to the trip from Egypt to the mountain, but Stephen knows better:
(Acts 7:42-43 NRSV) ... as it is written in the book of the prophets: ‘Did you offer to me slain victims and sacrifices forty years in the wilderness, O house of Israel? No; you took along the tent of Moloch, and the star of your god Rephan, the images that you made to worship; so I will remove you beyond Babylon.’
Jeremiah 7:22 covers the forty years in the wilderness. WHAT ?!?! THERE IS THE LAW you cry out.
(Jeremiah 8:8 NRSV) How can you say, “We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us,” when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?
(Exodus 18:24 KJV) So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said.
Moses adopted it. But even Jesus said that Moses added things to the Law. (But I'll need to leave this for later, as it's getting late.)
Right now, though, I would ask... Can you pay somebody to forgive you? filedata/fetch?id=2777089&d=1605431496
Kindly,
Zenn
TOL has been running slow.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Yeah, that's not too bad! Of course what you're describing here still exists today, it has persisted throughout all these centuries. Come, to Mass.
Lon
Well-known member
Well, not in Sadler's rendition, but:
Then Hebrews 9:22 "The LAW requires it" Leviticus 5:11 Leviticus 17:11 Ezekiel 43:18
So Sadler and Kellogg simply 'assert' sight unseen "God never..." and you buy it hook, line, and sinker. You are a caught fish. When you stand before God, you can assert all you like: He calls the shots. You and I will listen. You nor Sadler are on par with God. You neither Kellogg wrestled with God. You will, and you will stand/fall on your own arrogance and self-will. "Shall a man contend with God?" Answer: Nope. Nice try. Lesson: Don't be arrogant, follow God, not your 'own sensibilities.' Proverbs 3:5,6 My life verse.
Better than the thoughts of men. You are guilty for using your own values, as poor as they are, without redemption, against a holy God. You are arrogant and audacious and will stand before God. The scripture says 'weeping' and/or 'gnashing of teeth.' "Depart, I never knew you" and in your arrogance, you never once feigned you were beneath a holy God. You are just this willful and ignorantly arrogant. You have nothing to thank God for, except in your head, for putting you on par with Him, as amazing, holy, and wonderful as your drug-addled mind allows you to be.
YOU don't. You don't even need it! He came for the unhealthy. You? You raised yourself up by your own petards. John 15:5 "Without Me, you cannot do even one single thing." James 4:
13Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business, and make a profit.” 14You do not even know what will happen tomorrow! What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.
15Instead, you ought to say, “If the Lord is willing, we will live and do this or that.” 16As it is, you boast in your proud intentions. All such boasting is evil.
You are that man, Caino. You are exactly this arrogant and haughty.
Platitude. An assertion you bought and repeat without thinking deeply or well.
Yes, and you reject the Son. "Kiss the Son lest He be angry." Your lovey dovey God who loves everybody is universal salvation and no individual accountability. Oh, I know Sadler and Kellogg deny that, but it is exactly what it amounts to. Here is the bottom line: You and I don't GET to make up our own truth. You've rejected the Bible in its entirety and bought what two completely forgettable men thought about God with nothing but, by their own words: Lying spirts who purposefully allowed them to produce things that can be later corrected but they knew were wrong, put their stamp of approval on. Your whole house of cards is a lie. I'm just a rock crying in the wilderness. I pray often you will come to a true encounter with the living God. Jesus left the Pharisees where they were, because they were so hard-hearted. Grace to Pharaoh merely hardened his heart. You get hard-hearted more, every time we talk, Caino. You are worse and worse and more and more in need of grace. You have a LOT to be forgiven for! I do too, the difference is I know it. You walk all over God all the time in your arrogance.
You lack the courage to defend the character of God.
In the original Gospel Jesus taught salvation by Faith and forgiveness by receiving it from God the Father, his Father our Father. Of course that angered the lucrative institution of Judaism.
Its you who measure the possibilities of the goodness of God by your own limitations and then hate on others who can see what you are blind to..
Certain forms of religion and traditionalism are actually a clever diversion from having a personal relationship with God, a life dedicated to seeking and doing the will of God. Believers are actually supposed to change instead of just keep saying sorry, offering sacrificial bribes or hanging onto the "theory" that sacrificing Jesus back to God paid a debt for you. The cross represents a far more mature act of Love for mankind then you give it credit for.
I only reject the untrue parts of the Bible. Its always been obvious to me even as a child that the people who rejected and killed Jesus were capable of exaggerating their own history. You are forced to believe things because they are in the scripture not because they sound true.
Right Divider
Body part
The "character of God" is defined in His BOOK that you so despise.
Jesus taught the law, including the sacrifices.
Without the shedding of the blood of the Spotless Lamb of God there is no remission of sins.