Sabbath

Squeaky

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Relax your milkshakes arent good...taste and see...


I said
lol Your deception is obvious though-

[Gal 2:4
[4] And [this occurred] because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),
 

clefty

New member
I said
lol Your deception is obvious though-

[Gal 2:4
[4] And [this occurred] because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),

Bondage is thinking you have to do something to be saved...that was NEVER taught is why they were FALSE brethren...demanding something done in order to be saved...NEVER taught...

What is taught is that because you are saved you WANT to do various things...see? That is Liberty!!...not liberty to sin though ok?

I mean I know you think only FIVE of the 10 are binding since He only mentioned 5 but we are NOT at liberty to sin...at all...

Liberty because we have Yahushua and now we WANT to do various things like pray we dont have to flee in future winter times or Sabbaths as fleeing is not resting...
 

Squeaky

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Bondage is thinking you have to do something to be saved...that was NEVER taught is why they were FALSE brethren...demanding something done in order to be saved...NEVER taught...

What is taught is that because you are saved you WANT to do various things...see? That is Liberty!!...not liberty to sin though ok?

I mean I know you think only FIVE of the 10 are binding since He only mentioned 5 but we are NOT at liberty to sin...at all...

Liberty because we have Yahushua and now we WANT to do various things like pray we dont have to flee in future winter times or Sabbaths as fleeing is not resting...

I said
lolol
 

DansingWall

New member
I said
They ask Jesus which of the 10 commandments to keep and Jesus told them. If you will notice the Sabbath is not in there.

[Mat 19:17-19
[17] So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one [is] good but One, [that is], God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
[18] He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, "'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,'
[19] 'Honor your father and [your] mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "

If you will notice

And God spake all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

You wont find the 1st commandment mentioned there either. So what are you saying?
 

clefty

New member
If you will notice

And God spake all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

You wont find the 1st commandment mentioned there either. So what are you saying?

Would wish you noticed that neither the 2nd nor 3rd nor 4th nor 10th were listed...and one which was NOT in the 10 was listed...

But I guess because they were NOT listed we don’t have to bother with keeping them...So we ARE free to worship another god, make idols, blashpeme His name and covet the ways of the world...well that DOES explain a lot around here...LOL

It is the same argument many christians use when they insist only 4 things were required of the goyim crowding the synagogues every Sabbath...the rest didnt apply...LOL...so the goyim were free to murder lie steal make idols blaspheme His name worship another god covet dishonor their elders...worship any day everyday...

As if only 4 requirements would suffice...apparently they could even bring Swine flesh to eat at potlucks at the synagogue but as long as it was not offered to another god...and killed kosher style and drained of its blood...

What most miss is that James concluded his expectations that Moses would continue to be preached and read to these goyim in every city on EVERY SABBATH...

Peter was clear Yah made NO DISTINCION between believing jews and believing goyim Acts 15:9 why should we?

Why should we rebuild that wall jews built to seperate themselves rather than live as they did when the church was in the wilderness full of goyim but still ONE LAW for native and foreigner...
 

DansingWall

New member
I said
lol Your deception is obvious though-

[Gal 2:4
[4] And [this occurred] because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),

JAMES 2 [8] If ye fulfil THE ROYAL LAW according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be JUDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY

Do not commit adultry, do not kill (the 10 commandments) and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. Keep ALL 10. Ya practice to break one, your guilty of all {verse 10}. You are a transgressor. Do you keep Gods day of rest (the sabbath) or do you keep mans day of rest?

JAMES 1 [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.[23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:[24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.[25] But whoso looketh into THE PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY, and continueth therein, he being NOT A FORGETFUL HEARER, BUT A DOER OF THE WORK, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

ROMANS 2 [12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13] (For NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST before God, but THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

The perfect law of liberty. Blessed be the man that be a doer of the work. Work??? Bad word for some.

PSALM 119 [42] So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.[43] And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.[44] So shall I KEEP THY LAW continually for ever and ever.[45] And I WILL WALK AT LIBERTY: for I seek thy precepts.[46] I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.[47] And I WILL DELIGHT MYSELF IN THY COMMANDMENTS, which I have loved.

So shall I keep thy law continually AND delight myself in thy commandments and WILL WALK AT LIBERTY. That cant be misinterpreted
 

DansingWall

New member
I said
lol Your deception is obvious though-

[Gal 2:4
[4] And [this occurred] because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),

As i said before. The book of Galatians is all bout circumcision. As is the bondage.

GALATIANS 4 [21] Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? [22] For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. [23] But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. [24] Which things are an allegory: for these are the TWO COVENANTS; THE ONE FROM THE MOUNT SINAI, WHICH GENDERETH TO BONDAGE, WHICH IS AGAR. [25] For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. [26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.......... [30] Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Is the above scripture speaking of the 10 commandments as the many claim or is it simply speaking of circumcision?

EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

ACTS 7 [8] And he gave him the COVENANT OF CIRCUMCISION: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.

BOTH the 10 commandments and circumcision were givin as “covenants”

EXODUS 24 [12] And the Lord said unto Moses, COME UP TO ME INTO THE MOUNT, and be there: and I WILL GIVE THEE tables of stone, AND A LAW, AND COMMANDMENTS which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

LEVITICUS 7 [37] THIS IS THE LAW OF THE BURNT OFFERING, of the meat offering, and of the sin offering, and of the trespass offering, and of the consecrations, and of the sacrifice of the peace offerings; [38] WHICH THE LORD COMMANDED MOSES IN MOUNT SINAI, in the day that he commanded the children of Israel to offer their oblations unto the Lord, in the wilderness of Sinai.

Both covenants, the 10 commandments and the law of Moses were given at Mt Sinai.

JOHN 7 [21] Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.[22] MOSES THEREFORE GAVE UNTO YOU CIRCUMCISION; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.[23] If a man on the sabbath day RECEIVE CIRCUMCISION, THAT THE LAW OF MOSES SHOULD NOT BE BROKEN; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Circumcision is of the law of Moses and given at Sinai. So which of these, the 10 commandments or circumcision do the scriptures say bring us into “bondage” {Gal.4:24}?

And the winner is....

GALATIANS 5 [1] Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and BE NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN WITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE. [2] Behold, I Paul say unto you, that IF YE BE CIRCUMCISED, CHRIST SHALL PROFIT YOU NOTHING.

And again...

GALATIANS 2 [3] But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was COMPELLED TO BE CIRCUMCISED: [4]And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might BRING US INTO BONDAGE:
 

Squeaky

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This is talking about the old testament law and the new testament grace. And it uses the example of Abraham and his two sons. Abraham was promised a son by God. But long before this his wife didnt think she could give him a son so she got one of her slaves to bet pregnant by Abraham and she gave Abraham a son. Then God promised him a son when he was old and gave him and his wife one. One son under bandage, one son by promise. And the example of one born according to the flesh and one born according to the Spirit. These are symbolic examples of the new testament and the old testament.

[Gal 4:21-31
[21] Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
[22] For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.
[23] But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise,
[24] which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar--
[25] for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children--
[26] but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. [27] For it is written: "Rejoice, O barren, [You] who do not bear! Break forth and shout, You who are not in labor! For the desolate has many more children Than she who has a husband."
[28] Now we, brethren, as Isaac [was], are children of promise.
[29] But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him [who was born] according to the Spirit, even so [it is] now.
[30] Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."
[31] So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

[Gal 5:1-4
[1] Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
[2] Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
[3] And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
[4] You have become estranged from Christ, you who [attempt to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
 

clefty

New member
JAMES 2 [8] If ye fulfil THE ROYAL LAW according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be JUDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY

Do not commit adultry, do not kill (the 10 commandments) and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. Keep ALL 10. Ya practice to break one, your guilty of all {verse 10}. You are a transgressor. Do you keep Gods day of rest (the sabbath) or do you keep mans day of rest?

JAMES 1 [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.[23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:[24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.[25] But whoso looketh into THE PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY, and continueth therein, he being NOT A FORGETFUL HEARER, BUT A DOER OF THE WORK, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

ROMANS 2 [12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13] (For NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST before God, but THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

The perfect law of liberty. Blessed be the man that be a doer of the work. Work??? Bad word for some.

PSALM 119 [42] So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.[43] And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.[44] So shall I KEEP THY LAW continually for ever and ever.[45] And I WILL WALK AT LIBERTY: for I seek thy precepts.[46] I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.[47] And I WILL DELIGHT MYSELF IN THY COMMANDMENTS, which I have loved.

So shall I keep thy law continually AND delight myself in thy commandments and WILL WALK AT LIBERTY. That cant be misinterpreted

Indeed...now we have IN HIM salvation secured and not just promised obviously we WANT to do the works...and NOT because you HAVE to...

Is why the goyim crowded the synagogues every Sabbath to hear Moses preached and read and to hear Paul speak of One Who not only rose from a cruel Roman death but made the promise of Israel, life here after, available to them the unclean gotim...again...

“Please tell us more NEXT SABBATH” believing goyim begged of Paul neither wishing to meet on the next day or for mid week bible studies on Mars Hills...but waiting until the next Sabbath almost the whole city WANTED to come...
 

Rosenritter

New member
Why isnt the supposed change of Gods 4th commandment discussed anywhere? All through the new testament circumcision is discussed frequently. The whole book of Galatians is about whether they needed to be circumsized or not. The Jews couldnt handle the change. Could you imagine how many discussions there would be if they were told they need not keep the 4th commandment of God? Yikes! It would be discussed in every book of the new testament. And yet....not one word. No discussions. Zero

The 4th commandment wasn't changed, the commandments in whole were annulled.

Colossians 2:13-17 KJV
(13) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
(16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Hebrews 8:13 KJV
(13) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

That old covenant was with a different people in a different time and it isn't available for anyone any more. Regardless, why would you want the old covenant when the new covenant is given to us? The Old Covenant had promises concerning land in Canaan but none pertaining to eternal life.
 

Rosenritter

New member
The old testament says God will prove you, as to whether you are found to be a liar. And this will be accomplished by as to whether you keep the ten commandments or you don’t {Deut.4 v2}. Are there any new testament scriptures that verify what is said in Proverbs 30?

1JOHN2 [3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.[4] HE THAT SAITH, I KNOW HIM, AND KEEPETH NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Yup

Can you explain the meaning of the word "covenant?" Even a dictionary definition would be fine.
 

Rosenritter

New member
I said
lol No but you argue like a girl. That is why I was wondering. They dont go by scriptures they go by emotions. And you keep getting all emotional on me.

That was a bit bigoted / sexist. "They dont go by scriptures they go by emotions?"
 

Rosenritter

New member
If you will notice

And God spake all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

You wont find the 1st commandment mentioned there either. So what are you saying?

Luke 18:21-22 KJV
(21) And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
(22) Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

That would have fulfilled the first commandment with what Jesus instructed in verse 22.
 

clefty

New member
The 4th commandment wasn't changed, the commandments in whole were annulled.

Colossians 2:13-17 KJV
(13) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
(16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Greek has past tense for things that used to exist but Paul wrote “ARE” not “were”...nor did he write “will soon not be”

Why would non believing jews judge believing goyim NOT keeping the sabbath?

Why would believing jews judge goyim for not keeping the Sabbath IF it was abolished?

Hebrews 8:13 KJV
(13) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
yes very good...He lived and taught that covenant prior His death and after the testator to a last will dies NO CHANGES

That old covenant was with a different people in a different time and it isn't available for anyone any more. Regardless, why would you want the old covenant when the new covenant is given to us? The Old Covenant had promises concerning land in Canaan but none pertaining to eternal life.

Good very good...and He taught and lived that new covenant lifestyle...follow Him His Way...WWJD? Do that...no Sunday ham dinners okay?
 

Rosenritter

New member
Greek has past tense for things that used to exist but Paul wrote “ARE” not “were”...nor did he write “will soon not be”

And what is your point? They if they will soon NOT be shadows of things to come, that would mean that what they pointed to was about to immediately happen. Hindsight shows us that the fulfillment of those things is still a thousand years plus in coming.

Why would non believing jews judge believing goyim NOT keeping the sabbath? Why would believing jews judge goyim for not keeping the Sabbath IF it was abolished?

Because some Jews didn't understand the New Covenant and thought it was an extension of the old. That is why Paul chastised them and told them that the Old Covenant was replaced with the New, and that they were not to judge others according to the Sabbaths. Is there a reason you choose to ignore these passages? Or do you not believe that anyone would be stubborn and cling to traditions?

yes very good...He lived and taught that covenant prior His death and after the testator to a last will dies NO CHANGES

The New Covenant was put into effect until his blood was shed. What part about "New" do you not understand? Do you really think it is a synonym for "old?"

Good very good...and He taught and lived that new covenant lifestyle...follow Him His Way...WWJD? Do that...no Sunday ham dinners okay?

Mark 7:18-20 KJV
(18) And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
(19) Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
(20) And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

Acts 11:8-9 KJV
(8) But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
(9) But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
 

clefty

New member
And what is your point?
only that the Colossians were keeping the Sabbath and Paul affirms that no one but the Body of Christ could judge them for doing so...as all these ARE the shadow of things to come...still...even after Pentecost...so the jewish false witness that Yahushua changed the custom was exactly that FALSE...He didnt change anything during the time of His life when He demonstrated the New Testament lifestyle before signing and sealing the testament...and NOW NO CHANGES...so of course there is NO DISTINCTION made between believing jews and believing goyim as ONE LAW was for them...and they were still following the shadows that ARE pointing to things yet to come...that’s a pretty good point I might add...is why the goyim were crowding the synagogues...and neither Peter NOR Paul said anything about these Shadows “ending soon...or in 40 years or when the temple was destroyed”

Makes sense that Yahushua instructed prayers be said that fleeing future times of trouble would not come in winter times or on the Sabbath as fleeing is NOT resting ya dig?

They if they will soon NOT be shadows of things to come, that would mean that what they pointed to was about to immediately happen. Hindsight shows us that the fulfillment of those things is still a thousand years plus in coming.
ok so there you said it yourself...these ARE shadows of things to come EVEN STILL

Is why worship on Sundays took 200+ years to become the new tradition...all those years after the new covenant was SEALED thus NO CHANGES...and yet there was one boasting to change both times and laws...imagine that...



Because some Jews didn't understand the New Covenant and thought it was an extension of the old.
because it was...if it was NOT then that would have EASILY BEEN TAUGHT EVEN DEMONSTRATED

That is why Paul chastised them and told them that the Old Covenant was replaced with the New, and that they were not to judge others according to the Sabbaths. Is there a reason you choose to ignore these passages? Or do you not believe that anyone would be stubborn and cling to traditions?
you do realize that the jerusalem council was met to conclude what was expected of these goyim crowding the synagogues who WANTED to hear more...each Sabbath...

You do realize the 4 things were ALREADY required of goyim to fellowship and associate within Israel already when the church was back in the wilderness...and James concluded that this crowding goyim WOULD KEEP hearing Moses preached and read...AND WANT TO OBEY...because well the Holy Spirit was given to those that OBEYED and Peter made quite clear that Yah made NO DISTINCTION between believing jews and believing goyim Acts 15:9

Worshipping new ways on new days would be a distinction yes?



The New Covenant was put into effect until his blood was shed. What part about "New" do you not understand? Do you really think it is a synonym for "old?"
new husband new bride same taste in woman...faithful and obedient to the same list of terms...

Not one christian I know protests against no worshipping another god...or making idols...or blaspheming His name or dishonoring parents or not stealing or not murdering or not adulterating or not lying or not coveting...so how many is that? 9 yup 9 out of 10 but bring up the Sabbath and then its “AWWW HELL NO!...that is abolished...fulfilled...changed...” and if they are really MAD “that doesnt apply to me in this dispensations” or something LOL

Your NEW COVENANT was demonstrated and lived and taught BEFORE He died...what is so different about His life that does NOT fulfillthe OT LAW?

You think the NEW TESTAMENT COUNTERS PRIOR LAW? Suddenly its “OH whatever do what you want” as if a good parent would finally concede to the nagging brat...HARDLY...is the Law made void? CERTAINLY NOT! We establish the LAW so what is NEW ABOUT THIS LAW WE ESTABLISH? We get to steal? LIE...apparently

It was jewish false witness in attempts to slander both Stephen and Paul with claims they taught Yahushua changed their customs...LUKE was clear this WAS FALSE WITNESS because if they were teaching this it would NOT be FALSE but TRUE WITNESS...



Mark 7:18-20 KJV
(18) And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
(19) Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
(20) And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
yes putting a pork roast into your mouth means your heart and mind are already UNCLEAN to do so...you think the needle of a tattoo artist makes you unclean? Of course not it is the thinking of what to tattoo and where and by who and how much that already makes you unclean LONG before the ink is injected...

Acts 11:8-9 KJV
(8) But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
(9) But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

And Peter interprets and explains this vision not once but TWICE and both times he makes clear that it is about eating bacon....mmmmm...shell fish...but about about reaching out to the formerly unclean goyim...

But as it was already in the OT it was ONE LAW for native and goyim...but the jews had built new laws and new walls to keep the dirty goyim out...and preferred to keep the blessings and promises to themselves rather than making His house a house of prayer for ALL nations...now IN HIM the author of the new covenant it was AGAIN as it was before ONE LAW for native and goyim alike...new jew no goyim IN HIM...

NO DISTINCTION as Peter preached...why you insist there is? To believe jewish fables Titus 1:14?

To assist their agenda to keep it for themselves a monopoly to heal the world I am sure...tikkum olam...pretty much the MO for that conspiracy found in Judah...

Sabbath was made for MAN...not just jews...unless you believe man and not Yah...your choice
 

Rosenritter

New member
only that the Colossians were keeping the Sabbath and Paul affirms that no one but the Body of Christ could judge them for doing so...as all these ARE the shadow of things to come...still...even after Pentecost...so the jewish false witness that Yahushua changed the custom was exactly that FALSE...He didnt change anything during the time of His life when He demonstrated the New Testament lifestyle before signing and sealing the testament...and NOW NO CHANGES...so of course there is NO DISTINCTION made between believing jews and believing goyim as ONE LAW was for them...and they were still following the shadows that ARE pointing to things yet to come...that’s a pretty good point I might add...is why the goyim were crowding the synagogues...and neither Peter NOR Paul said anything about these Shadows “ending soon...or in 40 years or when the temple was destroyed”

Makes sense that Yahushua instructed prayers be said that fleeing future times of trouble would not come in winter times or on the Sabbath as fleeing is NOT resting ya dig?

ok so there you said it yourself...these ARE shadows of things to come EVEN STILL

Is why worship on Sundays took 200+ years to become the new tradition...all those years after the new covenant was SEALED thus NO CHANGES...and yet there was one boasting to change both times and laws...imagine that...



because it was...if it was NOT then that would have EASILY BEEN TAUGHT EVEN DEMONSTRATED

you do realize that the jerusalem council was met to conclude what was expected of these goyim crowding the synagogues who WANTED to hear more...each Sabbath...

You do realize the 4 things were ALREADY required of goyim to fellowship and associate within Israel already when the church was back in the wilderness...and James concluded that this crowding goyim WOULD KEEP hearing Moses preached and read...AND WANT TO OBEY...because well the Holy Spirit was given to those that OBEYED and Peter made quite clear that Yah made NO DISTINCTION between believing jews and believing goyim Acts 15:9

Worshipping new ways on new days would be a distinction yes?



new husband new bride same taste in woman...faithful and obedient to the same list of terms...

Not one christian I know protests against no worshipping another god...or making idols...or blaspheming His name or dishonoring parents or not stealing or not murdering or not adulterating or not lying or not coveting...so how many is that? 9 yup 9 out of 10 but bring up the Sabbath and then its “AWWW HELL NO!...that is abolished...fulfilled...changed...” and if they are really MAD “that doesnt apply to me in this dispensations” or something LOL

Your NEW COVENANT was demonstrated and lived and taught BEFORE He died...what is so different about His life that does NOT fulfillthe OT LAW?

You think the NEW TESTAMENT COUNTERS PRIOR LAW? Suddenly its “OH whatever do what you want” as if a good parent would finally concede to the nagging brat...HARDLY...is the Law made void? CERTAINLY NOT! We establish the LAW so what is NEW ABOUT THIS LAW WE ESTABLISH? We get to steal? LIE...apparently

It was jewish false witness in attempts to slander both Stephen and Paul with claims they taught Yahushua changed their customs...LUKE was clear this WAS FALSE WITNESS because if they were teaching this it would NOT be FALSE but TRUE WITNESS...



yes putting a pork roast into your mouth means your heart and mind are already UNCLEAN to do so...you think the needle of a tattoo artist makes you unclean? Of course not it is the thinking of what to tattoo and where and by who and how much that already makes you unclean LONG before the ink is injected...



And Peter interprets and explains this vision not once but TWICE and both times he makes clear that it is about eating bacon....mmmmm...shell fish...but about about reaching out to the formerly unclean goyim...

But as it was already in the OT it was ONE LAW for native and goyim...but the jews had built new laws and new walls to keep the dirty goyim out...and preferred to keep the blessings and promises to themselves rather than making His house a house of prayer for ALL nations...now IN HIM the author of the new covenant it was AGAIN as it was before ONE LAW for native and goyim alike...new jew no goyim IN HIM...

NO DISTINCTION as Peter preached...why you insist there is? To believe jewish fables Titus 1:14?

To assist their agenda to keep it for themselves a monopoly to heal the world I am sure...tikkum olam...pretty much the MO for that conspiracy found in Judah...

Sabbath was made for MAN...not just jews...unless you believe man and not Yah...your choice

Preface:

1. Please stop using the term "goyim." It's offensive and I'm not the only person who's agreed on this.

2. Using complete sentences would make your writing seem more coherent and enable it to be more easily understood.

Body:

3. Please explain what you mean by your assertion that "only that the Colossians were keeping the Sabbath?"
a) Do you mean that every Colossian was keeping Sabbaths?
b) Or do you mean that at least some of the Colossians were keeping Sabbaths?

That's the only way I can interpret your statement, but scripture doesn't affirm either one of those meanings. I can interpret Col 2:16 to mean that at least some new Christians were attempting to keep Sabbaths, but from the words we are given that isn't necessarily in the church of the Colossians. Paul could have also been referring to Jews in Jerusalem who were judging against the Colossian brethren.

4) You are asserting that the Gentile coverts were keeping sabbaths, holy days, abstaining from unclean meats, and who knows how many other Old Covenant of the Law of Moses, and that this was so common and understood that it is never mentioned. the problem with your assertion is that it remains unproven and not backed by scripture or other historical evidence.

To the contrary, Peter calls the Old Covenant laws "a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear" (see Acts 15:10) and instead of saying that the Gentiles shall be saved even as the Jews, he puts it the other way around, "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they" (Acts 15:211).

Do not repeat your assertion as if it were accepted fact unless and until you can provide evidence. Otherwise you are just mouthing hot air, and it isn't convincing anyone (therefore, what is the point?)

5) Jesus did say to pray that their flight be not in the winter or the Sabbath. He did NOT say that the fleeing would be "transgressing the Sabbath" any more than the fleeing would be "transgressing the Winter." I trust that you have enough semblance of logic to see the obvious hole in your claim / assumption. Fleeing in the winter is difficult because it it cold. Fleeing on the Sabbath is difficult because the Jews close the gates to the city. The focus was on fleeing regardless of winter or sabbaths. That passage does not lend support your claim.

6) Those shadows already fulfilled their purpose, and they were part of a covenant that God himself broke with the people. I don't suppose you noticed when we are told that the law was "not the very image of the things" to come. God is not returning to earth to reestablish Mosiac law or the Old Covenant, that law is not the image of that which is to come.

Colossians 2:14-17 KJV(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
(16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Hebrews 10:1-2 KJV
(1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
(2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

Notice that "the law" includes both the handwriting of ordinances and the sacrifices which were offered by priests. If you are saying that we should all be keeping sabbaths, are you at least consistent in saying that we should also be offering animal sacrifices? For these are both equal parts of the law. I doubt that you are being consistent.

7) You have not demonstrated that the New Covenant is simply an extension of the Old.
That is the exact opposite of what we are told in Hebrews 8:13, where the Old Covenant is even called "that which decayeth and waxeth old." The Old Covenant was decaying even then. That is not language that agrees with your assertion.

8) You seem to think that it was significant that people met in the synagogues. It's not significant at all it's simply a time and place where people can meet, and a special place because there they can find the Hebrew scriptures.

They wouldn't find the prophets held in the local temple of Diana, and you go to preach where and when the people can be found. Just like when Paul went to Mars Hill, it didn't mean he had become a Philosopher, he went there to preach to the philosophers. So how do you preach to the Jews? You go to the Jews, Where do you find Jews? You find them in the synagogues on the seventh day. And where do Gentiles hear the gospel from? They hear it first from Jewish apostles and their converts.

You are making assumptions not backed by evidence. The Gentiles were told only to be kept from certain things. No mention of Sabbaths, yet they did find it necessary to mention to keep clean from fornication and things in blood. You're asking me to believe that all the Gentiles were "keeping Sabbaths" already but needed special mention against sexual immorality and blood? Sorry, that doesn't wash. It doesn't match with the real world and it isn't backed by scripture.

9) "Worshiping new ways on new days would be a distinction yes?" No, not especially. Worshiping Christ was a distinction enough; the entire Christian religion was a distinction. Although I think you do not understand what Christ meant in John 4:23, "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him." Days and places don't matter; worship in spirit and truth matters.

10) MAD is confused enough, leave the straw man out of it.

11) You don't seem to understand what the sabbath means, so I'll lay down the relevant scripture here:

Exodus 31:12-17 KJV
(12) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
(13) Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
(14) Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
(15) Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
(16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
(17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

You are not the "children of Israel" and that "perpetual covenant" has been broken. There is a new covenant that has been made and it does not use sabbaths as a sign that we are sanctified by the LORD. Do you know what the sign is that we are given now?

Spoiler
John 13:34-35 KJV
(34) A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
(35) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.


Hint: it's not sabbaths, or special days, or special meats, or blue fringes around our garments.

11) YES, "the New Testament counters prior law." Not so much counters, rather the former laws are null and void, not applicable outside of their covenant. This is basic application of law, all law. Laws only apply in their jurisdiction, and only for the parties that they name.

If you do not understand why Christians say that we should not murder or worship other gods, now is the time to ask. It isn't because of any of the TEN COMMANDMENTS. You should ask, because it doesn't seem you understand this.

12) Are you seriously alleging that "pork" makes the heart and mind unclean against God? Or only if it is roasted? Or willingly eating that which God gave to Noah of "every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you, even as the green herb have I given you all things?"

13) The Gentiles were represented by those items in the dream, but they would not have been represented by those food items if they were abstaining from those "unclean" meats. God instructed Peter that the Gentiles that were represented by those unclean animals were now clean. God did not give instructions to the Gentiles to "become clean" by abstaining from meats or keeping sabbaths.

14) It is only because of your fallacious reasoning that "no difference" isn't sinking in with you. The Jew (of Jewish blood) was not to keep those sabbaths or the old covenants either. The Gentiles weren't being called upon to change their customs to that which was Jewish.

Rather, both Gentiles and Jews were being called to change their customs to that which was in Christ.

15) God says that the Sabbath was made for a sign of the covenant of Israel. Christ's statement that "the sabbath was made for man" is to be understood in that context, and further that it is meant in contrast to "not man made for the sabbath." You seem to not understand this meaning. If man was made for the Sabbath, then the Sabbath is more important than man.

But it's not. The sabbaths are gone. The priests are gone. The temple is gone. The sacrifices are gone. But God kept man.
 
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