Robin Williams commits suicide

[fool]

It's tragic that Robin Williams committed suicide. Suicide is a horrible thing. What a sad, sad, way to go.

However....
I must be the only person on earth that didn't think he was funny.

YES!
My name is fool and I didn't get Robin Williams.
I've said it.
You're not alone.

 

[Caino]

Excellent post!

I think a lot of folks don't fully understand that spiritual illness (sin) and physical illness are often intertwined. And I think this is especially true when we're talking about a malady like addiction.

Just to use myself as an example, I believe I was born with a genetic predisposition to become alcoholic. But to define exactly how that predisposition manifested in me, I would have to describe what I would call 'spiritual shortcomings'; like an intense self-centeredness that caused me to be always very uncomfortable in my own skin. And an intense ego-centrism that caused me to think and expect far too much of myself, leading to a constant sense of hidden and innate failure. And I know these characteristics are common among addicts and alcoholics. And then add to that the fact that certain euphoria producing chemicals have an especially strong effect on some people, like me, and it makes for a very powerful 1-2 punch in favor of the excessive use of those chemicals once we get access to them. And that's the doorway to an addiction.

I was not born a drunk. But I became one because everything about me, and in me, had set me up to do so. The first time I drank alcohol I thought I'd found a magical elixir that was able to finally relieve me of myself! And all I wanted from that moment on was to drink more of it and all the time. It became my primary quest.

I was 12 years old at the time. Not exactly an age of reason, with the power to deny myself such an intensely euphoric experience based on threats of 'sin' or addiction. And by the time I was old enough to appreciate the validity of those threats, it was too late.

Addiction preys on a distorted sense of self, by relieving it temporarily. But in doing so, over time, it distorts it even further. And this process is biological as well as habitual, and psychological. Sin is a spiritual illness. Obsessive self-destructive behavior is a psychological illness. And chemical addiction/abuse is a physical illness.

Alcohol and drug addictions are comprised of all three. Which is why most addict/alcoholics will die in and of their addiction. As did Robin Williams.

Dito's, I identify completely! :first:

 

[eameece]

You needed to have left it right there.

I understand you and many believers would say that. Buddha though is relevant, because he specifically taught people how to deal with cravings. It's the key part of his first lecture.

 

[eameece]

I won't return in kind. I'd sooner you just grew up.

Good one. I suspect we'll have a long wait for that.

 

[eameece]

Excellent post!

I think a lot of folks don't fully understand that spiritual illness (sin) and physical illness are often intertwined. And I think this is especially true when we're talking about a malady like addiction.....

Addiction preys on a distorted sense of self, by relieving it temporarily. But in doing so, over time, it distorts it even further. And this process is biological as well as habitual, and psychological. Sin is a spiritual illness. Obsessive self-destructive behavior is a psychological illness. And chemical addiction/abuse is a physical illness.

Alcohol and drug addictions are comprised of all three. Which is why most addict/alcoholics will die in and of their addiction. As did Robin Williams.

My thoughts too.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Please share just one autopsy report or one blood test that reveals the "illness" of depression. You can't, and you're an idiot to think you can.

Depression is an emotion that is subject to what you think or believe. Thoughts and beliefs are not diseases or illnesses, but morons who worship "science" and not God, have naively drank the koolaid.

I do not agree with people who say the there is no such thing as mental illness. It is well known that alcohol, marijuana, LSD and a wide range of prescriptions effect the brain. It is also known that the levels of our own naturally occurring neural transmitters can greatly affect our moods and thoughts.

On the other side of the same coin is the emotional response to things that happen to us. Children who are bullied can face great emotional turmoil as they grow that is helped by counseling. My youngest was bullied in third grade. I counseled her to help her with the hurt that would bring her home from school in tears. We talked about what bullies want and how to deal with it. The result is that she learned to deal with bullies and got through all the hurt because I talked to her.

Women who are raped, children who are molested, parents who lose children, there are all kinds of situations that result in very real emotional hurt. Since we are human, we respond to life emotionally, those emotional scars can and do affect people. Talking to somebody, a councilor, is a very effective way of coming to grips with our emotions and learning to get past them to move on with life with a healthier outlook.

People who believe that counseling is worthless and serves no purpose do far more harm than good. I may be arguing a semantic point based on how one chooses to define mental illness but I think the point is valid, there "illnesses" that centered in the brain and are caused by chemical imbalances and/or emotional trauma. These illnesses can be effectively managed through a combination of medicine and counseling.

 

[PureX]

Cocaine will do that for ya …

:chuckle: Cocaine doesn't make us clever, it just makes us think we are.

Another troubled soul ... I am beginning to think that most comedians are self medicating in a way.

They do seem to have a darkness about them … many of them, anyway.

 

[PureX]

I do not agree with people who say the there is no such thing as mental illness. It is well known that alcohol, marijuana, LSD and a wide range of prescriptions effect the brain. It is also known that the levels of our own naturally occurring neural transmitters can greatly affect our moods and thoughts.

On the other side of the same coin is the emotional response to things that happen to us. Children who are bullied can face great emotional turmoil as they grow that is helped by counseling. My youngest was bullied in third grade. I counseled her to help her with the hurt that would bring her home from school in tears. We talked about what bullies want and how to deal with it. The result is that she learned to deal with bullies and got through all the hurt because I talked to her.

Women who are raped, children who are molested, parents who lose children, there are all kinds of situations that result in very real emotional hurt. Since we are human, we respond to life emotionally, those emotional scars can and do affect people. Talking to somebody, a councilor, is a very effective way of coming to grips with our emotions and learning to get past them to move on with life with a healthier outlook.

People who believe that counseling is worthless and serves no purpose do far more harm than good. I may be arguing a semantic point based on how one chooses to define mental illness but I think the point is valid, there "illnesses" that centered in the brain and are caused by chemical imbalances and/or emotional trauma. These illnesses can be effectively managed through a combination of medicine and counseling.

Good points, all. And it's also a known fact that our emotional state effects our physical state, just as our physical state effects our emotional state. These are not unconnected realms of experience. In fact, they are each aspects of the other.

 

[S0ZO]

I do not agree with people who say the there is no such thing as mental illness. It is well known that alcohol, marijuana, LSD and a wide range of prescriptions effect the brain. It is also known that the levels of our own naturally occurring neural transmitters can greatly affect our moods and thoughts.

On the other side of the same coin is the emotional response to things that happen to us. Children who are bullied can face great emotional turmoil as they grow that is helped by counseling. My youngest was bullied in third grade. I counseled her to help her with the hurt that would bring her home from school in tears. We talked about what bullies want and how to deal with it. The result is that she learned to deal with bullies and got through all the hurt because I talked to her.

Women who are raped, children who are molested, parents who lose children, there are all kinds of situations that result in very real emotional hurt. Since we are human, we respond to life emotionally, those emotional scars can and do affect people. Talking to somebody, a councilor, is a very effective way of coming to grips with our emotions and learning to get past them to move on with life with a healthier outlook.

People who believe that counseling is worthless and serves no purpose do far more harm than good. I may be arguing a semantic point based on how one chooses to define mental illness but I think the point is valid, there "illnesses" that centered in the brain and are caused by chemical imbalances and/or emotional trauma. These illnesses can be effectively managed through a combination of medicine and counseling.

If counselling works, biology is not the cause. Plain and simple. Thus it is not a disease or illness. If someone wants to redefine those terms (and they have), then fear and stress can be called an illness. In fact, many things can, and are. Eventually, those who bully, and those who are bullied will both be classified as having diseases that need to be medicated. And sadly, people will pop a pill to escape their emotions at the hands of their "doctor", just like drunks do at the hands of their bartender.

 

[CabinetMaker]

If counselling works, biology is not the cause. Plain and simple. Thus it is not a disease or illness. If someone wants to redefine those terms (and they have), then fear and stress can be called an illness. In fact, many things can, and are. Eventually, those who bully, and those who are bullied will both be classified as having diseases that need to be medicated. And sadly, people will pop a pill to escape their emotions at the hands of their "doctor", just like drunks do at the hands of their bartender.

I think PureX addressed your reply rather well.

Good points, all. And it's also a known fact that our emotional state effects our physical state, just as our physical state effects our emotional state. These are not unconnected realms of experience. In fact, they are each aspects of the other.

 

[Arthur Brain]

If counselling works, biology is not the cause. Plain and simple. Thus it is not a disease or illness. If someone wants to redefine those terms (and they have), then fear and stress can be called an illness. In fact, many things can, and are. Eventually, those who bully, and those who are bullied will both be classified as having diseases that need to be medicated. And sadly, people will pop a pill to escape their emotions at the hands of their "doctor", just like drunks do at the hands of their bartender.

Counselling helps some, not all. The same with medication. Depression isn't something that will kill in itself but there's plenty of physical ailments that aren't actually life threatening. Where it comes to conditions like schizophrenia then denying it's an illness is just plain daft. Meds are proven to help. Take that away and don't be surprised if that person completely loses the plot.

 

[Caino]

"Resentment is the 'number one' offender. It destroys more alcoholics than anything else. From it stem all forms of spiritual disease, for we have been not only mentally and physically ill, we have been spiritually sick. When the spiritual malady is overcome, we straighten out mentally and physically. In dealing with resentments, we set them on paper. We listed people, institutions or principles with who we were angry. We asked ourselves why we were angry. In most cases it was found that our self-esteem, our pocketbooks, our ambitions, our personal relationships, (including sex) were hurt or threatened. So we were sore. We were 'burned up.' On our grudge list we set opposite each name our injuries. Was it our self-esteem, our security, our ambitions, our personal, or sex relations, which had been interfered with?" Alcoholics Anonymous pg 65​

 

[S0ZO]

I think PureX addressed your reply rather well.

While I appreciate his willingness to look at this more objectively, I hope that he does not come to any final conclusions based on that statement. There is still the aspect of causation that far too many assume, because they want a quick fix, and far too many are ready and will to have them pay the price for one.

Treating symptoms and getting results is rarely treating the problem, and that is the bottom line.

 

[CabinetMaker]

While I appreciate his willingness to look at this more objectively, I hope that he does not come to any final conclusions based on that statement. There is still the aspect of causation that far too many assume, because they want a quick fix, and far too many are ready and will to have them pay the price for one.

Sad, but true. ADD or ADHD is one such case in point. I have always found it interesting that the diagnosed cases of ADHD went up with the rise video games. It seems that ADHD becomes a problem when kids play with their thumbs instead of their bats and balls. And nobody seems to understand that.

Treating symptoms and getting results is rarely treating the problem, and that is the bottom line.

That is true. In ways that we frequently utterly fail to comprehend. For instance, abortion is just a symptom of a much greater problem.

 

[Doormat]

R. W. is not a member here, but I am, and I have a question which is way deeper than easy suicide. Until I know more there is a possibility I may have liver cancer, and no, I will not take chemo therapy, or radiation.

here is is again:
You have cancer, severe malignant cancer, painful beyond imagination cancer! Now the physician says that the dope will numb the pain, but for relief the dose will shorten your life. Now, what I want to know is, do you take the lower amount of dope, no dope, or the highest amount of dope?

What would you do if your dog was in that position?

 

[Doormat]

That is what I wonder, is it just, call it mental pain, pain is registered in the brain, so, being part of my thinking, why not try to beat that pain mentally?

If disease is going to take me out some day, why not fight it with all of me, not doped out?

Deep abdominal surgeries have been performed without anaesthesia on patients who were hypnotized. Read the book Hypnotherapy by Dave Elman.

 

[Doormat]

What I care about is taking the R. W. thread and generalizing it to what should we think about ending life, other than suicide, not euthanasia, but something new.

Is it right to escape the pain of death?

It seems people mostly think putting down an animal is the humane thing to do.

If you will, I would like to tangent off to that question: modern health; npw if I refuse 'heroic measures' I see to sin in it. God did not say we had to live 'brain dead. or be tube fed.

What about using medication, dope if you will, to kill the brains ability to sense pain?

Why would euthanasia to escape pain be cowardly or immoral or whatever people imagine, but not that? Isn't the alleged "bravery" in enduring the pain?

 

[PureX]

It seems people mostly think putting down an animal is the humane thing to do.

Why would euthanasia to escape pain be cowardly or immoral or whatever people imagine, but not that? Isn't the alleged "bravery" in enduring the pain?

These are questions best left to the individual, because they are only answerable via one's individual beliefs regarding the purpose of life.

I would base my decisions of the objective of keeping my mind conscious and lucid. Once that is lost, from my perspective, I am already dead, and would want my body "put down".

But that's just me. What I value most about my own life is my being aware of my living it. Once that's gone, I'm no longer existent.

 

[meshak]

No matter what state of mind a person is in, killing yourself is not the solution to anything. We aren't supposed to commit suicide Meshak. This is about >your< approval more than Jesus'

You can think like this when you are not severely depressed.

Some people are not fortunate enough to know what is going on inside themselves.

I did not know I was mental illness until I was early 50ish. I guess I was lucky that I was informed about what is wrong with me.

It is so complicated things. We should not judge people who are depressed enough to kill themselves.

 

[Caino]

You can think like this when you are not severely depressed.

Some people are not fortunate enough to know what is going on inside themselves.

I did not know I was mental illness until I was early 50ish. I guess I was lucky that I was informed about what is wrong with me.

It is so complicated things. We should not judge people who are depressed enough to kill themselves.

Understood, but I also think killing yourself is a bad thing and it should not be excused or glorified or discussed as an option.

I'm glad people were honest with me without feeling they were "judging" me.