Robert's Gospel According to the Apostle Paul

[clefty]

One more for you:

Isaiah 65:17-20 KJV
(17) For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
(18) But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
(19) And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
(20) There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Now compare these continuing prophesies of the new heavens and the new earth:

2 Peter 3:12-13 KJV
(12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
(13) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-4 KJV
(1) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
(2) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
(3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Children still die without seeing a hundred years, the new heavens and the new earth has not been created, and is still prophesied by Peter and John. Both Isaiah and Revelation say this new heavens and new earth will have no more weeping or crying, these are the same prophecy.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/25/us/guatemalan-boy-dies-in-us-custody/index.html

There's the proof and evidence: the prophecy of Isaiah is not yet fulfilled. Children still die. It was on CNN.

Yes...and oh wait maybe the Sabbath was NOT abolished...

Isaiah 66:22-23 “For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me” says the Lord...”and from one Sabbath to another ALL flesh shall come to worship Me...”

 

[clefty]

Yes

But you said:

“Why is it so hard for you guys to understand that the same type of metaphoric language was used to describe what happened to Jerusalem in 70AD?” Post #1624

If it happened literally why isnt any language used even any METAPHORIC language used to describe what happened literally in 70 AD...

Most scholars having placed the revelations in 90 ad wonder why John’s visions wouldn’t include the temples destruction...I mean Paul said there would be resurrections of all the dead in Jesus and all that...and they would put on immortality...

They still alive?

Are any of them as they all were changed in the twinkling of an eye...at that 70 ad event...

 

[Rosenritter]

Peter and John's prophecies were written before 70AD.

There is no more weeping or crying in the kingdom. The kingdom is not on planet earth.

LOL...The Fake News Network

So this "not on planet earth" kingdom without weeping and crying, it also has children that die a hundred years old? And houses, and vineyards, and fruit that they eat?

Isaiah 65:17-21 KJV
(17) For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
(18) But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
(19) And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
(20) There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
(21) And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

And you are seriously going to call CNN a "fake news network" to refute that a child died?

If there is something fake here, it's not the news of a child dying. It's the story that "all prophecy in the Old Testament has already been fulfilled." Children still die, there is no non-earthly kingdom where people are building houses and eating fruit that they plant and the children are dying a hundred years old.

Again, seriously, what are you really hanging on to here that is more important than acknowledging that not all prophecy has been fulfilled?

 

[Rosenritter]

Happened in 70AD

And somehow the entire world failed to notice.

 

[Rosenritter]

(1 Thess 4:17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When a believer dies today, they are instantly "caught up" in the clouds to meet all the previous believers.

Can you show us where that is written?

 

[Rosenritter]

You need to not take it literally.

(Isaiah 19:1)The burden of Egypt. Behold, the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.

In the above, God didn't literally ride a swift cloud into Egypt. The metaphoric language describes the Assyrian army invading Egypt.

Now jump to the first century, the same metaphoric language describes the Roman army invading Jerusalem.

However, if you're interested in historians recording Jesus returning in the clouds:

Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the one- and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence" ( Josephus, Jewish Wars, VI-V-3).

"Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world." ( Tacitus, Histories, Book 5, v. 13).

Revelation 1:7 KJV
(7) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

So "every eye shall see him" means "NO eye shall see him" and "all kindreds of the earth shall wait because of him" means "NO kindreds of the earth shall wail or even know he exists?"

 

[Rosenritter]

What do you mean by a third coming?

What we call the Second Coming is really a Third Coming under Rapture Theology, because in Rapture Theology Jesus makes a secret return to rapture the saints for seven years before he has to come again for the real deal.

 

[clefty]

(1 Thess 4:17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When a believer dies today, they are instantly "caught up" in the clouds to meet all the previous believers.

THAT text describes what happens to those which are ALIVE and remain

They are being caught up with the ones just previously resurrected from the dead their sleep in Yahushua...this being END TIMES not 70 AD as there was no resurrection then...Paul was hoping yes but hey...we all want a SOON second coming...in like manner as He went up...coming down on the clouds

 

[clefty]

So this "not on planet earth" kingdom without weeping and crying, it also has children that die a hundred years old? And houses, and vineyards, and fruit that they eat?

Isaiah 65:17-21 KJV
(17) For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
(18) But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
(19) And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
(20) There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
(21) And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

And you are seriously going to call CNN a "fake news network" to refute that a child died?

If there is something fake here, it's not the news of a child dying. It's the story that "all prophecy in the Old Testament has already been fulfilled." Children still die, there is no non-earthly kingdom where people are building houses and eating fruit that they plant and the children are dying a hundred years old.

Again, seriously, what are you really hanging on to here that is more important than acknowledging that not all prophecy has been fulfilled?

There’s no telling what lengths a person will go to deny what’s in the word...adding to or removing what is there...

 

[clefty]

What we call the Second Coming is really a Third Coming under Rapture Theology, because in Rapture Theology Jesus makes a secret return to rapture the saints for seven years before he has to come again for the real deal.

LOL...well technically He went up on first fruits after the day of His resurrection that first day of the week when the tomb was found already emptied...

To confirm with the Father His first fruits sacrifice was approved...so in a sense His second coming will be a third...oh and He came back to appear to Saul...and John...

 

[clefty]

Revelation 1:7 KJV
(7) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

So "every eye shall see him" means "NO eye shall see him" and "all kindreds of the earth shall wait because of him" means "NO kindreds of the earth shall wail or even know he exists?"

Well he already thinks “Think NOT that I have come to abolish the law” means to think He DID...

 

[clefty]

When the Lord Jesus ascended into heaven He was set down at the right hand of the heavenly throne of God:

"Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens" (Heb.8:1).​

However, the Apostle John witnessed a scene set in the heavenly sphere and in the following passage he speaks of a throne which he saw there:

"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven...And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne" (Rev.4:1-2).​

The one who sits upon the throne is Almighty God (v. 8) and John saw that that He had a book in his right hand:

"And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals" (Rev.5:1).

Then John saw the Lord Jesus take the book out of the right hand of God:

"And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne" (Rev.5:6-7).​

First notice that John saw the Lord Jesus "standing" and therefore at that time He was not sitting on any throne. Besides that, when John saw the Lord Jesus and God together he only saw one throne and it is God who is sitting upon that throne and not the Lord Jesus. And John speaks of both of them in the following verse and he speaks of only God being upon a throne:

"Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever" (Rev.5:13).​

If the Davidic throne is in heaven now then why didn't John see it? John had a clear, unobstructed view of the heavenly scene, being able to see the throne of God and also able to see seven lamps of fire burning before God's throne (4:5). But he did not see any throne on the right hand of God's throne. He also saw four beasts at God's throne (Rev.4:6) and he counted twenty four elders around that throne (Rev.4:10) but he did not see a throne at the right hand of that throne.

John didn't see the throne of David and besides that, the Lord Jesus was seen standing and not seated on any throne. But you say that He has been sitting at His throne since 70 AD. Also, at Acts 7:57 Stephen saw Him "standing" at the right hand of God so you are wrong when you say that He has been sitting on His throne since 70AD.

Poor Stephen...Even slandering jews claimed he taught things he did NOT actually teach...like that Yahushua of Nazareth will destroy the temple and change the customs which Moses delivered...

Luke was clear that was FALSE WITNESS...in other words Stephen did NOT teach the temple would be destroyed or the customs of Moses would be changed...by Jesus...

Luke lied? About that witness about Stephen’s teaching...?

We all know eventually the temple was destroyed...by ROME

Oh and the customs of Moses were also changed...BY ROME...ha

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Luke was clear that was FALSE WITNESS...in other words Stephen did NOT teach the temple would be destroyed or the customs of Moses would be changed...by Jesus...

I never said that Stephen taught that.

Did someone else?

 

[Danoh]

One of the leading Preterists today is Gary deMar and look what he says about...

And your approach within your supposed Mid-Acts "wisdom" is exactly his erroneous one, within his particular school, within Preterism.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ITyptJ9aAXs

The guy is off from his very first assertion that Dispys go in set to cherry pick a thing.

And he continues off in why the Apostles did not ask the Lord, this, that other, and so on...

The Apostles already knew what He'd been referring to in Matthew 16 - those of "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" Matt. 10:6, who believed the Apostles' preaching to them that the kingdom of heaven was at hand, THEIR long prophesied Messiah was in THEIR midst, so repent (turn back to the God of THEIR fathers) and submit to John's water baptism ritual for the remission of sins, or face His pending wrath, John chapter 1, Matthew chapter 3...

Luke 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Demar is clearly a parrot of the exact same kind of off-base reasoning that those parrots prior to him parrot in writings prior to his, that their school's endless books "about" wean such parrots in...

Note:

One of the reasons I like videos so much is because they allow me to pick a speaker's mind - through his or her eye movements, and other body language relative to his or her stated assertions - all of which reveal one's mind, as to where he or she has/is looking at things from and or studying them from, to begin with, that has resulted in his or her conclusions, sound, or not.

I find that I learn a lot about their particular approach's unconscious principles, and about my own, and about how each speaker ends up sound or not, on one thing or another, and basically, about approaches in general...which ones might do well to adopt, which ones might do well to be careful not to end up at oneself, and so on.

And I find that Gary's approach is clearly as full of the same kinds of holes in approach, as yours has always shown, Jerry, whenever you go into how right you supposedly are about one thing or another within Mid-Acts that even MADs who normally might not agree with one thing or another on, both find themselves in disagreement with your supposed "findings."

Of course, you can't see any of this.

It is, what it is.

Parrot Tetelestai also wants a cracker.

:chuckle:

Nevertheless, Romans 5:6-11.

 

[clefty]

I never said that Stephen taught that.

Did someone else?

Didn’t say you did...but you did mention Stephen and what he DID see/teach...and that it was ignored...that He was seen by Stephen standing at the right hand of Yah...

So I thought I would add to that other things most of Christendom has ignored...namely that he did NOT teach the law was changed or destroyed by Yahushua...that was jewish false witness which is now the majority view...

So Stephen’s teaching that the law was NOT changed is ignored...

And recently some got so MAD about the gospel and its law establishing in all nations that these MAD even claim it wasnt for them...as if it was NOT for WHOSOEVER believed just like the OT was ONE law for believers...for genetic israel AND for goyim within their gates...

These MAD just like the false witnessing jews WANT Stephen to have taught the Law WAS changed by Yahushua and in application even...as if it did NOT now apply to goyim or never did...or something...

They would rather give up baptism by water, the Lord’s Prayer, the Lord’s supper, the doing His Father’s will than WANT to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy...yup...as if Stephen taught the gospel and the Law it established did NOT apply to them...

Despite Peter’s clear teaching that Yah received goyim by FAITH and made NO DISTINCTION between them from believing jews...obvious distinctions would be made if they did NOT DO like believing jews...after having heard Moses preached to them every Sabbath...

Yup just like the OT...ONE LAW remained one new creature from jew and goyim was made...one faithful citizenry of Israel...HIS PEOPLE..for which a rest remains Heb 4:9 WHAT GRACE as much works is left to do...

Poor Stephen so slandered by the false witnesses of jews that it is believed now...as if he taught whosoever believes are NOT to establish the Law...

 

[tetelestai]

Yes...and oh wait maybe the Sabbath was NOT abolished...

Fulfilled in Christ Jesus

Christ Jesus is my rest.

 

[tetelestai]

So this "not on planet earth" kingdom without weeping and crying, it also has children that die a hundred years old? And houses, and vineyards, and fruit that they eat?

There is no way of describing a spiritual kingdom with earthly words.

It would be like describing a spiritual body with earthly words. You can't do it.

If there is something fake here, it's not the news of a child dying. It's the story that "all prophecy in the Old Testament has already been fulfilled."

It has.

All prophecy in the OT has been fulfilled by Christ Jesus.

Children still die

Not in the kingdom. On planet earth, yes, but not in the kingdom. The kingdom is not on planet earth.

there is no non-earthly kingdom where people are building houses and eating fruit that they plant and the children are dying a hundred years old.

There is non-earthly kingdom that is spiritual. I doubt there are any houses, or people eating fruit, since houses and fruit aren't spiritual things.

Nor do I believe there will be children in the kingdom:

(Matt 12:25) When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Every angel mentioned in the Bible has a male name. There is not one angel in the Bible with a female name. Also, there is the Father and the Son, no mention of a mother or daughter.

Again, seriously, what are you really hanging on to here that is more important than acknowledging that not all prophecy has been fulfilled?

I believe what Jesus said. He said He came to fulfill the law and prophets, and that's what He did.

 

[meshak]

what happened to Robert?

 

[tetelestai]

And somehow the entire world failed to notice.

(Luke 2:1 KJV) And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

At the time, did the Mayan's living in what is now Central Mexico pay taxes to Caesar Augustus when he sent out his decree that "All THE WORLD" should be taxed?

If no, why not? It clearly says "ALL THE WORLD"?????

 

[clefty]

Fulfilled in Christ Jesus

Christ Jesus is my rest.

Layabout faith without works needs no rest...