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That is NOT what the Bible says RP. You are a scripture perverted.
:rotfl:
Robert's Gospel According to the Apostle Paul
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
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It's not hard to understand if you believe the Bible. God inspired Luke and it matters not how Luke got the information.
Again you try to TWIST my words. Nobody but God "told" Luke what to write.
Off on another tangent, since you cannot properly defend your original argument. So typical.
In every way.
The scripture says... "Abraham believed God" Romans 4:3.
Now what was it that God said to Abraham that caused him to be justified by faith? The Idolater knows, see his post #138.
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No kidding.... read the BIBLE and see what he was told and what he believed.
Rom 4:3 KJV For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Go to the SCRIPTURE that Paul is quoting.
Gen 15:1-6 KJV After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. (2) And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? (3) And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. (4) And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. (5) And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. (6) And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
THAT is what Abraham believed and what was counted to him as righteousness.
:juggle:
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
I believe the Bible, and you've already agreed that it can't hurt to think about it. And I disagree that 'it matters not.' I think it does matter.
How? Paul received by revelation his Gospel. Are you saying that Luke was the same? And if not, then how?
It was proof, that you don't regard proof.
Give me One example.
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Luke never claimed to have received a gospel. Luke wrote a book that tradition has called "a gospel".
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Right, and he got that 'intel' somehow. And somehow, what he wrote became Scripture. And I believe that that 'somehow' was that the Spirit of truth came specially upon the Apostles, and they were together the living source of the truth for a little while, while they lived on the earth. Whatever they taught (cf. Jn13:20KJV 1Jn4:6KJV), whether by written or spoken word (cf. 2Th2:15KJV), and whatever they approved (e.g. the Gospels according to Mark and Luke), is the Word of God.
When caught out in your own deceit you always change the subject.
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This is a PERFECT example of your religious zealotry.
And yes, I know about that ONE VERSE that you "Catholics" use to justify ANYTHING that your perverse "church" wants to ADD to scripture.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
No. Not even close. And if my theological justification is 'zealotry,' then so is yours.
The Word of God is transmitted to us by the Apostles, both 'by word, or our epistle,' just as the Scripture says. 2nd Thessalonians 2:15 KJV We listen to and hear the Apostles because He sent them to and for us (Lk10:16KJV Jn13:20KJV 1Jn4:6KJV).
All that believed in God's promise of a savior were justified by faith alone. Faith and faith alone is the justifier, Romans 3:26.
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K:If you really believed the Word of God, then you would understand how to rightly divide the word of truth... but you don't.
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Your confusion about Romans 4:3 is duly noted.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
I really believe the Word of God, and I'm not a Dispenationalist. You're begging the question.
If you really believed the Word of God, then you would understand how to rightly divide the word of truth... but you don't.
Problem is, that is not what Romans 4 asserts about what Abraham had believed. Not in Romans 4.
Would that the evidence against your assertion ends with the following.
Genesis 15:2 And Abram said, LORD God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? 15:3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 15:4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
But the evidence does not end there. You are simply wrong on this one.
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
When was that?
Romans 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Abraham was still in uncircumcision when his above belief of what God had told him was counted to him for righteousness.
And Isaac was not even conceived, let alone a child Abraham would later have obeyingly sacrificed, but for God's intervention, Gen. 22.
Again, Romans points back to Genesis 15...
Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Again, what had been that which had been spoken unto him, then?
Genesis 15:3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 15:4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Romans 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb: 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
"The mouth of" these "two or three witnesses" is what you are going against.
2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
This also being my third attempt, I'll leave you at these witnesses against you.
Romans 5:6-8, in each - our stead.
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Nope.
Translation: Anyone that disagrees with "Pate-ianity" is a Calvinist, or not saved, not having the spirit of Christ, that obviously Closet Calvinist/Catholic Pate has more of, than anyone on this board.
Yup...except you claim there is no more law...without law there is no standard for justification and no need of Grace
Happily you claim something different than scripture which is clear...
“Here are they” that do what Bob?
“and have the faith OF...” again Bob please answer...
What was His faith? How did it have Him live? Lawless?
Correct, as Pate satanically deletes from the book:
Psalms 111 KJV
7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.
8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.
Matthew 5:17 KJV Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Psalm 119:151-152 KJV, Psalms 119:159-160 KJV
151 Thou art near, O Lord; and all thy commandments are truth.152 Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever......
159 Consider how I love thy precepts: quicken me, O LORD, according to thy lovingkindness. 160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever
He, on record, asserts that The Old covenant no longer exits, i.e., out with Genesis-Malachi, and Matthew-John, prior to the dbr.