Robert's Gospel According to the Apostle Paul

[clefty]

Paul was a minister of the New Covenant:

(2 Cor 3:6) He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

If you want to learn about the New Covenant, read Paul's epistles.

Jesus was born under the law of Moses, and lived under the law of Moses. The law of Moses is not part of the New Covenant.

Again, the covenant changed, the priesthood changed, and the law changed.

Paul says we establish Law...can you specify?

The Spirit leads us into what? Keeping which of these?

Why “Here are they that keep the commandments and the faith of”?

Which ones? What does that faith consist of? Look like? He eats swine in heaven now does He? We will too?

 

[clefty]

How is quoting scripture "false witness"?

Does the scripture not say the law was given until the seed that was promised had come?

Sure but that’s like saying the addition laws are in place until the schoolmaster comes...

Does the schoolmaster change those laws or are they still in place?

You witness here that under the tutor it is one thing but then after we graduate it’s another...or not at all

 

[john w]

Yes.

(Rom 3:23 KJV) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Without a Levite Priest, how do I know which ones I have committed?

How is that possible? No law, no transgression.....1 John 3:4 KJV

How do you know what sin is, without the law, as Paul points out? How did Paul know that he coveted, without the law of God?

Rhetorical q.

You made up this assertion, that the good, holy, spiritual law of God no longer exists.

 

[tetelestai]

Thus, the law governing the priesthood as found in the Mosaic "economy" was destroyed, abolished, in favor of another, the Lord Jesus Christ's, which would provide for an order of priesthood that would function successfully in the very thing in which the Aaronic priesthood failed.

The Levitical Priesthood and the Law of Moses are inseparable. You can't change the priesthood, and keep the same law.

(Heb 7:12 KJV) For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

It's impossible to incorporate the Law of Moses into a different priesthood.

 

[john w]

John, the writer of Hebrews tells us the law changed:

(Heb 7:12 KJV) For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

You keep saying that the Law of Moses tells us what is a sin, and what isn't. Please tell us what law changed?

Already did.


You: You cannot say there is a law of God, but, at the same time, say some are exempt from it. Vs.
Christian:There is an existing forever law of God, that defines what sin/transgression is, and we are all guilty of breaking it, but those that are "exempt"(your words) from the penalty, debt, fine, for breaking, by definition, that same EXISTING law of God, are those that trust in the dbr, as the Lord Jesus Christ took our judgment, our condemnation,upon Himself, in our place, as He paid the fine/sin debt,so that justice is served.

Quite a Saviour.

And that is the good news.


You deny that Paul says that the holy, good, spiritual law of law still exists, is not made void, serves its intended purpose, that is, to let the lost know what sin is, such as coveting,....and to serve as a teacher, to lead them to Christ

You deny that Christ died for your/our sins; You assert that he died to destroy the law.

We know.


We know.

 

[clefty]

How is quoting scripture "false witness"?

Does the scripture not say the law was given until the seed that was promised had come?

You forgot to use He is the end of the Law...as if the Greek telos ONLY meant end and not GOAL

And that “end” as in abolish termination and not like ENDZONE score touchdown right? LOL

 

[john w]

The law and prophets were fulfilled by Christ Jesus.



No, but I'm a little hung over from last night.

"Fulfilled" does not mean destroyed, made void. You are lying. What is your motivation for lying?And, yes, you are drunk.

You argued:

Jesus tells how we know what is right and wrong:

(Matt 7:12 KJV) Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

...thus citing the holy law of God.

But you assert that that the law and the prophets was made void, destroyed at the cross.

Additionally, tell us how you can be charged with any sin, today, since the law that defines transgressions/sins, and the resulting sin debt, IOU, no longer exists,being destroyed approximately 2000 years before you were born, and thus how can Christ die for a sin debt, that does not exist, and thus which cannot be charged to you.


You, on record, like Pate, assert that Christ did not die for our/your sins, paying our penalty/sin debt, in our stead-he died to destroy the law, so that there is no sin debt possible, for which He might die.


We know.

 

[clefty]

I'm not under the Law of Moses. I don't have to keep Sabbath, I don't have to let my land rest every 7 years, or forgive people who owe me money every 7 years. I don't have to observe Jubilee every 50 years.

I don't have to make a pilgrimage to Jerusalem 3 times a year. I could go on, and on about all the things I don't have to do under the Law, because I'm not under the law.

right I simplified it for you...which of the 10 do you not wish to follow that He asked you to?

Sabbath is one of the 10 and not just ceremonial Levitical Moses' or for da jews only...

So again which of the 10 do you NOT wish to do since He died for you and established the new covenant doing so...and Paul affirms we are to establish law...WHICH LAWS

Which of the 10 do you not wish to copy Paul as he instructed as he copied Christ...

Why do you not pray that the Sabbath is kept in future times of trouble as He instructed you to pray for...

Why do you make Isaiah a liar for writing that in the future from Sabbath to Sabbath all will worship Him...

seriously...it was a gift...made for MAN...not just jews…

established at creation given for man as everything else created was...

even woman...woman was made for man too...some sinners reject both gifts...LOL

do you?

is ok...apparently gays are ok'd by the church to continue being gay...

in fact gays claim as you do that anti gay laws were abolished...LOL

oh boy...what a mess

all to avoid a day off...a holiday...His Sabbaths...and yet we celebrate treasons to His seasons...as if the year started in the dark of winter...LOL

holidaze vs His festival...

Peter said we should follow Yah...not man's traditions...especially jewish lies that the cross changed the laws...

 

[tetelestai]

How is that possible? No law, no transgression.....1 John 3:4 KJV

How do you know what sin is, without the law, as Paul points out? How did Paul know that he coveted, without the law of God?

Rhetorical q.

You made up this assertion, that the good, holy, spiritual law of God no longer exists.

There is a new law.

 

[clefty]

The whole law changed, not just parts of it.



The whole law changed.

We now have the law of the spirit filled life in Christ Jesus.

OK OK...here will make it even easier...please specify which laws the Spirit would be contrary to? So that in Christ Jesus you don't have to do as He did...

 

[clefty]

There is a new law.

please list it thanks...

and if it is love one another...how are we to love...like the world? the Buddhists? muslims?

or AS HE LOVED US...



so please continue with the list of that NEW LAW

thank you...

 

[john w]

The writer of Hebrews agrees with me:

(Heb 7:18) For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,

The law was annulled, meaning it is no longer valid.

There is a new law because their is a new priesthood. There is also a new covenant.

Are you still drunk? According to you, the law has been destroyed, so you have no objective law, that defines the above, "whatsoever....," and the Saviour's' "whatsoever" would always confirm "It is written" in His own law, not going beyond its parameters, not violating His own objective law, as contained within the OT.

You lied. Psalms 111 ff, says that you are lying. Paul says that you are lying,as he afirms, "post cross," that the law is not void, still serves a purpose, despite your butchered "interpretation" of the above.


Thus, you assert that Christ did not die for our sins, sin debt, IOU, as there is no objective law, defining sin, as sin is the transgression of the law; you assert that He died to destroy, make void the law, so that He would not need to take our judgment, fine, sin debt, and pay for it Himself-there is no law, creating a sin debt, according to you.


We know. You are lying. Why are you lying? What is your motivation?

 

[tetelestai]

Why do you not pray that the Sabbath is kept in future times of trouble as He instructed you to pray for...

(Col 2:16) Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

 

[john w]

There is a new law.

Non responsive, Evasion. You lied. "Post cross," the good, spiritual,holy law of God, which Paul asserts was not made void, showed him, the Galatians, the lost what sin is, serving as a teacher, to lead them/the lost, to Christ. Paul constantly referred to the law of God-yet, you assert that he referred to the holy Law of God, right out of the OT, although it no longer existed, at the time of Paul.

So, you are either still drunk, or lying.

Non responsive, Evasion.

How is that possible? No law, no transgression.....1 John 3:4 KJV

How do you know what sin is, without the law, as Paul points out? How did Paul know that he coveted, without the law of God? Rhetorical q.

You made up this assertion, that the good, holy, spiritual law of God no longer exists.


What is your motivation, for lying?

 

[clefty]

There is a new law.

OH and when do we learn of it? The old was abolished at the cross yes? oh yes yes +40 years...

but if it is GONE before we are born why do we need to be Reborn at all?

How do we know we are in need of salvation if that which points out our sin is gone...or doesn't apply to us...?

So thanks...

Please list that new law...

and when we realize we need it...


"hmmm two ways to heaven to classes of citizens...thought He taught a house divided could not stand"...clefty mumbles walking away...lol

 

[tetelestai]

or AS HE LOVED US...

No, as you love yourself.

If you love the Lord with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength, and love your neighbor as you love yourself, you will be obeying the law of Christ.

 

[Right Divider]

(Lev 19:28 KJV) Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord.

Under the law, getting a tattoo was a sin.

If a Christian gets a tattoo today, is it a sin?

If a non-Christian gets a tattoo is it a sin?

It all depends on who the YE/YOUR/YOU are, doesn't it?

Here is the part of Lev 19 that explains it for you.

Lev 19:1-2 KJV​

(1) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,​

(2) Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy.​

 

[clefty]

(Col 2:16) Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

yes let no one but the body of Christ judge you your keeping of it...why would jews even bother judging if gentile believers were NOT keeping it LOL

 

[john w]

Correct


Correct



Correct



Correct



John W denies that the New Covenant is in place right now. So, that leads to many problems for him, and explains his lack of understanding the law being fulfilled.

You, like Pate, assert that the "solution" to the sin problem, is not that the Saviour died to pay the penalty, "fine," sin debt, "died for our sins according to scripture," taking the corresponding judgment/condemnation in our stead, resulting from us breaking, by definition,His EXISTING good, spiritual, holy law; Nea, your "argument" is that the solution is to make void that same good, holy, spiritual law of His, so that there is no resulting transgression/sin/offense, since "sin is the transgression of the law," and thus there is no resulting sin debt, no resulting judgment/condemnation to be charged to us, and thus no sin debt, for which He might die. Thus, your argument, solution, makes His death unnecessary, in vain. The LORD God could have just made void, destroyed His own law, with the snap of His fingers, without having to send His Christ. But that would not be justice, and He is a LORD God of justice, not lawlessness. And no scripture expounds that Him destroying His own law, affects us being saved, much less "how." In contrast, "woven" through the book, in detail, the doctrines of propitiation, reconciliation, atonement, substitution, identification,.....are expounded, all based upon the premise, that we have "come short," and are guilty, as charged, of breaking again, by definition, His good, holy, spiritual law, and that "problem" is with us, not the law, and the sin debt, the "IOU," the "bond indenture," we incur, is contrary to us, and the deserved condemnation/judgment. Thus, the "good news," as pertaining to our dilemma, our salvation, the gospel of Christ......He died for our sins, paying the resulting sin debt, IOU, we deserve, in our place, for breaking His always existing holy, good, spiritual law.

Pate and you deny that Christ died for our sins.


We know.

You: Fulfilled means made void, no longer exists.


You are lying? Why?

 

[Right Divider]

It wasn't "made void". It was fulfilled by Christ Jesus

More nonsense.