Revelation 11:2. Forty-Two Months.

[Aimiel]

No, but I've spent way more time in Revelation than any other book of The Holy Bible. It's a very interesting study. I've read books by several famous and several not-so-famous authors and don't completely agree with any of them. I have come to believe that the 'two candlesticks' are Messianic Jews and Christians. That much is quite clear. There are many who believe that they're individual prophets, such as Moses and Elijah or some such derivative of that theory. I like the fact that God doesn't reveal His 'Mystery' until very close to the end... it happens when the voice of the seventh angel begins to sound. I believe that in that day: men will merely think about God and know everything they need to know about Him, but there will be many who STILL will not repent, because they love their sin more than the opportunity to have eternal life.

 

[Jacob]

No, but I've spent way more time in Revelation than any other book of The Holy Bible. It's a very interesting study. I've read books by several famous and several not-so-famous authors and don't completely agree with any of them. I have come to believe that the 'two candlesticks' are Messianic Jews and Christians. That much is quite clear. There are many who believe that they're individual prophets, such as Moses and Elijah or some such derivative of that theory. I like the fact that God doesn't reveal His 'Mystery' until very close to the end... it happens when the voice of the seventh angel begins to sound. I believe that in that day: men will merely think about God and know everything they need to know about Him, but there will be many who STILL will not repent, because they love their sin more than the opportunity to have eternal life.

I believe that you are wrong about the two-candlesticks. Many believe that there are Jews (Messianic Jews) who are believers and Christians (Gentiles) who are believers, but that is not accurate to the term Christian which is of Jew and Gentile or Greek.

 

[Aimiel]

I believe that you are wrong about the two-candlesticks. Many believe that there are Jews (Messianic Jews) who are believers and Christians (Gentiles) who are believers, but that is not accurate to the term Christian which is of Jew and Gentile or Greek.

There is no more Jew or Gentile, male or female, Greek or Australian; there is One Body: Christ. We are either believers or un-believers. We are One. Each of us believe in God. God doesn't look upon anyone with 'special' favor because of their denomination, religion, skin color, nationality or gender. We are all His Children. The favor He has for us was purchased by the same Blood: Jesus'. It has blotted our our sins. We are perfect in His Eyes. There are degrees of reward just as there are degrees of punishment, but that is due to the works one does in this life. If we become close to The Lord in our flesh: we will be close to Him in Heaven. If one commits heinous sin: one will be punished more than others.

 

[Jacob]

There is no more Jew or Gentile, male or female, Greek or Australian; there is One Body: Christ. We are either believers or un-believers. We are One. Each of us believe in God. God doesn't look upon anyone with 'special' favor because of their denomination, religion, skin color, nationality or gender. We are all His Children. The favor He has for us was purchased by the same Blood: Jesus'. It has blotted our our sins. We are perfect in His Eyes. There are degrees of reward just as there are degrees of punishment, but that is due to the works one does in this life. If we become close to The Lord in our flesh: we will be close to Him in Heaven. If one commits heinous sin: one will be punished more than others.

Would you say that this is true of a believer or that believers do not sin, or did you intend it to be read as an unbeliever or anyone believer or unbeliever?

 

[Aimiel]

Only believers. Those who are un-believers don't have forgiveness of sins (yet). Believers still sin. There's only One Who lived a perfect life. We are sinless in God's Eyes. Our sins are blotted out. Gone.

 

[Jacob]

Only believers. Those who are un-believers don't have forgiveness of sins (yet). Believers still sin. There's only One Who lived a perfect life. We are sinless in God's Eyes. Our sins are blotted out. Gone.

I think you are saying some sin is blotted out and some isn't, maybe sin that hasn't been committed yet.

 

[Aimiel]

I think you are saying some sin is blotted out and some isn't, maybe sin that hasn't been committed yet.

All of a believer's sins are blotted out. Those who don't avail themselves of the forgiveness that's available in Christ's Blood don't have that luxury. If we sin, willingly, after becoming believers, though, we crucify to ourselves The Son of God, all over again. That's worse than the sin that we were thinking of committing, itself. We need to take our salvation seriously.

 

[Jacob]

All of a believer's sins are blotted out. Those who don't avail themselves of the forgiveness that's available in Christ's Blood don't have that luxury. If we sin, willingly, after becoming believers, though, we crucify to ourselves The Son of God, all over again. That's worse than the sin that we were thinking of committing, itself. We need to take our salvation seriously.

Maybe there is something we do, but salvation is a saving work of God.

 

[Aimiel]

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[Jacob]

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I like your post here. Do you think that grace and law issues are included, or sin issues? It sounds difficult to be impossible to renew to repentance, but hopefully as many people can be helped as possible. We need to repent, can we after we are already saved? A seared conscience might be different from a depraved mind.

 

[Aimiel]

Scripture says it is impossible to renew someone to repentance if they fit the category described. I believe that someone in that condition would never once even think about God, having chosen their own fate.

 

[Jacob]

Scripture says it is impossible to renew someone to repentance if they fit the category described. I believe that someone in that condition would never once even think about God, having chosen their own fate.

I think about God. But I have at times wondered if I am beyond repentance, even while thinking myself right with God or something. It comes down to obeying God and obeying the Law and then wondering what else I need to do but realizing it is a grace and Law issue when obeying God is what I want to do.

 

[Aimiel]

I think about God. But I have at times wondered if I am beyond repentance, even while thinking myself right with God or something. It comes down to obeying God and obeying the Law and then wondering what else I need to do but realizing it is a grace and Law issue when obeying God is what I want to do.

If you were beyond repentance you would never even think about God in the least. You'd seek and serve your god: yourself. When God takes His Hands off someone's life due to them having gone beyond His Salvation they aren't long for this world. No one realizes just how much His Hand of Protection keeps them alive every single day.

 

[Jacob]

If you were beyond repentance you would never even think about God in the least. You'd seek and serve your god: yourself. When God takes His Hands off someone's life due to them having gone beyond His Salvation they aren't long for this world. No one realizes just how much His Hand of Protection keeps them alive every single day.

Amen.

Aren't long for this world? What does that mean?

 

[Aimiel]

'Bout to buy the farm. Headed for a dirt nap. Sleepin' with da' fishes. Not wakin' up. Gettin' a toe tag. Goin' belly-up. You'll be history. Late, as in the late: Dent, Arthur Dent. Going to die.

 

[nikolai_42]

Good question. He said, "Shortly," but He has a different viewpoint of time than the rest of us.

This is a point that has me wonder how futurists can be so dogmatic about time. Revelation says the same thing at its beginning and its end :

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John
Revelation 1:1

And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Revelation 22:6

So if we grant the contention that God has a different relationship to time than we do, how can one be dogmatic about the times listed in the book being just as we naturally understand them? The critical prophecy in Daniel 9 is clearly using a day to represent a year. And since Revelation expands on things found in Daniel (the beasts, for example), is it possible that this is a more accurate timescale to use? What is the point of being so precise (for example) in Revelation 9:15

And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men
Revelation 9:15

That degree of precision is possible, but when talking about years, what does the single hour do if it isn't necessarily clear what precise minute the judgment begins?

You have said that both Daniel and Revelation are books of mysteries that aren't necessarily meant to be understood yet. I disagree. The books themselves appear to say so :

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
...
And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel 12:4,8-9

But in Revelation :

And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Revelation 22:10

And since it has already been said that it is for the servants of God to know what is coming, one would think at least some of it would be relevant to those servants in John's day. Obviously, it need not be completely fulfilled in that few years, but Daniel was sealed for 600-700 years. How could Revelation be considered unsealed (and intended to give understanding to believers in that day and forward) if the last 1900 years have gone on in effective prophetic silence?

 

[Vail Lifted]

Does anyone know what the forty-two months are here in Revelation 11:2?

Revelation 11:2 NASB
“Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.​

The 42 months are 3.5 years.

 

[Jacob]

'Bout to buy the farm. Headed for a dirt nap. Sleepin' with da' fishes. Not wakin' up. Gettin' a toe tag. Goin' belly-up. You'll be history. Late, as in the late: Dent, Arthur Dent. Going to die.

Well, isn't everyone that is not still alive when Jesus returns going to die?

 

[Jacob]

The 42 months are 3.5 years.

Yes.

Where is this spoken of in scripture?

 

[Aimiel]

Well, isn't everyone that is not still alive when Jesus returns going to die?

Hunh?