You all have a crippling metaphysical problem in your ideology of God.
The only way you can really trump 'free will' is by limiting God.
Reformed Theology: Somewhere Between..
- Thread starter ARMcCarley
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You all have a crippling metaphysical problem in your ideology of God.
The only way you can really trump 'free will' is by limiting God.
I can only agree with Clete: you didn't respond to what I said, which was about omnipotence.
If there is pretty much anything whatsoever that you can say about God in a positive, substantive way (like 'God is X'), then you have limited him. If you say so much as 'God is a God of love', then you have limited him. But judging from your previous comments and non-answers, I neither expect you to understand what I just said, nor do I expect you to answer it or my first comment. Because you are a weasel and weasels don't stay still to answer questions. They know they would die if they did.
I don't answer stupid questions and adhere to demands. The only weasels are the one's basically making crap up to keep the illogical notion of free will afloat.
You believe in Christ because God made it to where you would. If you lived in Bangkok you'd be Buddhist. If your father was a renowned physicist, you'd probably be an atheist. Whatever happened in your life to make you a believer, your choice was not one of those things.
My questions are not stupid. The stupid one is the one who refuses to answer them. Stupid because you are deceiving yourself. You don't know what I believe or why I believe it and you have done nothing to show that free will is illogical other than to say that in your own personal opinion God cannot make an agent capable of willing something on his own. It is just your personal view, there is nothing logical about it whatsoever. And as I have shown, your view contradicts the notion that God is omnipotent. Your argument fails competely.
My prediction was correct: that you would not answer the question. If all you can rustle up is some silly hypothesis that if I had been born in Bankok I would be a Buddhist, then you have failed. You don't even know if I was born in Bankok. Sheesh!
May argument is that the notion of free will limits God.
You made a sorry attempt at trying to reverse that around.
You haven't shown anything except that you are sore and a whiner.
That isn't an argument. It is just your opinion. It's an opinion that contradicts the notion that God is omnipotent because it proposes that God cannot make a person with his own will. Which itself is a limitation on God.
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
Free will doesn't limit God, as if Free will itself has some power over God. God willingly gave the power of free will to us to create love, that is impossible without freedom.
That doesn't take away from His glory. He made the way, He gave the gifts of the Cross and Himself.
babel means confusion
and
the calvinists are the leading cause of it
they have corrupted the language
words no longer have meaning
all in an effort to convince us we don't have free will
so
we can't be held responsible for what we do
I can't think of a more dangerous belief
and
the calvinists are the leading cause of it
they have corrupted the language
words no longer have meaning
all in an effort to convince us we don't have free will
so
we can't be held responsible for what we do
I can't think of a more dangerous belief
Power of free will limits God so that means there isn't free will while God exists. Men don't won't God to exist so they invent free will
they use their free will to do it
While God passes over them. The great bypass
Can God write a new song?
Calvinism is empowering. What's dangerous is a belief which gives other people power. I wonder which one that is :think:
And
You can be held responsible for what you do because you are intrinsically wicked.
Calvinism is the only set of beliefs that don't contradict themselves and people know it. It's a splinter in your mind, and that drives people mad so they go and make an obsessive display of slandering and trying to conflict it.
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
Nothing could stop God. God gave us power and free will as He chose to. Just as He did with the Angels. That is His sovereign will. God chooses to gives us decision making power. The only thing that controls God is Himself.
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
You are proving the pride building danger of Calvinism that some are somehow more special or more loved by God. All have the flesh/the sinful nature/the darkness that God wants to eradicate by our submission to Him.
Notice what it is that Crucible is loyal too here in his pseudo argument. He isn't arguing on the basis of truth (i.e. on reality) but on the basis of his doctrine.
What free will believers, Open Theists in particular, argue for is a theology that is consistent with reality. In other words, we begin with the notion that what is true is true, what's real is real, A is A. We then begin a process by which we attempt to figure out what A is.
Crucible, and most all Augustinian theists so far as I can tell, do the opposite. They begin with their doctrine! In the case of Augustinian theology they begin with the absolute immutability of God. That is the starting point, their foundational PRESUPPOSITION! It never occurs to them that their doctrine of immutability might not have any relationship to reality because they've built their reality on that foundation and will automatically reject, that is they will reject without need for argument, any idea that threatens the notion that God is utterly unchangeable.
Circular reasoning and self-contradictory nonsense.
What we do is what makes us wicked. So says GOD - not me.
And
According to your own doctrine we neither have any choice in what we do nor in what we are "intrinsically". According to you, God decided all that before we ever existed. Thus, by God's own standard, if we are punished for what God made us to be, He is unjust.
Saying it doesn't make it so. See above.
If this were so, there would be no need for the term 'antinomy', which Calvinists all over the world use as the catch all trump card for all their internal inconsistencies.
Again, saying it doesn't make it so.
Crucible has figured out that he cannot win a debate and so has resorted to ignoring arguments. Instead, he makes bald assertions and attempts to win on an emotional level by acting as though those who disagree with him are mad men with splinters in their minds.
If anything, it is quite the reverse. It is the Calvinists who cannot use their mind. It is the Calvinist who has knowingly and willfully discarded sound reason and who has as a result debased their own mind. The Calvinist (and other Augustinian theologies) that are forced to redefine common words in order for their doctrine to even get past the most rudimentary common sense objections. And the difference between me making that claim and Crucible making a similar claim is that this thread exists as do countless other threads throughout this website some of which are decades old and all still there for anyone to read. Hundreds of thousands of pages of Calvinists getting their hats handed to them over and over and over again.
Resting in Him,
Clete
How is man going to choose what they can't see nor hear? It is man who: - is deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9).- is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23).- loves darkness rather than light (John 3:19).- is unrighteous, does not understand, does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12).- is helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6).- is dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1).- is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3).- cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14).- is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).
You believe that God is unjust then?
That is the alternative. That or He does not exist at all.
Unjust is a coverup invented by unregenrates. The unregerates knows God don't exist. The elects knows God is the judge. God didnt create hell for nothing.
musterion
Well-known member
Anyone who says free will could somehow limit or thwart God's absolute rule over the universe has a low view of God.