Reconciled Unto God, NOT Predestinated

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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
There is no scripture in the Bible about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. The word "predestinate" only appears in the bible four times. Here is how the word is used.

"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself" Ephesians 1:5.

"Being predestinated according to the purpose of him who works all things after the counsel of his will" Ephesians 1:11.

"For whom he did foreknow he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son" Romans 8:29

"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called" Romans 8:30.

If I did not know and understand the Gospel that calls all things into question, I would probably be a Calvinist also. Predestination is NOT according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In the Gospel God does NOTHING outside of his Son Jesus Christ. If God predestinates people to heaven or to hell before they are born then God is unjust and cannot be trusted. If predestination was the way of salvation the Bible would be full of it. There is nothing. The words "believe" and "faith" appear hundreds of times in the Bible.

The Bible teaches that we have been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ and not predestinated. Here are the scriptures that teach reconciliation.

"All things are of God who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ" 2 Corinthians 5:18.

"God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.

"We pray you in Christ's stead be ye reconciled unto God" 2 Corinthians 5:20.

"For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled by the death of his Son" Romans 5:10.

"And having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself" Colossians 1:20.

"And you that were sometimes alienated and enemies in you mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled" Colossians 1:21

"And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross" Ephesians 2:16.

"He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people' Hebrews 2:17.

Predestination eliminates the need to be reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ. If you believe that you have been predestinated then there is no need to be reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ. Reconciliation is a big part of the Gospel. "God was in Christ reconciling us and the world unto himself" is the Gospel. Predestination by passes that because it is not necessary to be reconciled unto God if you believe that you have been predestinated.
 
fishrovmen

fishrovmen

Active member
Robert Pate said:
There is no scripture in the Bible about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. The word "predestinate" only appears in the bible four times. Here is how the word is used.

"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself" Ephesians 1:5.

"Being predestinated according to the purpose of him who works all things after the counsel of his will" Ephesians 1:11.

"For whom he did foreknow he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son" Romans 8:29

"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called" Romans 8:30.

If I did not know and understand the Gospel that calls all things into question, I would probably be a Calvinist also. Predestination is NOT according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In the Gospel God does NOTHING outside of his Son Jesus Christ. If God predestinates people to heaven or to hell before they are born then God is unjust and cannot be trusted. If predestination was the way of salvation the Bible would be full of it. There is nothing. The words "believe" and "faith" appear hundreds of times in the Bible.

The Bible teaches that we have been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ and not predestinated. Here are the scriptures that teach reconciliation.

"All things are of God who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ" 2 Corinthians 5:18.

"God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.

"We pray you in Christ's stead be ye reconciled unto God" 2 Corinthians 5:20.

"For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled by the death of his Son" Romans 5:10.

"And having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself" Colossians 1:20.

"And you that were sometimes alienated and enemies in you mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled" Colossians 1:21

"And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross" Ephesians 2:16.

"He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people' Hebrews 2:17.

Predestination eliminates the need to be reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ. If you believe that you have been predestinated then there is no need to be reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ. Reconciliation is a big part of the Gospel. "God was in Christ reconciling us and the world unto himself" is the Gospel. Predestination by passes that because it is not necessary to be reconciled unto God if you believe that you have been predestinated.
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Robert, were you called according to God's purpose?
 
fishrovmen

fishrovmen

Active member
Robert Pate said:
What is God's purpose?

God's purpose or will is that none should perish, but that all would believe on his Son Jesus Christ, 1 Peter 3:9.
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Romans 8:28. All things work together for good to those who love God and are the called according to His purpose. Were you "called according to His purpose"?
 
fishrovmen

fishrovmen

Active member
Nonon said:
He did answer you though?
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Where? All I see is him trying to tell me what God's purpose is, but he doesn't tell me if he, himself was called according to God's purpose.
It's like me trying to call someone on the phone to get together and getting their voicemail.
The question is not about WHY I called, but rather, did that person listen and respond to the voicemail.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
fishrovmen said:
Where? All I see is him trying to tell me what God's purpose is, but he doesn't tell me if he, himself was called according to God's purpose.
It's like me trying to call someone on the phone to get together and getting their voicemail.
The question is not about WHY I called, but rather, did that person listen and respond to the voicemail.
Click to expand...

The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ.

Many hear the call, but harden their hearts, Hebrews 3:15.

Most people come to Christ when they are children. Those that don't come to Christ are without an excuse, Romans 1:18-25. Just like you. I have given you enough light to light a city, but you want to remain in darkness.
 
fishrovmen

fishrovmen

Active member
Robert Pate said:
The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ.

Many hear the call, but harden their hearts, Hebrews 3:15.

Most people come to Christ when they are children. Those that don't come to Christ are without an excuse, Romans 1:18-25. Just like you. I have given you enough light to light a city, but you want to remain in darkness.
Click to expand...

Can't understand a question. Check. Give an answer that has nothing to do with question. Check. Evade and deflect by posting lies about someone else. Check. Start a new repetitious thread that mirrors many others. Check. Right on schedule Robert!
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
fishrovmen said:
Can't understand a question. Check. Give an answer that has nothing to do with question. Check. Evade and deflect by posting lies about someone else. Check. Start a new repetitious thread that mirrors many others. Check. Right on schedule Robert!
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If you don't like what I say then don't read what I post.

If you want answers the answers are in the Bible. Try reading it.
 
fishrovmen

fishrovmen

Active member
Robert Pate said:
If you don't like what I say then don't read what I post.

If you want answers the answers are in the Bible. Try reading it.
Click to expand...

What the Bible reveals is much different from what you say. The things that you say are very revealing also. If you want to post unbiblical theories, you should at the very least be able to explain what you post.
I would exhort you to read James 3:1 but you have a low opinion of James.
What would you do if someone quoted from the apostles doctrine book that YOU wrote and gave explanations that didn't line up with what you actually believe?
Would you not want to correct them, and explain how they were wrong?
I actually have a high value of God's word and take passages such as Jude verse 3 seriously.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
fishrovmen said:
What the Bible reveals is much different from what you say. The things that you say are very revealing also. If you want to post unbiblical theories, you should at the very least be able to explain what you post.
I would exhort you to read James 3:1 but you have a low opinion of James.
What would you do if someone quoted from the apostles doctrine book that YOU wrote and gave explanations that didn't line up with what you actually believe?
Would you not want to correct them, and explain how they were wrong?
I actually have a high value of God's word and take passages such as Jude verse 3 seriously.
Click to expand...


I don't have a low opinion of James. I am sure that James came into a full understanding of the Gospel and justification at a later date. Paul was probably instrumental in bringing him into the truth.

The book that I wrote is backed up with scriptures.

There is no contradiction between what I wrote and what I believe now.

You try to fit Calvinism into the Bible and it won't fit.
 
ttruscott

ttruscott

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
There is no scripture in the Bible about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. The word "predestinate" only appears in the bible four times. Here is how the word is used.

"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself" Ephesians 1:5.
Click to expand...
...and since all of HIS children will be saved and end in heaven, it is the same thing.

"Being predestinated according to the purpose of him who works all things after the counsel of his will" Ephesians 1:11.
Click to expand...
• God has promised that those who believe in Jesus and are baptized for the forgiveness of sins will be saved. (Read Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38). HIS purpose is salvation and heaven.
• God has promised His people eternal life (John 10:27,28). HIS purpose is life in heaven...

"For whom he did foreknow he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son" Romans 8:29
Click to expand...
And where do those conformed to the image of HIS Son 'live?'

"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called" Romans 8:30.
Click to expand...
They are predestined first, then called out of their sin.

If God predestinates people to heaven or to hell before they are born then God is unjust and cannot be trusted. If predestination was the way of salvation the Bible would be full of it. There is nothing. The words "believe" and "faith" appear hundreds of times in the Bible.
Click to expand...
IF God predestinates people to heaven or to hell before they are CREATED then God is unjust and cannot be trusted. BUT IF birth is NOT our creation but only our entry into Adam's death and Christ's salvation then HIS predestination of us to heaven as saved is just fine. Predestination is not the WAY of salvation - salvation is the way of predestination!!

The sheep join the flock. The sheep go astray into sin. The sheep are returned to the flock. As sinners born, when did we go astray People become the flock by HIS election of them to be HIS Bride and are thereby brought under the promise of salvation. Some then go astray into sin wherein they forget their place in Him and rebel against Him. HE calls them out of their sin, fulfilling HIS promises of salvation and election in them.

Predestination eliminates the need to be reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ. If you believe that you have been predestinated then there is no need to be reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ. Reconciliation is a big part of the Gospel. "God was in Christ reconciling us and the world unto himself" is the Gospel. Predestination by passes that because it is not necessary to be reconciled unto God if you believe that you have been predestinated.
Click to expand...

You are wrong - to be given a promise is not to have the promise in your hand. Election is the promise of salvation for any future sin.
I promise my son $100 in three days. I must still give him the money or the promise is not fulfilled and he has no money.
Christ promised us salvation by His death (chosen before the foundation of the world to be the slain Lamb) but then He had to actually die for us to receive the promise and call us into that death by our rebirth to fulfill His promise in us. The promise of election does not eliminate the cross but forces it as the chosen method of fulfilling the promise.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
ttruscott said:
...and since all of HIS children will be saved and end in heaven, it is the same thing.

• God has promised that those who believe in Jesus and are baptized for the forgiveness of sins will be saved. (Read Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38). HIS purpose is salvation and heaven.
• God has promised His people eternal life (John 10:27,28). HIS purpose is life in heaven...

And where do those conformed to the image of HIS Son 'live?'

They are predestined first, then called out of their sin.

IF God predestinates people to heaven or to hell before they are CREATED then God is unjust and cannot be trusted. BUT IF birth is NOT our creation but only our entry into Adam's death and Christ's salvation then HIS predestination of us to heaven as saved is just fine. Predestination is not the WAY of salvation - salvation is the way of predestination!!

The sheep join the flock. The sheep go astray into sin. The sheep are returned to the flock. As sinners born, when did we go astray People become the flock by HIS election of them to be HIS Bride and are thereby brought under the promise of salvation. Some then go astray into sin wherein they forget their place in Him and rebel against Him. HE calls them out of their sin, fulfilling HIS promises of salvation and election in them.



You are wrong - to be given a promise is not to have the promise in your hand. Election is the promise of salvation for any future sin.
I promise my son $100 in three days. I must still give him the money or the promise is not fulfilled and he has no money.
Christ promised us salvation by His death (chosen before the foundation of the world to be the slain Lamb) but then He had to actually die for us to receive the promise and call us into that death by our rebirth to fulfill His promise in us. The promise of election does not eliminate the cross but forces it as the chosen method of fulfilling the promise.
Click to expand...

The promise of salvation was given to the whole world, 1 John 4:14. Jesus has atoned for the sins of everyone, Hebrews 2:9. Not for just the sins of some certain persons. The promise was made to all, Acts 2:39. The call is to the whole world, no one is excluded, so that now, "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
 
fishrovmen

fishrovmen

Active member
Robert Pate said:
I don't have a low opinion of James. I am sure that James came into a full understanding of the Gospel and justification at a later date. Paul was probably instrumental in bringing him into the truth.

The book that I wrote is backed up with scriptures.

There is no contradiction between what I wrote and what I believe now.

You try to fit Calvinism into the Bible and it won't fit.
Click to expand...

Check, check and check.
 
N

Nebulaz

New member
[MENTION=2356]Robert[/MENTION], [MENTION=790]FiSH[/MENTION]

I feel like prior to each of you posting an etiological definitions should be provided to help provide contextual clarification of your backgrounds.

I do not know where either of you stand Christian or not; however, [MENTION=790]FiSH[/MENTION] I was extremely embarrassed by how you have engaged [MENTION=2356]Robert[/MENTION].

I could not tell if Robert was intentionally being vague or not, which could have been done to fan the flames.

But if you are both elected in the seed of Abraham, you should model brotherly love. And that was not on display.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Nebulaz said:
[MENTION=2356]Robert[/MENTION], [MENTION=790]FiSH[/MENTION]

I feel like prior to each of you posting an etiological definitions should be provided to help provide contextual clarification of your backgrounds.

I do not know where either of you stand Christian or not; however, [MENTION=790]FiSH[/MENTION] I was extremely embarrassed by how you have engaged [MENTION=2356]Robert[/MENTION].

I could not tell if Robert was intentionally being vague or not, which could have been done to fan the flames.

But if you are both elected in the seed of Abraham, you should model brotherly love. And that was not on display.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


What is an etiological definition? I can't find the word in my dictionary.

As far as my election goes. I was elected in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world. God has chosen all of humanity in Jesus Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:19.
 
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