Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

[God's Truth]

I can't really adequately respond.

If you say you are not a Christian, then you are denying him now.

 

[nikolai_42]

Knox? No. Reformers? At that point time and earlier, probably not.

Question for you: What do you believe is the "Spiritual" and "spiritual" condition of the todays church and why?

I would add another example (more recent) in Charles Spurgeon who pointed to a man he didn't know and called him out. His comments in his autobiography follow :

I could tell as many as a dozen similar cases in which I pointed at somebody in the hall without having the slightest knowledge of the person, or any idea that what I said was right, except that I believed I was moved by the Spirit to say it; and so striking has been my description, that the persons have gone away, and said to their friends, ‘Come, see a man that told me all things that ever I did; beyond a doubt, he must have been sent of God to my soul, or else he could not have described me so exactly.’ And not only so, but I have known many instances in which the thoughts of men have been revealed from the pulpit. I have sometimes seen persons nudge their neighbours with their elbow, because they had got a smart hit, and they have been heard to say, when they were going out, ‘The preacher told us just what we said to one another when we went in at the door

{From Spurgeon's Autobiography (1899)

He publicly disavowed being a prophet and believed the gifts had ceased (at the very least in the apostolic sense) but the above is more than just intuition. But he was not "Pentecostal".

 

[serpentdove]

[Does intercessory prayer mean a thing to you? Rom. 10:1–4, Jacob wrestles with God (Ge 32:24–32)] ...[T]his was not an "intercessory prayer" on the part of Jacob.

Eph 4:14 :freak:

 

[Eagles Wings]

Eph 4:14 :freak:

You do this with Cruciform. Did you grow up in the RCC?

 

[Cross Reference]

I would add another example (more recent) in Charles Spurgeon who pointed to a man he didn't know and called him out. His comments in his autobiography follow :



He publicly disavowed being a prophet and believed the gifts had ceased (at the very least in the apostolic sense) but the above is more than just intuition. But he was not "Pentecostal".

Nor can we say it was by the "Holy" Spirit that "such presence of mind" originated within him, can we? Did he ever record the results or conclusion to such inclinations? Did they ever change lives? Was the church edified?

". . . . having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."
2 Timothy 3:5 (KJV)

Speak of what Spurgeon was only noted for?

 

[serpentdove]

[Why pray?] God knows, but I do not. I will not change His mind, but I pray with acceptance and faith that He is wiser than I [sic], so that if He withholds salvation from those I pray for, He has reason.

Why pray? You could be playing foosball.

It shows a serious lack of faith for anyone to pray to God with the intention of "changing God's mind."

:yawn: Take it up with Abraham:

Then Abraham came near and said, “Will you indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city; will you then sweep away the place and not forgive it for the fifty righteous who are in it? Far be it from you to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from you! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do what is just?” And the LORD said, “If I find at Sodom fifty righteous in the city, I will forgive the whole place for their sake.” Abraham answered, “Let me take it upon myself to speak to the Lord, I who am but dust and ashes. Suppose five of the fifty righteous are lacking? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five?” And he said, “I will not destroy it if I find forty-five there.” Again he spoke to him, “Suppose forty are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of forty I will not do it.” Then he said, “Oh do not let the Lord be angry if I speak. Suppose thirty are found there.” He answered, “I will not do it, if I find thirty there.” He said, “Let me take it upon myself to speak to the Lord. Suppose twenty are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of twenty I will not destroy it.” Then he said, “Oh do not let the Lord be angry if I speak just once more. Suppose ten are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of ten I will not destroy it.” And the LORD went his way, when he had finished speaking to Abraham; and Abraham returned to his place (Ge 18:23–33).

God forbid! God knows best and knows all...

:yawn: Strawman

...and none of His creatures can claim such.

:yawn: Strawman

If anyone goes to hell, it is because God is just, wise, and good.

:yawn: Strawman

 

[serpentdove]

Would you like to hear what a Christian parent says to their children?

Follow me, as I follow Christ.

...And God bless daddy and mommy and uncle Joe and auntie Margie...

No son, not auntie Margie. She's a headcase. :listen: Doesn't seem like she's one of God's

elect. Move along in prayer now. :freak:

 

[Eagles Wings]

...And God bless daddy and mommy and uncle Joe and auntie Margie...

No son, not auntie Margie. She's a headcase. :listen:

Doesn't seem like she's one of God's

elect. Move along in prayer now. :freak:

How would you pray for someone who did not know Christ? Sonnet says he does not believe. Pray for him, as many of us here are.

 

[nikolai_42]

Nor can we say it was by the "Holy" Spirit that "such presence of mind" originated within him, can we? Did he ever record the results or conclusion to such inclinations? Did they ever change lives? Was the church edified?

". . . . having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."
2 Timothy 3:5 (KJV)

Speak of what Spurgeon was only noted for?

I hardly think that changing the name of what it was that happened to him is tantamount to denying the power thereof. He explicitly credited the Holy Spirit for what happened. But he didn't need to draw attention to it. He was merely explaining it. I think the disinclination to call it prophecy is because of a strong belief in cessationism. Not a denial of what it is, but what to call it. Spurgeon agreed what he was moved to say was correct and that it wasn't of his own ideas that he conjured this up - and that it was of God. But to call it prophecy opens the door to say there may still be the office (or continual gift, so to speak) of a prophet. That is what I think is the resistance.

A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh a sign...

 

[serpentdove]

Not forgetting vv.14&15.

:thumb:

And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life (Jn 3:14–16).

 

[Eagles Wings]

...And God bless daddy and mommy and uncle Joe and auntie Margie...

No son, not auntie Margie. She's a headcase. :listen: Doesn't seem like she's one of God's

elect. Move along in prayer now. :freak:

Here is sample prayer:

"Dear God, that my child/friend/sister/neighbor, might come to saving faith in Jesus Christ. Make provision for a clear opportunity for me to bring him/her to a saving knowledge of Christ. Give me opportunity and boldness to invite_________to come home to You." (Luke14:23)

"God, grant_________a good will to respond to Thy call."

"O Lord, give______a new heart to believe in You."

 

[serpentdove]

Isaiah 46:10

Sure God knows all that is, has and will occur. God must be Sovereign mustn't He?

How did He guarantee Jesus ended up on the cross?

That was his plan from the foundation of the world. He made it happen. John MacArthur said Jesus couldn't have gone to the cross unless God saw it in advance. :dizzy:

 

[Cross Reference]

I hardly think that changing the name of what it was that happened to him is tantamount to denying the power thereof.

Tantamount? That is your word, not mine. However, without Pentecost, one can only assume because he nothing to work with except presumption. I refer you back to my scripture reference for guidance.

He explicitly credited the Holy Spirit for what happened.

But never with certainty that it was.

But he didn't need to draw attention to it.

Because his personal understanding of Pentecost would have been called into question and heavens to murgitroy, we couldn't have that, could we?

He was merely explaining it.

You mean, explaining it away?

I think the disinclination to call it prophecy is because of a strong belief in cessationism.

I denial for sure.

Not a denial of what it is, but what to call it.

Yep.

Spurgeon agreed what he was moved to say was correct and that it wasn't of his own ideas that he conjured this up - and that it was of God.

Conjure is probably the word to use. Spurgeon could very well have been calling a Liar.

But to call it prophecy opens the door to say there may still be the office (or continual gift, so to speak) of a prophet. That is what I think is the resistance.

Why of course. We are left no other solution.

A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh a sign...

What about signs without seeking them?

I had a friend [he is with the Lord] with only a third grade education who spoke in tongues at a very large evangelistic gathering of saved and unsaved folk. His gift of Tongues sounded like what might have been an Amercan indian dialect of some sort. His message in Tongues was received privatedly by an unbelieving soul clear across the way who immediatedly got up and ran to the alter to repent in a very emotional way. He in the afterwards, sought out my friend to speak of what was a very private admonishionment he understood in his native tongue which was, German.

 

[Cross Reference]

That was his plan from the foundation of the world. He made it happen. John MacArthur said Jesus couldn't have gone to the cross unless God saw it in advance. :dizzy:

God didn't make it happen. Jesus, the man, did. That is what Gethsemane was all about, i.e., Jesus yielding His [love] will to His Father's heart's desire to make possible the vast family of many sons to be brought unto glory through redemption. Jesus set the captives free. God could not have accomplished it without Him.. Jesus was the only person who could ever have done such an otherwise impossible task.

 

[nikolai_42]

What about signs without seeking them?

I had a friend [he is with the Lord] with only a third grade education who spoke in tongues at a very large evangelistic gathering of saved and unsaved folk. His gift of Tongues sounded like what might have been an Amercan indian dialect of some sort. His message in Tongues was received privatedly by an unbelieving soul clear across the way who immediatedly got up and ran to the alter to repent in a very emotional exhibition. He in the afterwards, sought out my friend to speak of what was a very private admonishionment he understood in his native tongue which was, German.

I believe they occur. But you have cast away John Knox and Charles Spurgeon in favor of your friend because of your experience. I wouldn't deny your friend's experience either (and I know - second hand - about a very similar occurrence an old relative had - a missionary who saw the same sort of thing occur) but Pentecost is framed as an experience - as something to seek from God. And because Knox and Spurgeon didn't speak in tongues, does that invalidate their testimonies? Implying that because they don't ascribe to an experience, then their power is not of God (at least that's what I get from your reception of "conjure") seems dangerous. Knox and Spurgeon both saw great fruit in their ministries.

 

[serpentdove]

How would you pray for someone who did not know Christ?

That he come to know him.

Heartlight ~ Neil Diamond

 

[serpentdove]

Here is sample prayer:

"Dear God, that my child/friend/sister/neighbor, might come to saving faith in Jesus Christ. Make provision for a clear opportunity for me to bring him/her to a saving knowledge of Christ. Give me opportunity and boldness to invite_________to come home to You." (Luke14:23)

"God, grant_________a good will to respond to Thy call."

"O Lord, give______a new heart to believe in You."

:thumb: Much better than that gay Neil Diamond song. :scripto:

 

[Cross Reference]

I believe they occur. But you have cast away John Knox and Charles Spurgeon in favor of your friend because of your experience.

No. I cast away Knox and Spurgeon because of their experience or should I say, lack of one in the Holy Ghost.

I wouldn't deny your friend's experience either (and I know - second hand - about a very similar occurrence an old relative had - a missionary who saw the same sort of thing occur) but Pentecost is framed as an experience - as something to seek from God.

So, unframe it.

And because Knox and Spurgeon didn't speak in tongues, does that invalidate their testimonies? Implying that because they don't ascribe to an experience, then their power is not of God (at least that's what I get from your reception of "conjure") seems dangerous. Knox and Spurgeon both saw great fruit in their ministries.

They denied it by their doubt. I gave you the reasons why.

And "fruit" you say? What fruit? Calvinism? Calvinism has been a bane to all of Christendom; the church of today being an institution of dead doctrine.

 

[nikolai_42]

I believe they occur. But you have cast away John Knox and Charles Spurgeon in favor of your friend because of your experience.

No. I cast away Knox and Spurgeon because of their experience or should I say, lack of one in the Holy Ghost.



So, unframe it.




They denied it, I didn't.

And "fruit" you say? What fruit? Calvinism? Calvinism has been a bane to all of Christendom.

Denied what? They did not - as you indicate - deny the power. They simply denied that they held a position where they were to prophesy. What Spurgeon described as prophecy ironically (I think) denied to call it that. But he said it was of God, admitted its accuracy and simply said he was used of God. That's not denying the power - just the label. No biblical issue that I see with that. God can correct him if so needed.

And if you deny the fruit of Knox, for example, would you prefer Europe have remained Papist and Roman Catholic?

 

[serpentdove]

[Plan calling out a people, going to cross] God didn't make it happen. Jesus, the man, did...

Jn 1:1-3

As a reminder Cross Reference is number 7 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in the Misc. category. :burnlib: