Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

[Cross Reference]

Where has God made this decree?

"He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy". Proverbs 29:1 (KJV)

". . . . as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, . . . . " Romans 1:28 (KJV)

 

[Cross Reference]

That passage calls Jesus God!!!

It's about the Light of the world and the bottom passage addresses Him as YHWH.

Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Does God have a King?


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Did Jesus have a Father? Who did Jesus say was greater than Him? How come He could say that and then address Himself as being the "I AM"?

 

[Cross Reference]

Yes.

And that is the way it is.

I'm going to cut you some slack because I'm almost certain you've never spoken to a real Reformed Christian really. We do not hold to contemporary bias.
We are old school- we believe in a sovereignty of God that the world today frankly cannot agree to, because it is so far gone that it cannot comprehend much of anything that isn't convenient to itself.

I understand and though not of Calvin, TULIP and His understanding of the Sovereignty of God, I do consider myself to be a reform Christian. Where most folk, reform or orthodox, disagree with me is in the need for insight into the written word as opposed to the "scholarly/creedal only" method. My reasoning stems from 'seeing' how Jesus succeeded in His testings, being limited by His humanity and, the "why" of it all given us that we might benefit as He did.

 

[Cross Reference]

Dort explicitly claims that v.11 identifies the elect as those 'given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven' and the reprobates as the rest ('but to them it has not been given').
Is the one who says a sinners prayer given the secrets of the kingdom of heaven? We assume he is saved so, Why? Why not?

How 'bout Lon/AMR? I am looking for a yes or no for that question with rational reasoning to support it.

 

[Cross Reference]

We all inherit the sentence of death and a propensity to sin.

In his innocense, Adam was given to deal with the law of his flesh that was in direct opposition to the command of God [verbal law] upon which all of Adam's life was conditioned. (cf Rom 8:20KJV) The dispostion of of life and death, hung in the balance. Would his innocent soul remain faithful or would he succumb to the desire of his flesh which functioned through his eyeballs to, once the "doorway" was opened, eternally have access to his soul with no outside interference from God other than "soulish conscienceness" could provide, leaving Adam's progeny to be forever condemned to eternal separation from the power of God that could only restore them to the original condition of innocence, purposed to be made holy.

OMT: Remember, there was no advocate with God by which Adam could have access to Him and by which reconciation could be made possible..Innocent human blood needed to be presented God for that to happen. Adam's race was forever condemned to the "law of the flesh". Enter, Jesus Christ.

 

[Cross Reference]

No, it is not. Don't be coy. Are you hinting that while the slaughter of entire nations is one thing, those so slaughtered all went to be with the Lord as if God was doing them a favor, especially the little ones who might have lived on and became as odious as their pagan parents?

AMR

Why do you continually presume upon what others aren't inferring or implying? Death is NOT the end, is it?
In this case, death means salvation for many, especially the young and innocent of any "outside" the camp who have not as yet made their choice between good and evil. . . and who knows this but, God?

 

[Rosenritter]

"He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy". Proverbs 29:1 (KJV)

". . . . as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, . . . . " Romans 1:28 (KJV)

As that is written, seems that it is the destruction that is without remedy, not the act of condemnation to that destruction.

In such cases where there is sincere repentance, the Lord will not turn that away.

Psalm 51:17 KJV
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

I don't think it is a good idea for us to judge that anyone has sinned "too many times" to be able to repent.

 

[TulipBee]

there is only one gospel
-Jesus suffered and died so we might be saved
-this I believe

sonnet said you dont

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Did Jesus have a Father? Who did Jesus say was greater than Him? How come He could say that and then address Himself as being the "I AM"?

CR,

This mystery is fully revealed in Philippians 2

The Lord verbiage in verse 11 is the Greek for YHWH

Philippians 2:

Christ’s Humility and Exaltation

5 Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus,

6 who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God
as something to be used for His own advantage.
7 Instead He emptied Himself
by assuming the form of a slave,
taking on the likeness of men.
And when He had come as a man
in His external form,
8 He humbled Himself by becoming obedient
to the point of death—
even to death on a cross.
9 For this reason God highly exalted Him
and gave Him the name
that is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus
every knee will bow—
of those who are in heaven and on earth
and under the earth—
11 and every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.



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[Cross Reference]

CR,

This mystery is fully revealed in Philippians 2

The Lord verbiage in verse 11 is the Greek for YHWH

Philippians 2:

Christ’s Humility and Exaltation

5 Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus,

6 who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God
as something to be used for His own advantage.
7 Instead He emptied Himself
by assuming the form of a slave,
taking on the likeness of men.
And when He had come as a man
in His external form,
8 He humbled Himself by becoming obedient
to the point of death—
even to death on a cross.
9 For this reason God highly exalted Him
and gave Him the name
that is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus
every knee will bow—
of those who are in heaven and on earth
and under the earth—
11 and every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.



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I know all that. Nevertheless, I asked the question of you and desire an answer with an explanation as to how that could be possible or impossible depending upon your religion.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

For one, way to be Cloud from FF7

Also,
Reprobation is simply the acknowledgement of the undisciplined who pretend to be Godly but are not.

Wow!!!! Crucible, I fully understand this the way you have expressed it!

And thank you!!!

Mega Props for recognizing Cloud!

I'm smiling. :Joyful:

[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]


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[Nameless.In.Grace]

Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

I know all that. Nevertheless, I asked the question of you and desire an answer with an explanation as to how that could be possible or impossible depending upon your religion.

If you desire to know my religion, read all of James.

I do not bind to doctrines of man.

I bind to the Father through Love in Jesus Christ, the Spirit of Christ is my guide. He is the Great Counselor. He is the Holy Spirit.

I also believe all scripture is God Breathed.

The Greatest Name above all names is Jesus Christ.

How can you not understand me, friend?


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[Cross Reference]

As that is written, seems that it is the destruction that is without remedy, not the act of condemnation to that destruction.

Both? I don't think so as written.

In such cases where there is sincere repentance, the Lord will not turn that away.

That would be a problem, wouldn't it, if that one unwilling remained unwilling?

Psalm 51:17 KJV
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

No broken spirit I see in what I posited.

I don't think it is a good idea for us to judge that anyone has sinned "too many times" to be able to repent.

Judgment???? God did that by administering His death sentence. Argue Rom 1:28 KJV with Him. Tell Him he did wrongly. Then tack the words from Proverbs, "without remedy", on the end of it.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

Where have I denied this particular attribute of God? :idunno:

My quibble is with your seeming elevation of this one attribute above all others. To do so is error and leads to many exegetical gymnastics attempting to overcome clearly didactic passages such as Romans 2:3-5, and Romans 9:13. We are not encouraged even by Johannine theology to infer from the statement "God is love" that God relates to individuals only in terms of love. I recommend you review this: http://goo.gl/nqSrJn

Please go back and review my response and all of its content:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?p=4775251#post4775251

See also: goo.gl/NpLJzb

And since you are quoting Calvin, let's not overlook the full corpus of the man's writings. Calvin's Institutes began in 1536 as a very short work when he was but under twenty-five years of age. By the time he finished revising the work in 1559 (over twenty years later as he grew in his walk of faith and from thousands of sermons delivered) very near his death it was a much enlarged work.

For example, there is a sermon on Deuteronomy which spells out the theological contours of Calvin's thought on this. In that sermon, Calvin says (Sermons on Deuteronomy, 1189)...

"God then doth love all people. Yea, but not in comparison of his Church. And why? For all the children of Adam are enemies unto God by reason of the corruption that is in them. True it is that God loveth them as his creatures: but yet he must needes hate them, because they be perverted and given to all evil. And that is the cause why the Scripture telleth us that God repented him that he ever made man, considering that man is so marred."

So for Calvin, man stands in one relation to God as creature and another relation as sinner. One must be careful to distinguish the sense in which God bears a love to all men. It must be restricted to their creatureliness and to what might be called the original pattern of creation. Superimposed upon that is another layer relative to the fall. And superimposed upon that is yet another layer with respect to redemption.

AMR

This is a fair expression. However, we are talking about the Alpha and Omega who is One per scripture.

Jesus said to see Him is to see the Father.

John beats it in that Love is the defining trait of discerning those who are in Jesus.

Jesus loved sinners and threw self professed saints to the ground with brilliant quoting of scripture and righteous indignation for their expressions of Love that were cloaked in hate.

Jesus never condemned one sinner!

He only condemned the Law abiding Pharisees that marred the Loving and forgiving nature of The Father and He even forgave them on the Cross.

How can the Author of love, who is clearly only wrathful from the perspective of Love, be anything but Love. I'm not certain that you realize HOW important Love is.

That is the missing Sola.

"LOVE ALONE"

This is where reformed theology needs reformation.

I am now certain.


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[Cross Reference]

If you desire to know my religion, read all of James.

I do not bind to doctrines of man.

I bind to the Father through Love in Jesus Christ, the Spirit of Christ is my guide. He is the Great Counselor. He is the Holy Spirit.

I also believe all scripture is God Breathed.

The Greatest Name above all names is Jesus Christ.

How can you not understand me, friend?


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Because you are all over the "map" with your pronouncements and explanations. You are a mystery boxed in an enigma.

 

[TulipBee]

The doctrine of predestination relates only to salvation of God's elect . The non-elect are by passed and left in just condemnation for their sin . They are not " predestined unto sin but rather reprobated for sin . Damnation is on us .*

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

I zero in on this.

The Arminian reasons incorrectly that this is the Gospel presentation—that God loves all mankind equally and gives no preference to anyone. Sigh. This is the stuff of Finneyism's altar calls underlying an egregious universalistic error that Jesus died for the sins of each and every person who ever lived and will live.

This quote is from your words here[emoji118]

I am no Armenian, however your entire post unravels here.

This is in direct denial of the absolute equality of man in God's eyes that is explained in James chapter 2 and the words of ALL works of John the Revelator.

Paul unifies all mankind as equally condemned under sins power in Galatians 3 and explains that mankind is only freed by Jesus who, again, is the savior of the "Kosmos". (Greek in John 3 for world)

By stating that God shows favoritism, you have now made God a liar and Hypocrite.. God is subject to His own decrees. Jesus came to prove this and to prove God's Love, as well as to prove God's superior justice that grows from the Devine nature of Humility, Love and Grace.

Only God is good, and thus by Paul, all men are equal in their need for salvation.

The only way to fall into the hands of The Living God in a dreadful way would be to tread on Love in reference to human beings made in God's image. "James 3 and 1 John 4, as well as 1 Corinthians 12 and 13 and John 15"

In James 2, It is undeniable that the cloths of the men described are references to outward appearance of sinfulness. It is even more undeniable that the courts are references to the judgment of the Sanhedrin and the High Priest's of men and their fellow judges that use Moses to condemn with. This is a picture of Jesus being dragged into court and being falsely condemned.

James 2

The Sin of Favoritism

My brothers, do not show favoritism as you hold on to the faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ. 2*For example, a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and a poor man dressed in dirty clothes also comes in. 3*If you look with favor on the man wearing the fine clothes and say, “Sit here in a good place,” and yet you say to the poor man, “Stand over there,” or, “Sit here on the floor by my footstool,” 4*haven’t you discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

5*Listen, my dear brothers: Didn’t God choose the poor in this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that He has promised to those who love Him? 6*Yet you dishonored that poor man. Don’t the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? 7*Don’t they blaspheme the noble name that was pronounced over you at your baptism?

8*Indeed, if you keep the royal law prescribed in the Scripture, Love your neighbor as yourself, you are doing well. 9*But if you show favoritism, you commit sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10*For whoever keeps the entire law, yet fails in one point, is guilty of breaking it all. 11*For He who said, Do not commit adultery, also said, Do not murder. So if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you are a lawbreaker.

12*Speak and act as those who will be judged by the law of freedom.13*For judgment is without mercy to the one who hasn’t shown mercy.Mercy triumphs over judgment.



This is not Universalism. I understand what I have written and know children of God that Jesus (God) Loves will be destroyed by their transgression of Love. Matthew 25:31-46



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[Nameless.In.Grace]

Because you are all over the "map" with your pronouncements and explanations. You are a mystery boxed in an enigma.

Are you yoked to a brick and mortar building and do you embrace the doctrines there?


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[Cross Reference]

Are you yoked to a brick and mortar building and do you embrace the doctrines there?

No and that is why I can say to you what I wrote.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

No and that is why I can say to you what I wrote.

I, as well, and that is why I can write to you as I write.

Common ground! [emoji106]

Digital extension of my hand to you for a firm brotherly handshake. [emoji846]

Now do you understand why I respond with this?

1 Peter 2 (HCSB)

So rid yourselves of all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all slander. 2 Like newborn infants, desire the pure spiritual milk, so that you may grow by it for your salvation, 3 since you have tasted that the Lord is good. 4 Coming to Him, a living stone—rejected by men but chosen and valuable to God— 5 you yourselves, as living stones, are being built into a spiritual house for a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For it is contained in Scripture:

Look! I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and honored cornerstone,
and the one who believes in Him
will never be put to shame!
7 So honor will come to you who believe, but for the unbelieving,

The stone that the builders rejected—
this One has become the cornerstone,
8 and

A stone to stumble over,
and a rock to trip over.
They stumble because they disobey the message; they were destined for this.

9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood,
a holy nation,[n] a people for His possession,
so that you may proclaim the praises
of the One who called you out of darkness
into His marvelous light.
10 Once you were not a people,
but now you are God’s people;
you had not received mercy,
but now you have received mercy.
A Call to Good Works
11 Dear friends, I urge you as strangers and temporary residents to abstain from fleshly desires that war against you. 12 Conduct yourselves honorably among the Gentiles, so that in a case where they speak against you as those who do what is evil, they will, by observing your good works, glorify God on the day of visitation.

13 Submit to every human authority because of the Lord, whether to the Emperor as the supreme authority 14 or to governors as those sent out by him to punish those who do what is evil and to praise those who do what is good. 15 For it is God’s will that you silence the ignorance of foolish people by doing good. 16 As God’s slaves, live as free people, but don’t use your freedom as a way to conceal evil. 17 Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the Emperor.

Submission of Slaves to Masters

18 Household slaves, submit with all fear to your masters, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel. 19 For it brings favor if, mindful of God’s will, someone endures grief from suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is there if you sin and are punished, and you endure it? But when you do what is good and suffer, if you endure it, this brings favor with God.


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