Sonnet
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I'm not following you TB.
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-reprobation&p=4776856&viewfull=1#post4776856
Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation
- Thread starter Sonnet
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I'm not following you TB.
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-reprobation&p=4776856&viewfull=1#post4776856
Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation
Cross Reference, Sonnet,
The foundation is simple. The Agustine/Calvinist Doctrine of Reprobation leads people to believe in an inequality of God's Love. (Favoritism, so to speak). This is the heart of the negativity. That is the dragon's heart, so to speak, that we are pursuing. Do you agree?
Love is the highest principle of God. Do you agree with this?
Don't jump all over me. We are all here because we Love God. Please bear with me and know, I'm not out to get anyone. I'm not here to pull any stunts. I just want to glorify Jesus, to the glory of the Father and gratitude to the Holy Spirit of Love, in Christ.
I'm going somewhere with this, but if I go too fast, or say too much, you seem to miss my point. Thus, this is a one or two question at a time process. I will lead somewhere strong, I promise.
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
Cross Reference, Sonnet,
The foundation is simple. The Agustine/Calvinist Doctrine of Reprobation leads people to believe in an inequality of God's Love. (Favoritism, so to speak). This is the heart of the negativity. That is the dragon's heart, so to speak, that we are pursuing. Do you agree?
Love is the highest principle of God. Do you agree with this?
Don't jump all over me. We are all here because we Love God. Please bear with me and know, I'm not out to get anyone. I'm not here to pull any stunts. I just want to glorify Jesus, to the glory of the Father and gratitude to the Holy Spirit of Love, in Christ.
I'm going somewhere with this, but if I go too fast, or say too much, you seem to miss my point. Thus, this is a one or two question at a time process. I will lead somewhere strong, I promise.
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
Sonnet
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Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation
Excellent, [emoji846]
So could we officially say that this doctrine is actually smearing the Character of God?
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
Yes
Indeed - God showed his love - dying for the ungodly.
Ok.
Excellent, [emoji846]
So could we officially say that this doctrine is actually smearing the Character of God?
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Sonnet
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I've always considered such as smearing the Character of God.
Rosenritter
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It sounds as if you propose that God created people for no other purpose than to do wrong. Why would God be wrathful at someone for doing wrong if they are doing exactly what they were designed (and have no other option) to do?
If I write a computer program and I purposely divide by zero at one point to make the program crash, I do not become wrathful at it when it crashes. If I did that would be taken as a sign of insanity. But perhaps my analogy is flawed. I could purchase a car and then blow it up for special effects, or as a warning for people not to mess with me because I'll blow up their cars too. But within the Calvinist model, the "elect" are saved whether they want to be or not, and nothing they can do can change that. So there is no need for "vessels of wrath" to serve as a warning or to make his power known.
The only way that "vessels of wrath" have any meaning or purpose is if people can learn by seeing their example. And that learning is completely unnecessary within the Calvinist model (at least as I understand it.) For a God that did not want to destroy Nineveh, that would open his arms and accept Jerusalem but they would not, who is willing that all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth, who stands in that last Great day and calls for all to come to him that thirst, it doesn't seem like an uncaring Creator. If he has declared some to serve as "vessels of wrath" there must be a reason and a purpose.
It is probably obvious by now that I am not of Calvinist persuasion, but hopefully I have explained my question.
Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation
So this is our irrefutable anchor point and foundation.
Entire passages of scripture build a forensic pattern of the Character of God. Do you agree?
Wouldn't we be chasing our tails if we go into doctrines about mankind and 1 verse rebuttals?
Shouldn't we now shift to the citing of entire passages of scripture, in full context, that reveal God to be a God of Love, that Loves all humanity equally?
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
So this is our irrefutable anchor point and foundation.
Entire passages of scripture build a forensic pattern of the Character of God. Do you agree?
Wouldn't we be chasing our tails if we go into doctrines about mankind and 1 verse rebuttals?
Shouldn't we now shift to the citing of entire passages of scripture, in full context, that reveal God to be a God of Love, that Loves all humanity equally?
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
Is God subject to His own Laws and Scriptural Guidelines of morality?
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
Sonnet
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Sonnet
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Indeed, but we may need to deal with the various troubling OT scriptures.
Sonnet
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If you had an explicit verse that had God predetermining that they would be evil then you'd have a point (and also you'd have millions turning away in disgust) - but you haven't.
Sonnet
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We both don't believe in the John Calvin Gospel - that's what it says.
you don't believe in the biblical source Calvin uses.
you dont want us to believe at all.
Sonnet
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you don't believe in the biblical source Calvin uses.
you dont want us to believe at all.
This doesn't represent my view...I'm totally opposed ton antinomianism.
Sonnet
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Are we born guilty of sin and unable to not sin - and are some of these left in such a condition (ie reprobated)?
How can it be said that such folk have any option whatsoever to extricate themselves from their apparent inevitable fate? And how can it be argued that God isn't discriminatory?
Cross Reference
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Cross Reference
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Indeed! We know God will have a people unto Him. He is looking for them. How else can He have them if He does not choose them? How eles can he select them unless selection is from man having a freewill to order up his own life pleasing the God . . that he live with the hope??