Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

Ask Mr. Religion

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Yes.

Nowhere does God say He saves unbelievers.


That scripture does not say that.


You can't get away from this scripture,

Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?

I am beginning to believe there are some emotional and mental issues behind this single-minded obstinacy you are exhibiting. Let's not communicate with one another from now on.

AMR
 

God's Truth

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I am beginning to believe there are some emotional and mental issues behind this single-minded obstinacy you are exhibiting. Let's not communicate with one another from now on.

AMR

You preach doctrines of demons, just as the scriptures say, for that is where false doctrines come from.

You do not have the truth, all Satan has left you with is to insult me and lie.

What else do you got since you do not have truth?
 

Nameless.In.Grace

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There is no scripture ANYWHERE in the Bible that says God saves UNBELIEVERS.
He justifies the ungodly. This could also be unbelievers. He went to those that did not know Him. (Know Him, Believe in Him). The parable of the sheep and the goats , coupled with the epistles of John are illuminating on this matter.

It ain't over till the Son of God Sings!

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TulipBee

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I am beginning to believe there are some emotional and mental issues behind this single-minded obstinacy you are exhibiting. Let's not communicate with one another from now on.

AMR
.... you can't explain THAT to a lost person ....
...... it's like explaing the color RED to a blind person ...

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Sonnet

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McMahan rightly notes that being born again implies knowledge, assent, and trust, the three components of true faith.

Ok.

All mankind fell in Adam, just as if we were really there with him. Salvation is not obligatory upon God. That God saves even one person should have us all praising Him, for no one deserves His mercy.

Indeed, salvation isn't obligatory upon God - nevertheless God chose to provide for all as John 3:14-16 clearly states.

You are confusing God’s foreknowledge with causation. God's decree does not take away man's liberty, rather it is His decree that establishes said liberty. In the fall Adam freely exercised the natural inclinations of his will.

I'm not following this.

What you fail to understand is that the passage (2 Corinthians 5:18-21) is not a teleprompter text. The “us” in these and all passages similarly, are the believing ones. Parse it out.
“Now then, we (believing ministers) are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us (believing ministers): we (believing ministers) implore you (the unreconciled, the non-believer) on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us (believing ministers), that we (believing ministers) might become the righteousness of God in Him.”​

An auditor of the words, "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God," is free to believe that 'us' is inclusive. Nothing in the text precludes such an understanding so it's strange that you attempt to do so.

In other words, the sum and substance of the Gospel proclaims that Our Lord’s sacrifice for all believers is available to any non-believer that wants to be reconciled to God, ofr all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved and not lost to Him.

Why fail to mention to them that if (as you believe) some of them are of the non-elect then they are without any recourse?

So when the quote agrees with your presupposition in part, but not everywhere, it is sufficient to use it as a lever to interpret subsequent Scripture? :AMR: Who or where is the affirmation you speak about in 1 Timothy?

I'm not following your meaning here. The link is in the text.

Try to imagine vividly what Nicodemus is hearing. Jesus is claiming the title of the Son of Man, the judgment title that the Ancient of Days gives him to judge and with sovereign dominion and power over all nations, tribes and people. The mere act of lifting up the Son of Man in public view does not save the world. Only those who believe are saved. Only those who have the capacity of believing can be saved. And they must, will, look to the Son of Man lifted up and believe on him to have everlasting life.

This view of yours does not correlate with the import of the analogy. The bronze snake was lifted up for all those that were bitten by a snake - and all could look and be cured. Since all without exception are in need of a cure (source pointing to the target of an analogy), then all have been provided for.

Yes, one must hear. The issue of regeneration is the giving of ears to hear. ;)

Judas was one of those that heard and was given knowledge. It would seem that Isaiah 6:9-10 does not imply what Dordt thought it did.

Lydia was a worshipper in the sense of ritualism, as were and are all non-regenerated Jews.

You know for sure that she was unregenerate?

The article in question is not a thorough treatment of every point of doctrine. If you want such a treatment, read and study this:
https://www.biblicaltraining.org/library/systematic-theology-louis-berkhof

Would prefer a specific point to respond to.

No one disputes the passage contains the substance of the Gospel. It was a summary offered up by believers to an audience of predominantly believers. So, a pastor behind the pulpit, with members present in the pews may say, speaking in the large, that Our Lord died for us. My issue has always been to say to unbeliever Bob in a conversation about that Gospel, “Bob, Jesus Christ died for you” is to speak infelicitously at best, erroneously at worst, as I do not know the secret will of God for Bob. I am happy and commanded to tell Bob that if he will call upon the name of the Lord he will be saved and never lost to the Lord.

Since unbelievers may be in the audience (which you acknowledge) then they will de facto be told that Christ died for them.

To say or imply more than that about Bob specifically is to claim to know more than we have warrant to know (Deut. 29:29).

I would say that you do in fact claim more than 'we have warrant to know' by claiming limited atonement and election/reprobation. It is not found in scripture. On the contrary, that Christ died for all is emphatic and explicit.

1 John 2:2, John 1:29, John 3:14-16, Hebrews 2:9, 1 Timothy 2:4-6, Titus 2:11
 

God's Truth

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He justifies the ungodly. This could also be unbelievers.

No way, you cannot change ungodly to mean unbelievers.

The ungodly are the Gentiles, because they were without God in the world.

Ephesians 2:12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

He went to those that did not know Him. (Know Him, Believe in Him).

If they did not believe they did not get saved.

The parable of the sheep and the goats , coupled with the epistles of John are illuminating on this matter.

It ain't over till the Son of God Sings!

I do not get what you are saying.
 

Cross Reference

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Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion


McMahan rightly notes that being born again implies knowledge, assent, and trust, the three components of true faith.

Please explain why you accept that notion as scriptural and not mere attempt at wording to death another convoluted idea?
 

Cross Reference

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All mankind fell in Adam, just as if we were really there with him. Salvation is not obligatory upon God. That God saves even one person should have us all praising Him, for no one deserves His mercy.. . .

Better explained: Union with God was no longer possible. God would have to speak with man from the 'outside' himself. Adam had caused All mankind to be seperated eternally from God, His indwelling in man being no longer possible. Enter man's slaverly to the law of his flesh for the next 4K years.

Though God is not to blame, "in the fullness of time", He took on the responsibility for Adam's failure by sending Jesus to rectify the situation.
 

Sonnet

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Please explain why you accept that notion as scriptural and not mere attempt at wording to death another convoluted idea?

Why do you take issue here CF? Is it possible you are reading more into it than need be? Knowledge, assent and trust are required aren't they? Isn't your issue, rather, in how this comes about for Calvinists?
 

Cross Reference

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Why do you take issue here CF? Is it possible you are reading more into it than need be? Knowledge, assent and trust are required aren't they? Isn't your issue, rather, in how this comes about for Calvinists?
What knowledge? What does assent mean? And trust what? Those words can mean anything and do at the discretion if their professors. . . with agenda. Lets not assume and agree because they are words of piety.
 

Cross Reference

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The new birth from above is by revelation as Jesus spoke of it to Nicodemus, i.e., by the Holy Spirit that creates within one a hunger for union IN Him Who is the Author of all three parts, "Knowledge, Assent, and Trust". In that is the "components of True faith" made perfect. . .they work as One.
 

Cross Reference

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Perhaps AMR will clarify.

Can I assume you are glutton for punishment? Who can understand such convoluted replies?

If indeed God decrees liberty, which is only "in Christ" and complete, and decrees can't be reversed, even by God, how is it a freeman "in Christ" and complete, can apostatize? I know the correct answer and I believe you do as well which serves to make his understanding baffling!
 

Sonnet

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Can I assume you are glutton for punishment? Who can understand such convoluted replies?

If indeed God decrees liberty, which is only "in Christ" and complete, and decrees can't be reversed, even by God, how is it a freeman "in Christ" and complete, can apostatize? I know the correct answer and I believe you do as well which serves to make his understanding baffling!

Hebrews 6 and 10 are pretty clear that one can fall away.
 

Cross Reference

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AMR wrote:

"Only those who have the capacity of believing can be saved. And they must, will, look to the Son of Man lifted up and believe on him to have everlasting life."

That is just so much "Decreeism"-"Hi-Calvinism" that you attempt to hide by wording people to death with unsupportable dogma.

1. There is no gift of faith to be had for salvation.

2. Man is Not totally depraved as you have been persuaded to believe.

3. God desires all men to be saved. . . . . . That is the gospel truth.

4. Redemption as the foundation is the way upward when the testimony of Jesus Christ is 'received' to one's heart.
 

TulipBee

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That is just so much "Decreeism"-"Hi-Calvinism" that you attempt to hide by wording people to death with unsupportable dogma.

1. There is no gift of faith to be had for salvation.

2. Man is Not totally depraved as you have been persuaded to believe.

3. God desires all men to be saved. . . . . . That is the gospel truth.

4. Redemption as the foundation is the way upward when the testimony of Jesus Christ is 'received' to one's heart.
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