Rapid Adaptation

[Stripe]

So far no creationist has ever been able to provide a testable defiinition of "kind." "Prediction: Stipe will never produce a testable definition of "kind", because there isn't one.

:darwinsm:

This is why evolutionists are mocked.

 

[Alate_One]

:darwinsm:

This is why evolutionists are mocked.

Because laughing at someone and refusing to provide a testable model magically makes you right.

Your level of delusion seems to only be increasing.

 

[Stripe]

Because laughing at someone and refusing to provide a testable model magically makes you right.Your level of delusion seems to only be increasing.

Nope. Having provided a definition makes me justified in laughing at you for asking for a "testable" definition.

:mock: Evolutionists.

 

[Stripe]

I want a testable ice cream.

:darwinsm:

 

[Alate_One]

Nope. Having provided a definition makes me justified in laughing at you for asking for a "testable" definition.

:mock: Evolutionists.

So much for creationists and the scientific method. 6days insists creationists do that too.

Shall we look at the nature of science again and check?

How do we distinguish science from non-science?

SCIENCE IDENTIFICATION CRITERIA or THE CHARACTERISTICS OF SCIENCE

Six Criteria of Science: Consistent, Observable, Natural, Predictable, Testable, and Tentative. The sequence is not important, but the acronym "CONPTT" makes a good long term memory hook.

1. Consistency: The results of repeated observations and/or experiments concerning a naturally occurring event (phenomenon) are reasonably the same when performed and repeated by competent investigators. The event is also free from self-contradiction: it is consistent in its applications. The weight of the evidence is also compatible with well established observations and limits.

2. Observability: The event under study, or evidence of the occurrence of the event, can be observed and explained. The observations are limited to the basic human senses or to extensions of the senses by such things as electron microscopes, Geiger counters, etc. If the phenomenon cannot be reproduced through controlled conditions, natural evidence of the event's occurrence must be available for investigation. Note this is not "someone had to be there", but we must be able to observe natural evidence left behind by an event.

3. Natural: A natural cause (mechanism) must be used to explain why or how the naturally occurring event happens. Scientists may not use supernatural explanations as to why or how naturally occurring events happen because reference to the supernatural is outside of the realm of science. Scientists cannot conduct controlled experiments in which they have designed the intervention of a supreme being into the test.

4. Predictability: The natural cause (mechanism) of the naturally occurring event can be used to make specific predictions. Each prediction can be tested to determine if the prediction is true of false.

5. Testability: The natural cause (mechanism) of the naturally occurring event must be testable through the processes of science, controlled experimentation being essential. Reference to supernatural events or causes are not relevant tests. Many scientific phenomena cannot be directly replicated in the lab, but other types of tests can be used to study these kinds of phenomena (e.x. volcanoes, glaciers, migration patterns etc.)

6. Tentativeness: Scientific theories are subject to revision and correction, even to the point of the theory being proven wrong. Scientific theories have been modified and will continue to be modified to consistently explain observations of naturally occurring events.

The above lesson is from ENSI web - I use it in my base level intro science courses. My additional comments in italics.

Probably the characteristic that confuses Christians the most is the last, Tentative. Science is not truth with a capital T. It operates on probabilities, not absolute certainty. Even more importantly, scientific understanding can change. That doesn't make science bad, it's simply the only way we humans have invented to discover how the natural world works. Science doesn't change randomly either, our knowledge gets better over time as the result of more and more sophisticated tests.

That said we'll never get to 100% proof, but we can get to very high certainty. Some scientific ideas are more certain than others, these are represented by the terms hypothesis and theory, with theory being the highest certainty. But we should, when looking at older science, expect to see ideas that ultimately turned out to be wrong. That's a normal part of the process of science. Those wrong ideas are rejected as science progresses.

 

[Jose Fly]

Nope.....You are slightly misrepresenting Stripe.

Nope. He very specifically said "No population has ever evolved" and he also said speciation does not happen at all, ever.

You posted a paper describing not just the evolution of a population, but its speciation as well. Simply put, you proved Stripe wrong. Not only that, but now Everready also says there can be no evolution.

He agrees that organisms can rapidly change as the articles in the OP says.

The paper you posted says they evolved and rapidly speciated, both of which Stripe and Everready insist don't happen.

This fits the Biblical model of an intelligent Creator programming creatures to survive and adapt in various environments.

Which Biblical model? Obviously Stripe and Everready's Biblical model says populations never evolve nor do they speciate. So obviously you posting a paper that describes populations evolving and speciating conflicts with their Biblical model.

Maybe you guys should huddle and get back to us when you figure out just what this "Biblical model" is, :thumb:

What Stripe, myself and other creationist reject is how evolutionists such as yourself use malleable pliable terms to try sell evolutionism.
The birds adapted to their environment... rapidly. That is observational science. That fits with the Biblical creationist model.

I know you're going to try and dishonestly wiggle out of this one, but it's too late.

 

[6days]

Hey, I know What!!

Let's throw creationists out of our clubs and our schools, tell lies about the Bible and God, refuse to let creationists publish in any of our papers and refuse funding to any of them telling the public that only that which happens naturally can be considered science.

Then, after 50 years, let's challenge them to show what they have contributed lately. The general public is so naive they will assume we have a good point.

Ha ha - that outta do it!

Ha... That fairly accurately describes what they want, to silence scientists who are unbelievers of evolutionism. But fortunately there is a growing body of scientists (from only only two scientists, 50 years ago) who acknowledge science supports the Bible.... and science is a form of worship.
EX.
Henry Schaefer (Professor of Chemistry and director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the University of Georgia) "The significance and joy in my science comes in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little corner of God's plan."

Some time back someone here made a comment doubting modern day scientists adhere to Biblical creation..... I posted this:
Ok... To start, realize that although Biblical creationist scientists are a small percentage...It still is a growing number that likely is in the tens of thousands.

There are different lists... different organizations...Some other languages. For example South Korea has a fairly healthy population of scientists who believe in Biblical creation /young earth. Also, keep in mind that there are many who don't want their names on such lists for fear of reprisal from employers, or other reasons.
Here is one such list from Creation Ministries...
BIBLICAL CREATIONISTS
Dr John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
Dr Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of MRI technology
Dr E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics
Dr James Allan, Genetics
Dr John Ashton, Chemistry, Food technology
Dr Steve Austin, Geology
Dr S.E. Aw, Biochemistry
Dr Thomas Barnes, Physics
Dr Geoff Barnard, Immunology
Dr Don Batten, Plant physiology
Dr Donald Baumann, Solid State Physics, Professor of Biology and Chemistry, Cedarville University
Dr Paul Ackerman, PhD, Assistant Professor of Psychology, Wichita State University.
Dr Élizabeth Beauchesne, Ph.D., Biomedical Sciences.
Dr Jerry Bergman, Psychology
Dr Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
Dr Raymond G. Bohlin, Biology
Dr Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
Dr Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry
Dr David Boylan, Chemical Engineering
Dr Bernard Brandstater, Anesthesiology
Prof. Stuart Burgess, Engineering and Biomimetics, Professor of Design & Nature, Head of Department, Mechanical Engineering, University of Bristol (UK)
Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
Dr Ben Carson, Professor and chief of pediatric neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins University. He has 51 honorary doctorates, including from Yale and Columbia Universities.
Dr Robert W. Carter, Marine Biology
Dr David Catchpoole, Plant Physiology (read his story)
Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
Dr Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
Dr Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
Dr Xidong Chen, Solid State Physics, Assistant Professor of Physics, Cedarville University
Dr Donald Chittick, Physical Chemistry
Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
Dr John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering
Dr Harold Coffin, Paleontology
Dr Bob Compton, DVM, PhD
Dr Ken Cumming, Biology
Dr Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
Dr Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemistry
Dr Chris Darnbrough, Biochemistry
Dr Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
Dr Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
Dr Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
Dr David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
Dr Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics
Dr Geoff Downes, Plant Physiology
Dr Ted Driggers, Operations research
Robert H. Eckel, Medical Research (more than 80 research papers)
Dr André Eggen, Genetics
Dr Leroy Eimers, Atmospheric Science, Professor of Physics and Mathematics, Cedarville University
Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy
Dr Dennis Flentge, Physical Chemistry, Professor of Chemistry and Chair of the Department of Science and Mathematics, Cedarville University
Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry
Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
Dr Kenneth W. Funk, Organic Chemistry; biologically active peptide synthesis.
Dr Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science
Dr Roger G. Gallop, P.G., Geology
Dr Robert Gentry, Physics
Dr Maciej Giertych, Genetics
Dr Werner Gitt, Information Science
Dr Steven Gollmer, Atmospheric Science, Professor of Physics, Cedarville University
Dr D.B. Gower, Biochemistry
Dr Stephen Grocott, Industrial Chemistry
Dr Donald Hamann, Food Science
Dr Barry Harker, Philosophy
Dr Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physics, Electromagnetics
Dr John Hartnett, Physics and Cosmology
Dr Mark Harwood, Satellite Communications
Dr Joe Havel, Botanist, Silviculture, Ecophysiology
Dr George Hawke, Environmental Science
Dr Steven Hayes, Nuclear Science
Dr Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botany
Dr Larry Helmick, Organic Chemistry, Professor of Chemistry, Cedarville University
Dr Harold R. Henry, Engineering
Dr Dewey Hodges, Professor of Eerospace Engineering
Dr Joseph Henson, Entomology
Dr Jonathan Henry, Chemical Engineering, Astronomy
Dr Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy
Dr Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacology
Dr Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science
Dr Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
Dr George F. Howe, Botany
Dr Neil Huber, Physical Anthropology
Dr Russell Humphreys, Physics
Dr James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
Dr G. Charles Jackson, Science Education
Evan Jamieson, Hydrometallurgy
George T. Javor, Biochemistry
Dr Pierre Jerlström, Molecular Biology
Dr Arthur Jones, Biology
Dr Raymond Jones, Agricultural Science
Dr Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logic, Formal Logic
Dr Dean Kenyon, Biology
Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry
Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science
Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering
Dr David King, Astronomy.
Dr John W. Klotz, Biology
Dr Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
Dr Felix Konotey-Ahulu, Physician, leading expert on sickle-cell anemia
Dr Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
Dr John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry
Dr Johan Kruger, Zoology
Dr Wolfgang Kuhn, biology researcher and lecturer
Dr Heather Kuruvilla, Plant Physiology, Senior Professor of Biology, Cedarville University
Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics
Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology
Dr Matti Leisola, Biochemistry (esp. of enzymes), D.Sc. in biotechnology, Dean, Faculty of Chemical and Materials Sciences, Aalta University, Finland
Dr John G. Leslie, biochemistry, molecular biology, medicine, biblical archaeology
Prof. Lane P. Lester, Biology, Genetics
Dr Jean Lightner, Agriculture, Veterinary science
Dr Peter Line, Neuroscience
Dr Jason Lisle, Astrophysics
Dr Raúl E López, Meteorology
Dr Alan Love, Chemistry
Dr Gloria Luciani-Torres, Molecular Oncology Researcher (Cancer Biology)
Dr Heinz Lycklama, Nuclear physics and Information Technology
Dr Ian Macreadie, Molecular Biology and Microbiology
Dr John Marcus, Molecular Biology
Dr George Marshall, Opthalmology researcher
Dr James Mason, Nuclear physics
Dr Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemistry
Dr Mark McClain, Inorganic Chemistry, Associate Professor of Chemistry, Cedarville University
Dr John McEwan, Organic Chemistry
Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics
Dr David Menton, Anatomy
Dr Angela Meyer, Plant Physiology
Dr John Meyer, Physiology
Dr Victor Meyer, Entomology, environmental science
Dr Douglas Miller, Professor of Chemistry, Cedarville University
Dr Robert T. Mitchell, Internal Medicine (specialist)
Dr Colin W. Mitchell, Geography
Dr Gina Mohammed, Plant physiology
Dr John N. Moore, Science Education
Dr John D. Morris, Geology
Dr Len Morris, Physiology
Dr Graeme Mortimer, Geology
Dr Stanley A. Mumma, Architectural Engineering
Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering
Dr Eric Norman, Biomedical science
Dr David Oderberg, Philosophy
Professor Douglas Oliver, Professor of Biology
Prof. John Oller, Linguistics
Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology
Dr Charles Pallaghy, Botany
Dr Gary E. Parker, Biology, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology)
Dr Terry Phipps, Professor of Biology, Cedarville University
Dr Jules H. Poirier, Aeronautics, Electronics
Dr Georgia Purdom, Molecular Genetics
Dr Graeme Quick, Engineering, former Principle Research Scientist with CSIRO (Australia)
Dr Dan Reynolds, Organic Chemistry
Dr Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
Dr David Rodda, PhD, Population Genetics
Dr David Rosevear, Chemistry
Dr Marcus Ross, Paleontology
Dr Ariel A. Roth, Biology
Dr Craig Russell, Soil science, plant nutrition, ecology
Dr Ronald G. Samec, Astronomy
Dr John Sanford, Plant science / genetics
Dr Jonathan D. Sarfati, Physical chemistry / spectroscopy
Dr Alicia (Lisa) Schaffner, Associate Professor of Biology, Cedarville University
Dr Joachim Scheven Paleontology
Dr Ian Scott, Education
Dr Saami Shaibani, Forensic Physics
Dr Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry
Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science
Dr Mikhail Shulgin, Physics
Dr Emil Silvestru, Geology/karstology
Dr Roger Simpson, Engineering
Dr Horace D. (‘Skip’) Skipper, Professor Emeritus Soil microbiology, College of Agriculture, Forestry and Life Sciences, Clemson University, SC, USA
Dr Harold Slusher, Geophysics
Dr E. Norbert Smith, Zoology
Dr Andrew Snelling, Geology
Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science
Dr Timothy G. Standish, Biology
Prof. James Stark, Assistant Professor of Science Education
Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer
Dr Esther Su, Biochemistry
Dr Dennis Sullivan, Biology, surgery, chemistry, Professor of Biology, Cedarville University
Dr Charles Taylor, Linguistics
Dr Stephen Taylor, Electrical Engineering
Dr Larry Thaete, Molecular and Cellular Biology and Pathobiology
Dr Ker C. Thomson, Geophysics
Dr Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
Dr Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
Dr S.H. ‘Wally’ Tow (Tow Siang Hwa), retired chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the University of Singapore
Dr Royal Truman, Organic Chemistry
Dr Gerald Van Dyke, Ph.D. and Professor Emeritus in Botany, North Carolina State University
Dr Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science
Prof. Walter Veith, Zoology
Dr Joachim Vetter, Biology
Dr Tas Walker, Mechanical Engineering and Geology
Dr Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineering
Dr Keith Wanser, Physics
Dr Noel Weeks, Ancient Near-East History (also has B.Sc. in Zoology)
Dr A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics
Dr John Whitmore, Geology/Paleontology
Dr Kurt Wise, Paleontology
Dr Bryant Wood, Archaeology
Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics
Dr Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
Dr Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
Dr Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
Dr Patrick Young, Chemistry and Materials Science
Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography
Dr Daiqing Yuan, Theoretical Physics
Dr Henry Zuill, Biology

 

[Jose Fly]

The evidence shows rapid diversification of organisms in response to their environments; eliminating any possibility that evolution is in play.

6days proved you wrong by posting a paper describing populations rapidly evolving and speciating.

 

[6days]

I want a testable ice cream.

:darwinsm:

:the_wave: YES!

 

[6days]

6days proved you wrong by posting a paper describing populations rapidly evolving and speciating.

You might be misrepresenting Stripes position. I thought he agreed with the OP..... Rapid adaptation supports the Biblical model.

 

[Jose Fly]

And let's not forget that according to other Christians here at ToL, the "Biblical model" also dictates a non-moving earth that is orbited by the rest of the universe.

It seems you creationists have some extremely disparate versions of this model. Questions like...

Do populations evolve?

Does speciation happen?

Does the earth move?

Is the earth orbited by the rest of the universe?

...are very foundational and one would think extremely important to figure out before one could claim there is such a thing as "a Biblical model".

 

[Jose Fly]

You might be misrepresenting Stripes position.

Nope, I quoted him directly saying that no population evolves ever and speciation never happens.

I thought he agreed with the OP..... Rapid adaptation supports the Biblical model.

Your OP cites a paper describing populations evolving and speciating. Stripe says neither of those can happen in the Biblical model. So either the OP is wrong or Stripe is. Take your pick. And don't forget, Everready also says there is no evolution.

 

[Clete]

Appeal to authority much?

I've not read the entire thread and so forgive me if this has already been addressed but I had to just point out that when you make a claim such as, "Creationist do not use the scientific method." and then someone responds to that claim by presenting counter examples of creationists who undeniably do use the scientific method, that's not at all what making an appeal to authority is.

If anything it was you who used the appeal to authority fallacy by suggesting that because one well known creationist organization can be quoted as having said something unscientific that the quoted organization must therefore speak for and represent the whole population of creationists everywhere. It actually would more accurately fit the hasty generalization fallacy which is fitting since the theory of evolution is itself, at its foundation, one gargantuan hasty generalization fallacy.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Alate_One]

Some time back someone here made a comment doubting modern day scientists adhere to Biblical creation..... I posted this:
Ok... To start, realize that although Biblical creationist scientists are a small percentage...It still is a growing number that likely is in the tens of thousands.

Likely? *chuckle* I very much doubt you have anything close to that many. In any case numbers really have no meaning. But if you're only impressed by numbers, here's project Steve.

These are people (and only those with PhDs named Steve or derivatives of the name) that sign this statement:

Evolution is a vital, well-supported, unifying principle of the biological sciences, and the scientific evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of the idea that all living things share a common ancestry. Although there are legitimate scientific debates about the patterns and processes of evolution, there is no serious scientific doubt that evolution occurred or that natural selection is a major mechanism of evolution. It is scientifically inappropriate and pedagogically irresponsible for creationist pseudoscience, including but not limited to "intelligent design," to be introduced into the science curricula of the public schools.

In the interests of sanity I only went to letter -edit- Letter A since apparently C was too long -edit- There's a total of 1367 Steves as of May 2015.

If you want the full list . . . go here.

Meet the Steves As of May 6, 2015, 1367 Steves have signed the statement. Will you be the next Steve? Stephen T. Abedon Associate Professor of Microbiology, Ohio State University Ph.D., Microbiology, University of Arizona Creator of The Bacteriophage Ecology Group, Home of Phage Ecology and Evolutionary Biology (www.phage.org) Steve Abel****** Postdoctoral Associate, Department of Chemical Engineering, Laboratory for Computational Immunology, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Ph.D., Chemical Engineering, Stanford University Stephan Abermann******* Ph.D., Electrical Engineering and Telecommunication, Technical University of Vienna Stefan Achleitner******* Assistant Professor, Unit of Hydraulic Engineering, University of Innsbruck Ph.D., Environmental Engineering, University of Innsbruck Steven G. Ackleson**** Oceanographer, Office of Naval Research Ph.D., Marine Studies, University of Delaware Stephen A. Adam**** Associate Professor, Department of Cell and Molecular Biology, Feinberg School of Medicine, Northwestern University Ph.D., Biochemistry, Molecular, and Cell Biology, Northwestern University Steve Adams***** † Vice President, Curl Inc. Ph.D., Astrophysics, University College London Steven Reid Adams****** Assistant Professor, Department of Biology, University of Central Arkansas Ph.D., Zoology, Southern Illinois University Stephen R. Addison* Associate Professor of Physics, University of Central Arkansas Ph.D., Physics, University of Mississippi Stephen L. Adler Albert Einstein Professor, School of Natural Sciences, Institute for Advanced Study Ph.D., Physics, Princeton University Member, National Academy of Sciences Steve Adolph****** Professor of Biology, Harvey Mudd College Ph.D., Zoology, University of Washington Steven K. Akiyama***** Scientist, Laboratory of Molecular Carcinogenesis, National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, National Institutes of Health Ph.D., Chemistry, Cornell University Stephen B. Aley Professor of Biological Sciences, Associate Dean, University of Texas, El Paso Ph.D., Biology, Rockefeller University Stéphanie Allassonnière******* Professeur chargée de cours, Center of Applied Mathematics, Ecole Polytechnique Ph.D., Mathematics, Université Paris–XIII Stephen C. Alley* Senior Scientist, Seattle Genetics, Inc. Ph.D., Chemistry, University of Washington Steve Allison****** Staff scientist, Photonics Group, Oak Ridge National Laboratory Ph.D., Engineering Physics, University of Virginia Steven D. Allison****** Assistant Professor, Departments of Ecology & Evolutionary Biology and Earth System Science, University of California, Irvine Ph.D., Biological Sciences, Stanford University Steven I. Altchuler* Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Mayo Clinic College of Medicine; Consultant in Psychiatry, Mayo Clinic Ph.D., Nutritional Biochemistry and Metabolism, Massachusetts Institute of Technology; M.D., Baylor College of Medicine Stephen S. Altus******* Senior Scientist, Jeppesen, a Boeing company Ph.D., Aeronautics & Astronautics, Stanford University Stephen D. Anderson******* Scientific Administrator/Editor, Pacific Northwest Diabetes Research Institute Ph.D., Biological Sciences, University of Southern California Scientific editor of over 500 primary research papers in peer-reviewed journals, e.g., Guan F, et al., "Specific glycosphingolipids mediate epithelial-to-mesenchymal transition of human and mouse epithelial cell lines," Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA (2009) 106(18): 7461-66. Stephen J. Anderson***** Commercial Officer, U.S. Export Assistance Center, Baltimore, U.S. Department of Commerce Ph.D., Political Science, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Stephen Robert Anderson Professor of Linguistics and Cognitive Science, Yale University Ph.D., Linguistics, Massachusetts Institute of Technology Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences Steven C. Anderson****** Emeritus Professor of Biology, University of the Pacific Ph.D., Biology, Stanford University Stephen Angel******* Professor of Chemistry, Washburn University Ph.D., Physical Chemistry, University of Colorado, Boulder Steven D. Anisman***** Cardiologist, Bennington Cardiology M.D., University of Vermont Diplomate, American Board of Internal Medicine; Member, American College of Physicians; Fellow, American College of Cardiology Stefan Ankirchner******* Professor of Mathematics, University of Bonn Ph.D., Mathematics, Humboldt University of Berlin Steven Anschel****** Director, Local Public Health Sales, Netsmart Technologies, Inc. Ph.D., Zoology, University of Maryland Steve J. Aplin***** Calorimeter Coordinator, HERA experiment H1, Deutsches Elektronen-Synchrotron Ph.D., Particle Physics, University of Portsmouth Stephen W. Arch L. N. Ruben Professor of Biology, Reed College Ph.D., Biology, University of Chicago Steve Archer**** Professor of Rangeland and Forest Resources, University of Arizona Ph.D., Rangeland Ecosystem Science, Colorado State University, Ft. Collins J. Steven Arnold* Medical Director, Intensive Care and Sleep Medicine, St. Mary's Hospital Medical Director, Respiratory Care and Sleep Medicine, Decatur Memorial Hospital M.D., Pritzker School of Medicine, University of Chicago Stevan J. Arnold Professor of Zoology, Oregon State University Ph.D., Zoology, University of Michigan Past President, Society for the Study of Evolution Steven E. Arnold***** Assistant Professor of Chemistry, Auburn University, Montgomery Ph.D., Chemistry, Louisiana State University Stephen M. Arthur**** Research Biologist, Alaska Department of Fish and Game Ph.D., Wildlife Biology, University of Maine Stephen T. Asma******* Professor of Philosophy and Interdisciplinary Humanities, Columbia College Chicago Ph.D., Philosophy, Southern Illinois University Carbondale Steven N. Austad Professor of Biological Sciences, University of Idaho Ph.D., Zoology?, Purdue University Author, Why We Age Stephen J. Aves****** Associate Professor of Molecular Biology, University of Exeter Ph.D., Biochemistry, University of Bristol Steve Avons****** Reader in Psychology, University of Essex Ph.D., Psychology, University of Stirling Stephen Azevedo* Deputy Division Leader, Electronics Engineering Technologies Division, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Ph.D., Electrical Engineering and Computing Science, University of California, Davis

Also . . .

"As of April 2012, the NCSE list had 1202 names, compared with 840 on the Discovery Institute list. If we count only those persons on these two lists who had a Ph.D. degree and/or professional position in a core field closely related to evolution (Anatomy, Anthropology, Biochemistry, Biology, Biophysics, Botany, Ecology, Entomology, Genetics, Geology, Geophysics, Microbiology, Neurophysiology, Paleontology, Physiology or Zoology), who thus are particularly well-qualified to make such a declaration, then 708 (58.9%) of the names on the NCSE list were so qualified, compared with only 258 (30.7%) of the Discovery Institute list, according to a detailed check performed by the present author."

 

[Stripe]

I've not read the entire thread and so forgive me if this has already been addressed but I had to just point out that when you make a claim such as, "Creationist do not use the scientific method." and then someone responds to that claim by presenting counter examples of creationists who undeniably do use the scientific method, that's not at all what making an appeal to authority is.

If anything it was you who used the appeal to authority fallacy by suggesting that because one well known creationist organization can be quoted as having said something unscientific that the quoted organization must therefore speak for and represent the whole population of creationists everywhere. It actually would more accurately fit the hasty generalization fallacy which is fitting since the theory of evolution is itself, at its foundation, one gargantuan hasty generalization fallacy.

Resting in Him,
Clete

:Clete:

:noway:

:wave:

 

[Alate_One]

I've not read the entire thread and so forgive me if this has already been addressed but I had to just point out that when you make a claim such as, "Creationist do not use the scientific method." and then someone responds to that claim by presenting counter examples of creationists who undeniably do use the scientific method, that's not at all what making an appeal to authority is.

I did address this. The standard creationist claim is "look people who do science believe in creationism, therefore creationism is scientific." It does not follow. The fact that some creationists *may* in some part of their work utilize the scientific method doesn't mean creationism is scientific or that creationists use the scientific method - in promoting creationism.

And he just did the same thing again, posting lists of scientists.

If anything it was you who used the appeal to authority fallacy by suggesting that because one well known creationist organization can be quoted as having said something unscientific that the quoted organization must therefore speak for and represent the whole population of creationists everywhere. It actually would more accurately fit the hasty generalization fallacy which is fitting since the theory of evolution is itself, at its foundation, one gargantuan hasty generalization fallacy.

Resting in Him,
Clete

Um, no. Creationism by definition is unscientific.

It appeals to the supernatural, generally makes itself untestable, is unfalsifiable (not tentative), not consistent -it isn't repeated.

See what I posted here.

 

[Clete]

Likely? *chuckle* I very much doubt you have anything close to that many. In any case numbers really have no meaning. But if you're only impressed by numbers, here's project Steve.

These are people (and only those with PhDs named Steve or derivatives of the name) that sign this statement:

I'll stipulate that there are lots of really smart qualified scientists whose parents named them Steve before they got their degrees if you'll stipulate that there are lots of really smart qualified scientists who chose to reject evolution with or without any help from their mommy and daddy.

 

[Stripe]

Creationism by definition is unscientific.

Strange then how in this very thread, a creationist defined his terms and used them to illustrate the difference between two competing ideas; encouraging a look at the evidence to see whether evolutionism or creation was justified.

The evolutionists ran for the hills; refusing to even acknowledge that a challenge was issued.

 

[Poly]

I've not read the entire thread and so forgive me if this has already been addressed but I had to just point out that when you make a claim such as, "Creationist do not use the scientific method." and then someone responds to that claim by presenting counter examples of creationists who undeniably do use the scientific method, that's not at all what making an appeal to authority is.

If anything it was you who used the appeal to authority fallacy by suggesting that because one well known creationist organization can be quoted as having said something unscientific that the quoted organization must therefore speak for and represent the whole population of creationists everywhere. It actually would more accurately fit the hasty generalization fallacy which is fitting since the theory of evolution is itself, at its foundation, one gargantuan hasty generalization fallacy.

Resting in Him,
Clete

TOL posters, we interrupt this thread to bring the following important message......















CLETE!!! HEY EVERYBODY, IT'S CLETE!!!! :banana: SO GREAT TO SEE YOU! I'VE MISSED YA, BUDDY!! THIS JUST MADE MY DAY.....

HEY, DIDJ'ALL SEE THAT CLETE'S HERE??!!! :the_wave:










Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[Stripe]

:Clete: :Clete: :Clete:

:banana: