Questions for Arians

[Jacob]

Greetings again Jacob,I am not sure if you are denying the resurrection of Jesus and his change from a mortal body to an immortal body, or if you are saying that Jesus already was the Son of God during his ministry, and therefore the title continues on after he is resurrected and glorified. To me, resurrection is like a new birth, a new stage, a greater and fuller reflection of God, and as such in the fullest sense Jesus became The Son of God. He is now seated at the right hand of God Psalm 110:1.

Kind regards
Trevor

Everything except for Jesus became the Son of God.

 

[Lon]

If you had asked your question in the terms of the first sentence I bolded here I would have had a much clearer understanding of what you were asking. Instead you asked how a created being could indwell "you", meaning me, myself, as a single individual. That is how I read your question. I didn't see that as a request to explain my understanding of the Godhead. I saw that as a request to explain how devil possession works compared to how God "possesses" us when we surrender to Him. It sort of confused me when you were upset when non-trinitarian/non-triune believers responded. That is why I thought the question inadequate for it was confusing, to me.

I see the Godhead as three persons with one purpose, one character, one set of motives. Thus we always know exactly how they will react. How they will act. Jesus said, if you have seen me you have seen the Father. I take that to mean not that they are the same person but they are so alike in all three aspects I started this paragraph with that by knowing one of them we know all three of them. Jesus coming to earth was to show us who God is, what His love is like when seen in human form. That is a must for us because all we know is sin. It is our only reality. We are born into it. We live with it 24/7 and we needed some way to truly understand God's love for the devil has so misrepresented who God is that only the reality of who God is could allow us to see the disparity between who He is and who the devil has portrayed Him to be.

There were implications regarding an Arian/Unitarian perspective. I appreciate you saying you are not such as one. It too helps for the thread. -Lon

 

[Lon]

Jesus is a man. Is His Spirit the Spirit of God?

Yes, and the Creeds say He was fully man.

 

[Lon]

If that's what Jesus asks His Father to do which Jesus Jesus says He sill do.




We still have to have the willingness to be obedient to Jesus becaseu He will look into our heart.

I'll try to rephrase my question: Does both the Lord Jesus Christ AND the Father Indwell us? Is the Spirit a being?
Which one of these indwell us? All of them?

Your questions are still redundant. My comments are not twisted nor making simple complicated like most of you do. That's why you have so many man-made doctrines. That's the sure way to making simple complicated.

Kind of like trying to avoid Algebra and stick to just basic math? :think: I'm asking you if it is just the Father, just the Spirit, or just the Lord Jesus Christ that indwells you? That is easy enough isn't it?

I will keep on sticking to the simple and clear statements of the Scripture.

blessings.

That would be practicing patience (and perhaps a bit of longsuffering).

 

[meshak]

I'll try to rephrase my question: Does both the Lord Jesus Christ AND the Father Indwell us?

I hope so. We will know if we have been truthful to Jesus when we meet Jesus.

with Is the Spirit a being?

Of course it is. It is not visible though.

Kind of like trying to avoid Algebra and stick to just basic math?

I don't think so. Spiritual matter is not a math.

I'm asking you if it is just the Father, just the Spirit, or just the Lord Jesus Christ that indwells you? That is easy enough isn't it?

You are being redundant.

See my first reply in this post.

blessings.

 

[Right Divider]

I hope so. We will know if we have been truthful to Jesus when we meet Jesus.

If you were saved by grace through faith you would know it now.

Your performance based religion is a result of not rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Lon]

I hope so. We will know if we have been truthful to Jesus when we meet Jesus.

In a sense, this is a triune understanding because you are saying both, and the Spirit does not lead away from one or the other. "One in purpose" may seem an Arian/Unitarian statement, but it is an explanation of John 10:30. Such a statement, I don't believe, is Arian/UnitArian. It has to come from a Triune (Trinitarian) position because of the dual nature of the oneness. I realize a Unitarian/Arian tries to differentiate, but they are actually emphasizing the oneness between Father and Son here. Further, they may not recognize the Spirit as a Being, but it is yet very close to Triune (Trinitarian) expression.

Of course it is. It is not visible though.

"It" has an impersonal implication. Other languages can say this better but we have to adopt the masculine "Him" or feminine "Her" to differentiate. For this, most Christians will have said your sentence thus: "Of course He is. He is not visible, but Spirit-invisible." <-- Does this reflect accurately what you are saying? Thanks.

I don't think so. Spiritual matter is not a math.

It is. You've said "One" God for instance, so math is important and part of this discussion. I also believe the nature of God, and the nature of the Lord Jesus Christ requires Algebraic expression specifically because God has not given us the values for some of our expression. Because of that, you might say a Trinitarian is trying for an Alegebraic expression of the relationship between Father/Son/Spirit. An Arian/Unitarian is rather, using a Basic (simple) Mathematics expression. The Trinitarian (Triune believer), is disagreeing that scripture presents God this simple.

You are being redundant.

Sort of, I'm being pedantic, because it shows both where we agree, as well as where we differ, and that is important. Does the difference between Algebraic vs Basic appreciations, by example, assist with your understanding why it is more complex to us?

Again, thank you for your patience. -Lon

 

[meshak]

In a sense, this is a triune understanding because you are saying both, and the Spirit does not lead away from one or the other. "One in purpose" may seem an Arian/Unitarian statement, but it is an explanation of John 10:30. Such a statement, I don't believe, is Arian/UnitArian. It has to come from a Triune (Trinitarian) position because of the dual nature of the oneness. I realize a Unitarian/Arian tries to differentiate, but they are actually emphasizing the oneness between Father and Son here. Further, they may not recognize the Spirit as a Being, but it is yet very close to Triune (Trinitarian) expression.



"It" has an impersonal implication. Other languages can say this better but we have to adopt the masculine "Him" or feminine "Her" to differentiate. For this, most Christians will have said your sentence thus: "Of course He is. He is not visible, but Spirit-invisible." <-- Does this reflect accurately what you are saying? Thanks.





It is. You've said "One" God for instance, so math is important and part of this discussion. I also believe the nature of God, and the nature of the Lord Jesus Christ requires Algebraic expression specifically because God has not given us the values for some of our expression. Because of that, you might say a Trinitarian is trying for an Alegebraic expression of the relationship between Father/Son/Spirit. An Arian/Unitarian is rather, using a Basic (simple) Mathematics expression. The Trinitarian (Triune believer), is disagreeing that scripture presents God this simple.



Sort of, I'm being pedantic, because it shows both where we agree, as well as where we differ, and that is important. Does the difference between Algebraic vs Basic appreciations, by example, assist with your understanding why it is more complex to us?

Again, thank you for your patience. -Lon

I have no idea what you are talking about.

And I will not trying to understanding your complicated faith.

 

[Gary K]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

And I will not trying to understanding your complicated faith.

Of course you understand what Lon is saying. At least you testify that you do for you say you accept scripture just as it is written.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The two words I emphasized in the quote both say that the Comforter is a person. He and whom are only used with respect to persons.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Of course you understand what Lon is saying. At least you testify that you do for you say you accept scripture just as it is written.

The two words I emphasized in the quote both say that the Comforter is a person. He and whom are only used with respect to persons.

But don't you know? Meshak rejects Christ's words, though.

Specifically...

But the Lord said to him, [JESUS]“Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”[/JESUS] - Acts 9:15-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts9:15-16&version=NKJV

Meshak is very picky when it comes to choosing which words of Jesus she'll accept.

 

[meshak]

Meshak is very picky when it comes to choosing which words of Jesus she'll accept.

I accept all Jesus' word.

I just don't read the way you guys are doing.

I am a simple follower and I don't need to twist around His word and making it complicated as guys do.

 

[Right Divider]

I accept all Jesus' word.

I just don't read the way you guys are doing.

I am a simple follower and I don't need to twist around His word and making it complicated as guys do.

Fake news.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I accept all Jesus' word.

No, you don't accept all of Christ's words, otherwise you wouldn't reject most of the New Testament which was written by the Apostle Paul.

You hate Paul.

And it's because you're not willing to accept what Christ said about Him in Acts 9:15.

I just don't read the way you guys are doing.

And how is that?

Scripture has Christ plainly affirming Paul's ministry, yet you reject Paul completely.

What other way is there to read that?

I am a simple follower

You're not a follower of Christ at all, otherwise you would accept EVERYTHING He says, especially about Paul.

and I don't need to twist around His word and making it complicated as guys do.

Straw man.

We don't twist scripture. You just can't accept what it says.

 

[meshak]

No, you don't accept all of Christ's words, otherwise you wouldn't reject most of the New Testament which was written by the Apostle Paul.

You hate Paul.

And it's because you're not willing to accept what Christ said about Him in Acts 9:15.



And how is that?

Scripture has Christ plainly affirming Paul's ministry, yet you reject Paul completely.

What other way is there to read that?



You're not a follower of Christ at all, otherwise you would accept EVERYTHING He says, especially about Paul.



Straw man.

We don't twist scripture. You just can't accept what it says.

suit yourself.

good day.

 

[JudgeRightly]

suit yourself.

good day.

That's right, run away from the truth like a good Meshak.

 

[Gary K]

I accept all Jesus' word.

I just don't read the way you guys are doing.

I am a simple follower and I don't need to twist around His word and making it complicated as guys do.

Are you saying to read the English language just as it is written is just too complicated for you?

How about the following verse? Are the words he and himself too complicated to understand?

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. :

 

[Right Divider]

That's right, run away from the truth like a good Meshak.

Our meshak (both #1 and #2) would have burned up in the fiery furnace.

 

[Gary K]

But don't you know? Meshak rejects Christ's words, though.

Specifically...

But the Lord said to him, [JESUS]“Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”[/JESUS] - Acts 9:15-16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts9:15-16&version=NKJV

Meshak is very picky when it comes to choosing which words of Jesus she'll accept.

I've seen Meshak make the claim time and time again that we must accept the words of Jesus, yet here she is denying them saying they are too complicated to understand. I like Meshak, as well as Shadrach and Abednego, but I have a problem with this denial of reality and the excuse that simply written scripture is way too complicated to be understood.

 

[meshak]

Are you saying to read the English language just as it is written is just too complicated for you?

How about the following verse? Are the words he and himself too complicated to understand?

I don't even know what we are discussing about.

that's what happens when man-made doctrine followers get into arguments.

 

[Right Divider]

I don't even know what we are discussing about.

that's what happens when man-made doctrine followers get into arguments.

No, that's what happens when a dim bulb steps into the sunlight.