glorydaz
Well-known member
:first:
Question for Madists.
- Thread starter Brother Ducky
- Start date
:first:
musterion
Well-known member
Perhaps but I doubt it. Baptists count their annual number of converts not by professions of faith but by how many people they physically get in the tank.
Did you answer why people should be baptized if it's not a sin/obedience/fellowship issue? Still not seeing where "should" enters into it.
Brother Ducky
New member
I toyed with the idea of multiple threads, but that is too hard for someone as stupid as I am. So the sanctification portion of the posts is just a way of tieing together areas of discussion that I have wondered about.
Sorry if I confused or misled you. I do not consider sanctification to be sacramental.
Not sure I understand the last part of the post. Are you saying sanctification is by the Spirit; while Lord's Supper and baptism is by the law?
Not sure the force of Paul's statement is "you can do this or you can skip this" but rather I expect you to do this, and when you do it..."
glorydaz
Well-known member
Only to the few who requested it. Some do it today as an outward sign of their inner faith. It's like standing up on the street corner and saying I believe. I've had friends that wanted to make a statement, knowing full well they had already been saved, and baptised by the Spirit into the body of Christ.
Paul does say, though, that there is ONE BAPTISM, and he certainly isn't talking about John's baptism of water. Ephesians 4:5
Clearly that ONE BAPTISM isn't John's.
Acts 19:2-4
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
musterion
Well-known member
Notice the quotes. Is it possible this is the correct reading?
Being John's disciples they'd already heard what Paul recounted and had already been water baptized. There is zero example anywhere of people being water baptized twice...yet most people think that's exactly what happened with these guys.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I'm not great at explaining things either. :chuckle:
Rather "as often as you do this", do it in remembrance. We can skip it because it's something that is willingly done....not from compunction. Law versus Grace.
Since we are not under the law for righteousness, there is nothing we have to do in order to be made righteous. Our righteousness comes with the gift of eternal life...salvation. Romans 5:17, 18
Sanctification means to set apart as holy. Under the law there was a lot of sanctifying (anointing) going on.
Under grace, we are sanctified by the Spirit. Set apart as holy when the righteousness of God is accounted to us.
Brother Ducky
New member
But baptists would expect there to be baptism after a profession of faith.
I did not specifically answer the question. It would be a sin for me, for I think that God calls Christians to be baptized.
I can't speak to those who believe that the requirement does not apply now.
So I would not break fellowship over baptism beliefs.
musterion
Well-known member
Of course they do but don't you realize what that says? A profession of faith in the saving Gospel of the grace of God is not good enough unless it is authenticated by letting them water baptize you.
You are contradicting yourself. It cannot be sin just for you. This isn't a mere dietary matter. God does not author the confusion you would accept. Either everyone today must be baptized according to His will, or no one needs be.
oh, i did not remember that. thanks
glorydaz
Well-known member
Ha, if you're like me, I forget what I wrote two weeks ago. I surprise myself sometimes. "That sounds like something I might say, but......"
Ha, if you're like me, I forget what I wrote two weeks ago. I surprise myself sometimes. "That sounds like something I might say, but......"
I had not remembered Matthew 3:11 in context
glorydaz
Well-known member
Just joshin' with ya, sweetie.
Right Divider
Body part
Because he had not yet been told that water baptism was not part of his calling.
God's revelation is always progressive.
Right Divider
Body part
Unless one is believing wrongly. Then it would be a bad thing.
Water baptism has no place in the body of Christ.
Water baptism was part of God's dealings with Israel and their priesthood. They had MANY water baptisms (i.e., cleaning ceremonies).
Right Divider
Body part
Indeed, the purging of Israel was to be a refining.
This also refers to the "baptism by fire":
Zech 13:7-9 (AKJV/PCE)
(13:7) ¶ Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. (13:8) And it shall come to pass, [that] in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off [and] die; but the third shall be left therein. (13:9) And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It [is] my people: and they shall say, The LORD [is] my God.
Right Divider
Body part
This one too:
Mal 3:1-6 (AKJV/PCE)
Mal 3:1-6 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:1) Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. (3:2) But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he [is] like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: (3:3) And he shall sit [as] a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. (3:4) Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years. (3:5) And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in [his] wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger [from his right], and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts. (3:6) For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Ah, thanks, RD, those verses make it very clear. :thumb:
glorydaz
Well-known member
And this is one of my favorite evidences of that.
Acts 15:10-12
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. 12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. 12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
Nope.
Paul already had a Gentile ministry back in Acts 9, that had not involved submission to any Israelite ritual.
The water ritual was a purification issue within Israel that he practiced when among them, just like visiting a home where the custom is to remove one's shoes before walking into their home.
musterion
Well-known member
Yep, right out of Moses' own mouth.