musterion
Well-known member
It is a very leftist film, like the perverted nutcase who wrote the story.
ECT Q for those who believe in salvation by grace thru faith in Christ w/o works
- Thread starter musterion
- Start date
It is a very leftist film, like the perverted nutcase who wrote the story.
musterion
Well-known member
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Lol - o ye of limited lens.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
You're the Sgt Dietrich of TOL, well read, and the intellectual, not sparing the rod to instruct any of your peers!
You're just as welcome to call me out on a thing.
We are not...the issue.
The Lord ALONE...is.
And...I was ribbing you, there.
musterion
Well-known member
More like Scanlon from Internal Affairs.
ha!
Looking for all those dirty Christians that don't follow the rules.
There you go again; unable to but project your club's very practice of that towards anyone who does not agree with you, on anyone who points out that is exactly what you are doing :chuckle: :doh:
Derf
Well-known member
I have a related question: What if someone ceases to believe in Christ? If belief in Christ is the clincher, and it seems like it is, then what if someone who believed no longer believes? Has that person lost his salvation, or did he never have it in the first place? Were all of his sins forgiven at his conversion, including the future sin of unbelief?
I think you misconstrued what I meant.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Those of us who have believed in our hearts will always believe:
"The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever" (2 Jn.1:2).
Besides that, the Lord Jesus says that those who believe have eternal life (Jn.5:24) and He also says that those to whom He gives eternal life will never perish (Jn.10:28).
Intentionally :chuckle:
The only way to go! :thumb:
Derf
Well-known member
Yet there are those that actually ESCAPE the pollutions of the world through knowledge of the truth, but they are then overcome again, such that they are worse off than if they had never believed.
[2Pe 2:20-21 KJV] 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
Maybe you will say they didn't really believe in their hearts, but then how did the knowledge allow them to escape the pollutions of the world?
I'm suggesting that a believer that no longer believes is not a believer. Is that a bad thing to say?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Those who deny the eternal security of the believer ask, "If this passage refers to people who have eternal security then how would it have been better for them NOT to have known the way of righteousness?"
Let us look at the following verse:
"For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them" (2 Pet.2:21).
These people were obviously saved because they knew "the way of righteousness", which is by the law of the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ:
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death...That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Ro.8:2,4).
They knew the "way of righteousness" was by denying "worldy lusts" and "ungodliness":
"Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world" (Titus 2:12).
However, after being saved and knowing the "way of righteousness" they turned away from the "holy commandment". The Greek word translated "commandment" means "of the whole body of moral precepts of Christianity 2 Pet. ii. 21" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).
The words of Peter at 2 Peter 2:20-21 are speaking of some Christians who were born again and they are described as "those who are just escaping from those who live in error" (v.18) and as having escaped the pollutions of the world (v.20). However,some false teachers had "promised them liberty" (v.19) and allured them through the lusts of their flesh into believing a false teaching in regard to "morals." This false teaching is probably the same thing that Paul refers to at Romans 3:8--that the Christians were falsely accused of teaching "Let us do evil that good may come." This was a false teaching that said that the more we sin then the more that grace will abound, and was based on a false interpretation of the words at Romans 6:1-"shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?"
So the people who had escaped moral pollution by the knowledge of the gospel as well as the moral teachings that urge the Christian to keep himself "holy" had been deceived into believing that they should continue to sin so that grace would abound even more. They returned to their old way of life (v.22). They are worse off now and it would have been better if they had never even heard the moral commandments at first because now they have no excuse for their behavior.
Nonetheless, upon believing the gospel they received eternal life and the assurance that they will never perish (Jn.3:16)
With a little Cane Fu :chuckle:
I'm called Pretty Grasshopper.
Lol - more like purty ornery - wouldn't change ya for the world; though :thumb:
Lon
Well-known member
There are more verses and a good read of the whole chapter, I think, helps. It seems to me, the term believer has to be explained and probably is part of the problem as a definition. Peter is describing rather 'church-goers' than someone who is born of the Spirit of God.
I believe scripture makes a distinction between someone who is among Christians, and Christians. 1 John 2:19 for instance, says "they were never a part of 'us' or they would never have left us." 2 Peter 2:9 contrasts the 'godly' from the 'false' in this case, that it would encompass very much 1 John's message that God preserves the godly AND keeps the ungodly under judgement.
In Him -Lon