Purpose of Water Baptism

[turbosixx]

I am not going to debate the Bible any longer with people who have not read it. You are falling into that category with your question.

I'm not a bible expert by any stretch but I believe I have a good grip on the truth. If you don't want to debate this topic that is your choice. I was hoping to get your understanding on the subject with the verses that brought you to that conclusion.

It has been some time since I took TOL more serious.

I'm glad your getting serious again. I feel it's good to discuss with those who see things differently. Makes us think.

 

[turbosixx]

Water baptism, that is John's baptism, is a thing of the past.

As both John the B and Jesus C foretold and Luke repeats, it was replaced by a greater baptism.

That baptism is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Or as it was called after the original outpouring on the day of Pentecost, the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

Acts 1:5 is one verse.

So after Acts 1:5 all we see is baptism of the Holy Spirit? Could you please show this Holy Spirit baptism after Acts 1:5. I only know of one other instance and it was a special occasion as was the one in Acts 1.

I see more than one instance of water baptism after Acts 2.

 

[turbosixx]

There's pretty much only one tiny group that does not subscribe to any form of water ritual. You get one guess what it is.

MAD

 

[jamie]

MAD

MADites claim they are not of Israel so they claim Jesus' message is not for them. Of course, Jesus said his message was not his, it is the Father's.

The irony is they cannot tell you where the nations of Israel are today. It seems they claim the Father abandoned his firstborn son he brought out of Egypt. For them, so much for a Father's love.

 

[musterion]

MAD

Yep.

So what's all this "baptism is almost a thing of the past" nonsense

 

[Nick M]

I'm not a bible expert by any stretch but I believe I have a good grip on the truth.

I am not a Bible study kind of person. But I read it and believe what it says. I am not a part of the Israelite priesthood. I don't need a ceremonial cleansing. How can you ask where that information is, unless you have not read it.

 

[patrick jane]

The irony is they cannot tell you where the nations of Israel are today.

Tell us all where the "nations of Israel" are.

 

[glorydaz]

Does this baptism of the holy Spirit take place in the mind without ceremony?

There is no ceremony in believing unto righteousness. Romans 10:10

It seems marriage takes place in the mind of many with no ceremony. It used to be called shacking up.

Is spirit baptism analogous to shacking up, i.e., no ceremony?

No ceremony....more like an operation of God.

 

[glorydaz]

MADites claim they are not of Israel so they claim Jesus' message is not for them. Of course, Jesus said his message was not his, it is the Father's.

The irony is they cannot tell you where the nations of Israel are today. It seems they claim the Father abandoned his firstborn son he brought out of Egypt. For them, so much for a Father's love.

The true irony is that you don't seem to know what those "Madites" believe.

 

[Nick M]

The Lord Jesus Christ's message is directly for me. But only the one he gave to Paul, not to Peter.

 

[jamie]

The true irony is that you don't seem to know what those "Madites" believe.

Lucky me.

:thumb:

 

[Tambora]

MADites claim they are not of Israel

Right. Israel is Israel. The BOC is the BOC.

so they claim Jesus' message is not for them.

Wrong.
We most certainly claim that the message the risen Lord Jesus Christ reveled to His chosen apostle, Paul, is for us.

The irony is they cannot tell you where the nations of Israel are today.

Ummm. We say what scripture says about Israel. That they are scattered throughout the world.

It seems they claim the Father abandoned his firstborn son he brought out of Egypt. For them, so much for a Father's love.

Ummm. Again, we say what scripture says about Israel. And scripture gives more than one occasion where GOD temporarily withheld blessings from Israel.
Didn't mean He did not love them.

 

[turbosixx]

Yep.

So what's all this "baptism is almost a thing of the past" nonsense

I think this thread would be enough evidence. I don't know what percentage of people on here are "Christian" but I would imagine it's over 90%. Since Jesus commanded baptism I would think all Christians should have some understanding about it, either for or against. If that conclusion doesn't come from the bible, then what are they trusting in. No one yet has responded proving what the purpose of baptism is from scripture.

Also, I know a fair number of "Christians" and they do not know what the bible says about baptism. One guy told me he refused to be baptized because it cannot save him but he admitted he didn't know anything about it although he had been a "Christian" for 20 years.

 

[turbosixx]

I am not a Bible study kind of person. But I read it and believe what it says. I am not a part of the Israelite priesthood. I don't need a ceremonial cleansing. How can you ask where that information is, unless you have not read it.

I've read it and I know it. I see a lot of confusion on baptism and this thread proves why. Peoples understanding isn't based on what the bible says.

Is Jesus your savior? He commanded make Christians by baptizing them in his name. If you do not believe you need to be baptized in the name of Jesus then I think it would be wise to know the scriptures that prove what it's purpose is and that that purpose isn't for you.

It appears to me your basing your understanding of baptism on the OT which was a shadow and not the very thing. What does the NT say about baptism.

 

[jamie]

Wrong.
We most certainly claim that the message the risen Lord Jesus Christ reveled to His chosen apostle, Paul, is for us.

Did Paul teach anything contrary to the Hebrew Bible? Or were all of his "revelations" scriptural?

 

[jamie]

Right. Israel is Israel. The BOC is the BOC.

Do you believe the King of Israel is the head of his body?

 

[musterion]

I think this thread would be enough evidence. I don't know what percentage of people on here are "Christian" but I would imagine it's over 90%. Since Jesus commanded baptism I would think all Christians should have some understanding about it, either for or against. If that conclusion doesn't come from the bible, then what are they trusting in. No one yet has responded proving what the purpose of baptism is from scripture.

Also, I know a fair number of "Christians" and they do not know what the bible says about baptism. One guy told me he refused to be baptized because it cannot save him but he admitted he didn't know anything about it although he had been a "Christian" for 20 years.

Before I probably waste my time by trying to answer that, I need to ask you one clarifying question.

Do you believe the whole point and purpose of water baptism, as God intended it, can be found and defined solely by looking at the four gospels, Acts and the Epistles?

 

[Nick M]

Leviticus 16

4 He shall put the holy linen tunic and the linen trousers on his body; he shall be girded with a linen sash, and with the linen turban he shall be attired. These are holy garments. Therefore he shall wash his body in water, and put them on.

3 “Then Aaron shall come into the tabernacle of meeting, shall take off the linen garments which he put on when he went into the Holy Place, and shall leave them there. 24 And he shall wash his body with water in a holy place, put on his garments, come out and offer his burnt offering and the burnt offering of the people, and make atonement for himself and for the people.

The priest is to wash, then he will atone for sin. Later we see John washing in the river, the entire nation, all who will answer their call of a nation of priests. And of course those zealous for the law, but not for God (they didn't listen to Moses, as was shown to us) questioned why he was baptizing.

John 1

19 Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”

20 He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.”

24 Now those who were sent were from the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, saying, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”

Water baptism is a washing. I have been washed and I have been justified. My life is hid with Christ. I don't need to be recleaned. I am dead to sin, and alive to Christ.

 

[musterion]

Leviticus 16

4 He shall put the holy linen tunic and the linen trousers on his body; he shall be girded with a linen sash, and with the linen turban he shall be attired. These are holy garments. Therefore he shall wash his body in water, and put them on.

3 “Then Aaron shall come into the tabernacle of meeting, shall take off the linen garments which he put on when he went into the Holy Place, and shall leave them there. 24 And he shall wash his body with water in a holy place, put on his garments, come out and offer his burnt offering and the burnt offering of the people, and make atonement for himself and for the people.

The priest is to wash, then he will atone for sin. Later we see John washing in the river, the entire nation, all who will answer their call of a nation of priests. And of course those zealous for the law, but not for God (they didn't listen to Moses, as was shown to us) questioned why he was baptizing.

John 1

19 Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?”

20 He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.”

24 Now those who were sent were from the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, saying, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”

Water baptism is a washing. I have been washed and I have been justified. My life is hid with Christ. I don't need to be recleaned. I am dead to sin, and alive to Christ.

And there it is.

Turbo, THAT is why water baptism existed. We already know you have disconnected whatever water rite you believe in, from all Old Testament context that explains why it even existed. Which is why you're the confused one, not us

 

[musterion]

Nick raised an important point there that you need to see if your seriously interested in this topic.

The Pharisees did not ask John what he was doing.

Instead, they asked him why, or by what authority, he presumed to be doing it (since he didn't clear it with them).

That means they knew exactly what he was doing. It was right out of Moses.