Public Education is a Terrible Idea!

[Selaphiel]

Isn't it amazing how the founders of the United States were able to read and write so well without a public education system?

And the founding fathers are representative of the common people in the 18th century? Are you for real? They could read and write well because they were privileged people. Public education does not ensure education for the rich and privileged, it ensures it for those who aren't.

History shows that it was private education that was responsible for the emergence of the developed western world.

History also shows the decline of the western world after the imposition of public education.

The development of public schooling happened long before the US was even a nation. In Europe, the reformation was responsible for the introduction of public schools. Focusing on teaching the people to read, among other things, so they could read and study the teaching of the church. The emergence of public schools basically came out of the teaching of confirmation students.

Decline? In what sense? Mortality and living standards have never been better at any point in history. You call that decline?

 

[glorydaz]

What I've gathered from being here at TOL is that the ones complaining about this have this idea that there is a war on Christianity in America right now. Obviously that's ridiculous, but never underestimate the power of putting a chip on your shoulder, no matter whether that chip is deserved or not

But, of course there IS a war on women...and a war on blacks....and a war on gays....and a war on immigrants. Must be something about the eye of the beholder. :think:

 

[Granite]

Remember how we fixed the health care crisis? You just make it mandatory for everyone to have health insurance, and fine them if they don't get it. Education could be just as big a success.

Right, everyone here considers health care "fixed.":yawn:

Do a lot of you have a death wish, or something?

 

[Granite]

We can't afford a private education while the government is taxing our income to pay for public education and using public schools to break up extended families so we no longer have the relationships needed to pool our resources to pay for our relatives to get a good education.

Lowering taxes won't make a private education affordable, feasible, available, or realistic for everyone. You're living in some kind of fantasy world.

 

[genuineoriginal]

And the founding fathers are representative of the common people in the 18th century? Are you for real? They could read and write well because they were privileged people.

So, your claim is that 95% of the people living in the American Colonies at the time of the founding fathers were privileged people?

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Marking Pennsylvania History : Reading as Common Sense

In the second half of the 17th century, the literacy rate for adult men in New England is estimated to have been as high as 95%, more than twice the estimated literacy rate for men in England. American women had literacy rates higher than 60%. Nowhere in the world was literacy greater.

In Colonial America, reading was not regarded as an elitist activity; it was regarded as an essential and popular activity. Reading was, as one historian put it, "the product of a busy, mobile society" and its spread is easily linked with the increasing interest in self-determination.

"Almost every man is a reader," wrote the Reverend Jacob Duche in 1772. Duche didn't have to go far from his church at 3rd and Pine Streets, to find evidence to support this observation. "The poorest laborer upon the shores of the Delaware thinks himself entitled to deliver his sentiment in matters of religion or politics with as much freedom as the gentlemen or scholar... such is the prevailing taste for books of every kind..."

In another four years, Thomas Paine's Common Sense would be stirring those debates. First published in January 1776, Common Sense sold more than 100,000 copies within the first two months. That's equal to a million copies in today's market. But there was more. Within the year, an estimated 400,000 copies were printed for a nation of three million independence-minded people. To find a comparable, contemporary success, we'd have to compare Common Sense to the popular, albeit lesser cultural event: the Super Bowl.

After the Revolutionary War, Franklin observed that Americans were so busy reading newspapers and pamphlets that they scarcely had time for books. Of course, Franklin had helped forge the new nation. And Franklin had helped set the stage for independence by feeding the literacy that stoked the desire for it. More than four decades before 1776, Franklin wrote "an innocent Plowman is more worth than a vicious Prince." The fact that so many could read this idea is remarkable.
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Public education does not ensure education for the rich and privileged, it ensures it for those who aren't.

You mean the other 5%?

The development of public schooling happened long before the US was even a nation. In Europe, the reformation was responsible for the introduction of public schools. Focusing on teaching the people to read, among other things, so they could read and study the teaching of the church. The emergence of public schools basically came out of the teaching of confirmation students.

The development of our modern public schooling system (Prussian Education System) came from the defeat of the Prussian army by Napoleon in 1806. Their solution was to create a government sponsored forced education system to indoctrinate the children into becoming soldiers that would follow orders because they had been systematically trained to not think for themselves.

Read more here.

Decline? In what sense? Mortality and living standards have never been better at any point in history. You call that decline?

We have a decline in morals, social skills, and the ability for people that have been indoctrinated in the public school system to think for themselves.

You are a good example of the latter.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Lowering taxes won't make a private education affordable, feasible, available, or realistic for everyone. You're living in some kind of fantasy world.

Parents would need to do their part in educating their children.
I am under no delusion that the current crop of indoctrinated products of the public school system would be capable of doing that.

 

[ok doser]

Lowering taxes won't make a private education affordable, feasible, available, or realistic for everyone. You're living in some kind of fantasy world.

removing school taxes from a family's financial burden would go a long way toward making a single-earner household viable

and if mom's not working, guess what she could be doing?

 

[Granite]

Parents would need to do their part in educating their children.
I am under no delusion that the current crop of indoctrinated products of the public school system would be capable of doing that.

Yourself included, it's worth pointing out.

So: If the current batch can't do it what's the solution?

 

[glorydaz]

removing school taxes from a family's financial burden would go a long way toward making a single-earner household viable

and if mom's not working, guess what she could be doing?

And doing it better than the public schools can do, that's for sure.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Yourself included, it's worth pointing out.

You are also in the list.

So: If the current batch can't do it what's the solution?

We need a new batch of home-schooled and private-schooled people to lead the way.

So, the solution is to make home-schooling and private-schooling an easier option than public schooling for most Americans.

 

[Granite]

You are also in the list.

Nope. Never attended a public school in my entire life. Learned to swim in one thanks to the Red Cross, but that's it.

But you're a product of that system, yes? Which means, following your thinking, you're less qualified to speak than I am, since I was schooled at home and at a parochial high school.

We need a new batch of home-schooled and private-schooled people to lead the way.

And where does this batch come from? Who educates them? You understand the cart and horse problem. Who goes first? (Do I detect a whiff of elitist dreaming here? A Christian homeschooled A-team to lead the way?)

So, the solution is to make home-schooling and private-schooling an easier option than public schooling for most Americans.

So you think just handing people more money will solve the problem. Where do these private schools come from? Is there going to be an interim period while we're dismantling the Baal Brothels of Public Education? What about such parents you don't think are qualified to homeschool their kids? Would you make private education compulsory in those cases? Why or why not?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Nope. Never attended a public school in my entire life. Learned to swim in one thanks to the Red Cross, but that's it.

So, your stupidity is not a product of the public education system but something you come by naturally?

 

[The Horn]

Kids who attend public schools aren't the "indoctrinated " ones. On the contrary , the REAL indoctrination is by many Christian home schooling parents who keep their children pitifully ignorant of science, REAL history , and brainwashed into believing the earth is 6,000 years old, created in one week by an old man in the sky with a white beard who made the imaginary garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, a talking snake , Noah and his imaginary ark and all that nonsense .
Genesis is an ancient allegory based on earlier Babylonian mythology .
Many of these home schooling Christians teach their children to believe that dinosaurs lived at the same time as humans, and much more hooey . And that homosexuality is an "abomination " while also taking their children to eat at Red Lobster to eat the very shellfish called an "abomination by the Bible.
Let's face it - this is child abuse. Not physical , but mental .

 

[genuineoriginal]

Kids who attend public schools aren't the "indoctrinated " ones.

Sure they are.

Kids who attend public schools are indoctrinated into thinking that homosexuality is not an abomination.

That puts their very souls at risk of eternal damnation.

You must really hate kids if you want to abuse them in that manner.

taking their children to eat at Red Lobster to eat the very shellfish called an "abomination by the Bible.
Let's face it - this is child abuse. Not physical , but mental .

Well, the Bible said "they shall be an abomination unto you" (שֶׁקֶץ sheqets an unclean thing).
I would say don't do it, but I wouldn't call it child abuse.

On the other hand the Bible says that homosexuals "have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (תּוֹעֵבָה tow`ebah something morally disgusting).
Teaching kids to be homosexuals is child abuse.

 

[ok doser]

So you think just handing people more money ...

typical liberal thinking

we're talking about taxing them less, iow keeping the government from stealing their hard earned money to fund a failing system

 

[Angel4Truth]

Lowering taxes won't make a private education affordable, feasible, available, or realistic for everyone. You're living in some kind of fantasy world.

Of course it would, if the money given to support the public school was put into a private school, of course it would make it realistic.

Do you think public schools pay for themselves?

 

[The Horn]

I'm not a Christian and have never believed what the Bible says about homosexuality . To me, the notion that God would send people to hell for being gay makes zero sense . And if it is true, God is monstrously evil , and I would never want to have anything to do with such an evil being or be in heaven, assuming it exists at all .
The Bible also calls eating pork and shellfish an abomination, as well as working on the Sabbath, wearing clothes with two or more different kinds of fabric, cutting your hear, having tattoos and so much more .
Teaching kids in SECULAR public schools ridiculous Christian
superstition is a blatant violation of their parents rights, and the kids too .
If hell existed , people like Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot,
Al Capone, the clergy responsible for the Spanish Inquisition,
Osama Bin Laden and other cruel ,evil people would belong there, not innocent gay people who had never harmed anyone, which is true of the vast majority of them .

 

[genuineoriginal]

Teaching kids in SECULAR public schools ridiculous Christian
superstition is a blatant violation of their parents rights, and the kids too .

That is why we need to abolish SECULAR public schools.
:thumb:

 

[Greg Jennings]

That is why we need to abolish SECULAR public schools.
:thumb:

You're right. We need all public schools to teach the important values of Islam and each should have its own little mosque

:thumb:

 

[Ktoyou]

You're right. We need all public schools to teach the important values of Islam and each should have its own little mosque

:thumb:

:wazzup:
You must be silly.