Public Education is a Terrible Idea!

aCultureWarrior

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This thread is ridiculous . Yes, our public schools are far from perfect and have their problems, but the conservative alternative is infinitely worse and would lead to total chaos in America .

The author of this thread, Clete, is not a conservative. He's a huge fan of an atheist who started the Objectivism movement, which has very close ties to Libertarianism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_(Ayn_Rand)

The public school system isn't going anywhere De Horn. It is however going to change for the better, something I'll be discussing in depth in my WHMBR! Part 4 thread.
 

The Horn

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Extreme libertarianism is not much better than right-wing conservatism . Ayn Rand needed welfare in her last years or she would have been starving on the streets . Oh, the irony !
 

Arthur Brain

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The author of this thread, Clete, is not a conservative. He's a huge fan of an atheist who started the Objectivism movement, which has very close ties to Libertarianism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_(Ayn_Rand)

The public school system isn't going anywhere De Horn. It is however going to change for the better, something I'll be discussing in depth in my WHMBR! Part 4 thread.

Well let's not forget that you're a fan of this outfit Connie:

http://creativitymovement.net/

:plain:
 

The Horn

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I may be a liberal , but nobody who knows me would call me a "nut case ". Liberals are the most sane, reasonable and rational people in America . And by no means all liberals are atheists . I'm an agnostic .
 

aCultureWarrior

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Well let's not forget that you're a fan of this outfit Connie:

http://creativitymovement.net/

:plain:

Two things Art:

1) Save your pet female names for your cross dressing friends.

2) Using a source (I use Planned Parenthood, HRC, Huffington Post articles, etc. frequently) does not make one a "fan" Arthurrrrr.

My my, you are taking that 4 part recriminalization of homosexuality thread rather hard aren't you? Have another drink.
 

Arthur Brain

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Two things Art:

1) Save your pet female names for your cross dressing friends.

2) Using a source (I use Planned Parenthood, HRC, Huffington Post articles, etc. frequently) does not make one a "fan" Arthurrrrr.

My my, you are taking that 4 part recriminalization of homosexuality thread rather hard aren't you? Have another drink.

But Connie, you're the one who used it as a source to slate MLK and you were very impressed with something or other on it as you referenced in your ongoing train wreck. It's also an atheist site but you're not above using it as source material when it suits so quit whining dude.

It sounds like you need one yourself but go easy on the liquor there...
 

aCultureWarrior

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But Connie, you're the one who used it as a source to slate MLK and you were very impressed with something or other on it as you referenced in your ongoing train wreck.

Yes princess, I did use that source, as well as sources from Planned Parenthood and other leftwing hate sources and I'll use them again if the information is factual.

Now that you've done your evening stalking, would you care to discuss pubic education, Ayn Rand or Objectivism/Libertarianism?

I didn't think so.
 

Arthur Brain

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Yes princess, I did use that source, as well as sources from Planned Parenthood and other leftwing hate sources and I'll use them again if the information is factual.

Now that you've done your evening stalking, would you care to discuss pubic education, Ayn Rand or Objectivism/Libertarianism?

I didn't think so.

What's good for the goose and all, and please, you and 'factual information' don't belong in the same sentence doofus.
 

aCultureWarrior

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What's good for the goose and all, and please, you and 'factual information' don't belong in the same sentence doofus.

How about instead of disrupting this thread like you've done you defend the communist-womanizing-fag when I re-open the MLK Jr. thread in January Arthurrrr?
 

Clete

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If your tax is being taken by force then you are doing it wrong. I have my taxes taken, using no force whatsoever, from my pay at source.
If this comment wasn't said as some sort of joke then you're stupid.

Your taxes are taken from you by force of law. If you think they're voluntary then just try not paying them and see how long it take for people with guns to show up to take the money by physical force.

And if you think the wear the guns for show, try resisting them when they show up.

Do your tax collectors turn up at you door with guns like everyone else does?

They sure as hell would if I decided to refuse to pay them! Depending on the lengths I was willing to go in my refusal, someone would eventually show up with a gun and cart me off to jail.
 

OCTOBER23

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PUBLIC EDUCATION CAUSES YOUNG PEOPLE TO SOCIALLY INTERACT

AND THE STRESSES THAT THAT CAUSES FORCES THEM TO REACT

AND EITHER GIVE UP OR ADAPT OR FIGHT THE SYSTEM.

IT MAKES THEM QUESTION LIFE.

Let's dance.:dog::dog:
 

Clete

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This thread is ridiculous . Yes, our public schools are far from perfect and have their problems, but the conservative alternative is infinitely worse and would lead to total chaos in America .
Saying it doesn't make it so.

Complete privatization of education sounds like a good idea, but it is totally unrealistic for reasons which are too long to explain here .
For " for reasons which are too long to explain here" read, "I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about and can't even think of anything good to make up off the top of my head".

Home schooling is also very problematic, because too many home schooling parents are extremely conservative Christians who do a woefully inadequate job and also teach their kids that the world is only 6,000 years old, created in one week , Adam & Eve, a garden of Eden and a talking snake actually existed , dinosaurs existed at the same time as humans, Noah and his ark actually existed , etc and that God made Eve out of Adams rib .
Notice the implication here!

Hom thinks he knows what good for your kid better than you do and doesn't believe that you have the right to make such decisions. The state is the wiser, it should raise your kids the way it sees fit.

DANGEROUS!!!

Freedom cannot exist where such thinking is in the majority.

They teach their kids to be woefully ignorant of science , to be intolerant of anyone who does not share their religious and political beliefs, and to be hostile to gay people ,among other things which will handicap them for life .
This is all just a straight up, intentional lie. Hom near this was not true when he typed it.

True, not ALL parents who home school their kids are like this, but too many ARE .
Too many? By what standard?

Who gets to decide, you?

Who gets to decide what my children aught to be taught and what they shouldn't and on what basis?

Public schools don't "indoctrinate "kids to be atheists ,Marxists and communists and to hate Christians and Christianity , nor do they
try to "make kids gay ".
Niave at best. But I've never heard anyone even accuse the public school system of trying to make kids gay. That wouldn't work anyway. The way you make a kid potentially gay is to molest him between the ages of 5 and 8 years old and even that doesn't work most of the time.

But too many home schooling parents DO indoctrinate and brainwash their kids with what I described earlier in this post .
And you would stop them by what right? By what standard do you decide what is and is not considered indoctrination? Whether they are teaching things you agree with? Who made you the "indoctrination czar"?

Kids need to learn about math, science, history, geography ,English
learn foreign languages , and to be exposed to music and the arts .
No one disagrees with this. This thread is not advocating the lack of education. Quite the contrary. The government sucks at educating people. Private schools that sucked as bad as the government schools current do, would go out of business almost immediately.
Market forces would cause those private organizations that are good at educating kids to grow, getting more and more students eventually growing to the point the the economies of scale cause the expense of educating kids gets a lot cheaper per child, eventually causing even the poor to afford what at one time was only available to the rich and connected. Under a free market system, nearly every child would have access to the best and most innovative and effective teaching techniques. Techniques which there's hardly any incentive for anyone to come up with today.

It's just like everything else in the free market. Competition drives innovation and advancement including ways to distribute the service in more efficient ways causing prices to come down.

As it is today, there are no market forces hardly at all. The result is an entrenched, bureaucratic teachers union that is WAY more interested in their political influence than they are in teaching math, science, history and geography.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

aCultureWarrior

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Quote: Originally posted by The Horn
Public schools don't "indoctrinate "kids to be atheists ,Marxists and communists and to hate Christians and Christianity , nor do they
try to "make kids gay ".

Niave at best. But I've never heard anyone even accuse the public school system of trying to make kids gay. That wouldn't work anyway.

Your ignorance has no boundaries. You speak against public education but have no knowledge of LGBTQ&Q clubs in many of them (they have clubs for children that "question" their sexual orientation, encouraging them to "experiment" with homosexuality).

The way you make a kid potentially gay is to molest him between the ages of 5 and 8 years old and even that doesn't work most of the time.

Again, your ignorance has no boundaries. Children that are sexually molested grow up being sexually confused and often times without therapy turn to homosexuality.
 

kiwimacahau

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Ah, Ayn Rand. Quoting her is an indication of idiocy. As for public school, they are the life-blood of a secular state. Don't agree? Found your own school and proudly resist public funding but do try and make sure your students can compete.
 

Clete

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The author of this thread, Clete, is not a conservative. He's a huge fan of an atheist who started the Objectivism movement, which has very close ties to Libertarianism.
I am a conservative and disagree with Libertarians on a great many issues.

I am however a very strong proponent of free market capitalism. Most people today, however, don't even understand what that is. They think we live in a capitalist society. We do not. Functionally speaking, our economy is more or less fascist. The businesses in this country are privately owned but cannot even be opened without permission from the government and is kept in line through countless reams of regulations and tax law that no business could hope to stay fully in compliance with giving the government the power to shut down virtually any business it wants to at will.

Objectivism makes several key mistakes in its core presuppositions, chief among them is the belief that God does not exist.

Interestingly, even with that flaw, it gets more right than it gets wrong and has a far more rationally consistence epistemological, political and ethical philosophy than you do, I'd wager.

In fact, I'd wager that you couldn't argue your way out of a wet paper bag against their dumbest advocate.

If you care to prove me wrong, you can start by simply responding to the arguments made in the opening two posts of this thread. A feat that, so far, not one single advocate of public education has even bothered to attempt.

The public school system isn't going anywhere....
This is no doubt true!

I have no delusions about an attempt to privatize the school system being successful. There's way too much money and power involved for the government to ever allow it. It would literally require something akin to an outright civil war to accomplish it.

However, whether the ideal can be accomplished or not does not speak to whether the ideal aught to be advocated or discussed. How do you even know what "change for the better" would look like if you're not willing to think through the issues involved? If you cannot refute the arguments made for a particular system then on what basis do you declare your system better?

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

aCultureWarrior

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Ah, Ayn Rand. Quoting her is an indication of idiocy.

Maybe if you're lucky Clete will tell you the story of how she was a fan of a serial killer who chopped the arms off of a 12 year old girl.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/01/how-ayn-rand-became-a-big-admirer-of-serial-killer-william-hickman/

As for public school, they are the life-blood of a secular state.

Public schools weren't always secular. When they started in America the Bible was a book that was used in every classroom.
 

aCultureWarrior

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
The author of this thread, Clete, is not a conservative. He's a huge fan of an atheist who started the Objectivism movement, which has very close ties to Libertarianism.

I am a conservative and disagree with Libertarians on a great many issues.

Yet I've never seen a conservative be so infatuated with an atheist like Ayn Rand (Paul Ryan and Rand Paul who are also Ayn Rand fans aren't conservative either).

I am however a very strong proponent of free market capitalism.

You've made that known many times with your mention of your tax dollars not being used to fund public education, something I hear frequently from Libertarians.

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_(Ayn_Rand)

Objectivism makes several key mistakes in its core presuppositions, chief among them is the belief that God does not exist.

Interestingly, even with that flaw, it gets more right than it gets wrong and has a far more rationally consistence epistemological, political and ethical philosophy than you do, I'd wager.

In fact, I'd wager that you couldn't argue your way out of a wet paper bag against their dumbest advocate.

I'm doing it right now and doing pretty good.

If you care to prove me wrong, you can start by simply responding to the arguments made in the opening two posts of this thread. A feat that, so far, not one single advocate of public education has even bothered to attempt.

I'm doing an entire segment on public education in my "Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized! Part 4" thread, showing how it made America great, how we lost that greatness and how to get it back.

You're welcome to come over and defend your secular humanist agenda if you wish.
 

Clete

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Your ignorance has no boundaries. You speak against public education but have no knowledge of LGBTQ&Q clubs in many of them (they have clubs for children that "question" their sexual orientation, encouraging them to "experiment" with homosexuality).
Because I was unaware of homo clubs in public schools, my ignorance has no bounds?

Is that really what you intended to say?

I don't deny that they exist. I just hadn't heard anything about it till now. It certainly doesn't surprise me.

Again, your ignorance has no boundaries. Children that are sexually molested grow up being sexually confused and often times without therapy turn to homosexuality.
That was the point I was making! Homos reproduce by molesting children. Nearly all male homos were molested as children between the ages of 5 and 8 years old. This was a totally undisputed medical fact before it became politically incorrect to say it. Most kids that are molested do not grow up to be homos, regardless of their age when the assaults happened. And so not even sexual molestation is a particularly effective way to "make kids gay" and so homo clubs in public schools aren't going to work. Their worst effect will be on girls who are more likely to be influenced in a social manner to experiment with lesbianism but even that, in most cases, isn't going to "make the gay". It case psychological abuse, in most cases, to create enough sexual confusion in a child to "make him/her gay".

It seems like this is not a point you and I disagree on. Why the hostility?

Resting in Him,
Clete
 
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