Proof that a OSAS person lost their salvation

[Grosnick Marowbe]

But before we leave the Garden there is one more Law of Nature that needs addressing. It is so very important to the OSAS philosophy of life that I quote it directly for love's sake

"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing. With pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband. And he will rule over you."

So don't blame the moron for that.

You ONLY have "10" Thanks. :rotfl:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Who really knows why you are here. I'm just a Calvinist.

A Calvinist with only "10" Thanks. :banana:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Crucible,

Very funny that you don't talk to me but you are in this thread. I once knew of some hypocrites like that. What is your angle. Have explained Cousin's reason for being here.

Maybe it's because you ONLY have "10" thanks? :drum:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The very first word in the title to this thread is "Proof".

You got any of that?

I have proof that you ONLY have "10" Thanks. :wave2:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You know not of which you speak. Read my post directly above.

Yeah, but you're a JW Cultist so your opinion is worthless, more or less. Mainly less.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Of course a person can be accepted by God (even to rule in heaven) and yet fall away---lose their salvation. There are many references to such an occurrence. In Hebrews there are mentioned those who had the Holy Spirit and had tasted of the powers of the age to come, and yet had returned to the old world, away from the calling that was once theirs. They had once been "saved."

JW=Opinion doesn't count.

 

[glorydaz]

I never said we can't have assurance in our Salvation. But to blindly think that believers can never fall away is presumption. Jesus gave four examples of believers in the parable of the sower though the first may or may not have been a believer with two groups who fell away because of persecution or riches and the cares of this world. Only the last group reached maturity and bore fruit. So we must conclude that mature believers do not fall away but the babes and nominal believers can and do fall away.

You're confused. Those who are sealed with the Holy Spirit have the Spirit dwelling in them and the fruit of the Spirit is the only fruit that counts. Fruit, itself, is the proof of salvation.

 

[glorydaz]

But if you want to take the New Testament in its entirety as truth then you must accept

The total depravity of man
Unconditional election
Limited atonement
Irresistible grace
Perseverance of the saints

What keeps people from the truth more than anything else is unconditional election. To bad for the losers.

Any other explanation of the New Testament taken as a whole is inadequate. Therefore the sign of false doctrine is that the false doctrine cannot address every thing in the New Testament. OSAS doctrine is so weak that it can only address a couple of chapters of the New Testament.

OSAS is a joke

It's people like you that give Calvinists a bad name. It's funny how you like the term "perseverance of the saints" yet scoff at OSAS. The "joke" is on you. :chuckle:

 

[Crucible]

Crucible,

Very funny that you don't talk to me but you are in this thread. I once knew of some hypocrites like that. What is your angle. Have explained Cousin's reason for being here.

OSAS is Calvinist doctrine :doh:

Perseverance of the Saints

You're acting ridiculous, going at OSAS as if it's 'Free Grace'.

 

[Bright Raven]

John 10:27-29 New International Version (NIV)

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

 

[theophilus]

They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Jesus says point blank that believers can and do fall away. Case closed.

If you "have no root" you have no salvation.

They have a temporal belief and not a spiritual, God-given belief.

vs. 8 - 8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. These are the only "believers" in this parable.

And nothing can snatch them from the Father's hand.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It's people like you that give Calvinists a bad name. It's funny how you like the term "perseverance of the saints" yet scoff at OSAS. The "joke" is on you. :chuckle:

DialM4Moron is his real name on TOL.

 

[Epoisses]

You're confused. Those who are sealed with the Holy Spirit have the Spirit dwelling in them and the fruit of the Spirit is the only fruit that counts. Fruit, itself, is the proof of salvation.

Born again Christians who had the Holy Spirit can and do fall from grace. Our focus should always be on Christ and his power to keep all those that belong to him but apostasy is a very real danger to all Christians. Peter believed in eternal security until he denied his Lord three times. After repentance he wasn't so proud anymore.

 

[Epoisses]

If you "have no root" you have no salvation.

They have a temporal belief and not a spiritual, God-given belief.

vs. 8 - 8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. These are the only "believers" in this parable.

And nothing can snatch them from the Father's hand.

Believers fall away and it's sad but to say it can never happen is presumption and eternal insecurity.

 

[Bright Raven]

Believers fall away and it's sad but to say it can never happen is presumption and eternal insecurity.

Why would you want to feel insecure when you can be eternally secure?

 

[Epoisses]

Why would you want to feel insecure when you can be eternally secure?

I just can't ignore scripture that says believers can and do fall away. In Christ's council to the seven churches of Revelation there was only one church that was commended (the church of brotherly love) all the rest were rebuked and commanded to repent.

 

[Bright Raven]

I just can't ignore scripture that says believers can and do fall away. In Christ's council to the seven churches of Revelation there was only one church that was commended (the church of brotherly love) all the rest were rebuked and commanded to repent.

And do you feel that scripture says a believer can fall away. You believe that we may be spiritually unsealed?

Ephesians 1:13 New King James Version (NKJV)

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[Epoisses]

And do you feel that scripture says a believer can fall away. You believe that we may be spiritually unsealed?

Ephesians 1:13 New King James Version (NKJV)

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Jesus presented faith with the things of nature where it can grow and mature or become weak and die. Falling away is not one time thing it's a final state. I couldn't count the number of Christians that I know who became atheists. Now did they really have the Holy Spirit? That's debatable.

 

[Bright Raven]

Jesus presented faith with the things of nature where it can grow and mature or become weak and die. Falling away is not one time thing it's a final state. I couldn't count the number of Christians that I know who became atheists. Now did they really have the Holy Spirit? That's debatable.

The question is; were they ever saved to begin with?

 

[Epoisses]

The question is; were they ever saved to begin with?

That's a good question. I can only see what's on the outside and many seemed genuine. God looks on the heart.