Proof from the Bible that God is In Time

[Lighthouse]

I would simply argue that God isn't subject to time as we are. His Glory and His paradigm are not even seen, much less understood by anyone in this earth.

And you still fail to argue that from Scripture. Where is your Scripture?

Is: "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever," in Scripture or not? I believe He has never changed, even though He took on The Form of Flesh. He was still God Almighty. Do you believe that?

So He didn't become flesh as John 1:14 states, He always was flesh?

Do you see how your insistence that His being the same means that nothing about Him has ever changed is false? The verse you're quoting here is in reference to His character; His character is the same and always will be.

 

[Letsargue]

Was the eternal Word always flesh or did He become flesh? If so, this is a change. Platonic ideas are not biblical.

That has Nothing to do with Time, and the (( Change of Time ))!! -- That is all God!! --Satan is of your "Lost Time"!! - Time has Been lost with all fools who are Lost with it!! - The Time that was intended, was Eternity, without the passing, or the changing of Time, but ((( Constant ))) as God!!! -- But Not - Time "Change", in Eternity!!!, of which Christ IS and Was!! - ( Revelation 22:13 KJV ) --///-- Time changing is for the Lost to Repent and come out from all that Garbage and foolishness that the lost Have about God and Satan's TIME!!! - There is no "Passing of Time" in Heaven!! --- Read it!!!:>>-- Revelation 22:5 KJV ---///--- Not even the Passing of a moment of the Day!!! -- that's what God says, if you all will Read it and have FAITH In what God says; --But!!!

(((((( Have fun Ignoring this, - "Living" people; while (( Life )) continues in Heaven, without the (((( Passing of Life )))); - there is no Passing of Eternity ))))))!!!

Paul -- 070613

 

[Letsargue]

Just because there was no measurement of time does not mean there was no time. God moved; He did things. Or are you wanting to argue that God did absolutely nothing for eternity until He created the Heavens and the Earth?

If anyone has read the Book to "Understand the Truth", they would understand that Time in the Lost earth, and (( Time )) in Eternity, is (((( different )))). Heavenly Time does not Pass, while Time on and in the Earth ( Passes, or is in a process of ( "Living", "ING" ). There Is NO "Living" in Heaven; there IS Only ((( Life ))), and We have IT!!!

Paul -- 070613

 

[Aimiel]

And you still fail to argue that from Scripture. Where is your Scripture?

Logically, were He subject to time, He wouldn't be God, time would.

So He didn't become flesh as John 1:14 states, He always was flesh?

He can appear in whatever Form He needs, since He is The Great I Am. By calling Himself that, He lets us know that He IS Whomever or Whatever He needs to be when He needs to be it. He is The Creator. He is The Ancient of Days. He is The Deliverer. He is The Lamb. He is The Lion. He is The Alpha and Omega, beginning and end (of time). He is above time.

Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

The earth doesn't have a 'circle' but time is a circle, since it has a beginning and an end which is the same point: God. He sits upon that circle since He is above it having created it.

Do you see how your insistence that His being the same means that nothing about Him has ever changed is false?

No, but I do see that your image of Him needs enlarged. He is more than you think He is, without ever changing, but manifests as He wills, similar to someone putting on a costume and playing a character in a movie. They don't change, but their role does. They're still the same person, but acting out a part to make a specific character come to life. God's Character is far more than anyone realizes. He is capable of being and doing whatever He wills.

The verse you're quoting here is in reference to His character; His character is the same and always will be.

Is that in your Bible? ... because I don't see the word, "character," in mine. He is the same, and has never changed and never will. What do you think? God has to go to school and learn things? Do you think He watches CNN to see what is happening? He knows everything that will ever happen before it happens. He knew the name of the last person who will ever be born to the sons of Adam before He laid the foundation of the earth.

Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

 

[godrulz]

Love and time are aspects of a personal God's experience. It is not logical that God is love means that love is God or God is subject to love.

 

[Aimiel]

God is the love that we all feel, know, understand, guess about, wonder about or have any experience with whatsoever. If you have ever felt a cool breeze on a warm day, it was an expression of God's Love for you. If anything ever made you feel loved or made you love someone, you were feeling God. He is the love we experience. It is just one aspect of Him that is the most of Who He is. He is Holy. His Love is perfect. There is no end to His Love.

1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Ephesians 3:16-19
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

We have The Mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

We have His Love, in It's fullness, in our hearts and minds. We are able to know His Love and comprehend His Presence in us. We can look to That Love in our own hearts, which is God's Dwellingplace to find solace for ourselves or others. We fellowship with His when His Love pours out of our belly as Living Water. Our mind and our heart are His. We gave ourselves to Him when we invited Him into our lives. We are forgiven. We are loved with an everlasting love. We can only grow that love by giving it to others and bringing them into The Kingdom... but our job isn't done there... we have to draw our fellow-Christian closer to The Lord. It isn't by goading that we can do this, it is only by drawing closer ourselves. The Goodness of God others see in us will draw them to Him. Lift Him up!

 

[Letsargue]

God is the love that we all feel, know, understand, guess about, wonder about or have any experience with whatsoever. If you have ever felt a cool breeze on a warm day, it was an expression of God's Love for you. If anything ever made you feel loved or made you love someone, you were feeling God. He is the love we experience. It is just one aspect of Him that is the most of Who He is. He is Holy. His Love is perfect. There is no end to His Love.

1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Ephesians 3:16-19
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

We have The Mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

We have His Love, in It's fullness, in our hearts and minds. We are able to know His Love and comprehend His Presence in us. We can look to That Love in our own hearts, which is God's Dwellingplace to find solace for ourselves or others. We fellowship with His when His Love pours out of our belly as Living Water. Our mind and our heart are His. We gave ourselves to Him when we invited Him into our lives. We are forgiven. We are loved with an everlasting love. We can only grow that love by giving it to others and bringing them into The Kingdom... but our job isn't done there... we have to draw our fellow-Christian closer to The Lord. It isn't by goading that we can do this, it is only by drawing closer ourselves. The Goodness of God others see in us will draw them to Him. Lift Him up!

Where did you get that God’s Love is something we “Feel”?? – You just left OUT Faith!! – After Faith, - comes “Know” - ledge - of God’s Love in that we also ( Loved Him ) / ( “His Fulfilled Word” ) / His Christ, who is God’s (( LOVE )), and are wedded to God!! - To Know God, is to be wedded to Him; - Remember? – And He “Knew” His Wife!!!! - God does, and We KNOW Him, for We are Her!!!


The Church / the Body of Christ ( Cannot have the Mind of Christ ) until the Head is Married to the Body, not just "Espoused" to the Head!! - Read it!!!

Paul -- 070613

 

[Christian Liberty]

Just because there was no measurement of time does not mean there was no time. God moved; He did things. Or are you wanting to argue that God did absolutely nothing for eternity until He created the Heavens and the Earth?

How do we know that he did anything?

I'm not saying he didn't, I'm just not sure how we'd know.

 

[Letsargue]

How do we know that he did anything?

I'm not saying he didn't, I'm just not sure how we'd know.

If God said, “Let there be Light”, --- and there was Light; - What was that Light, and who, or what said that, other than that Light, if there was nothing but God at the TIME of the Saying, “Let there be Light”??? – That Light had to be something, - or some where before that!! ---- That Light was but a Dream of God, along with ALL the rest that God said after that Light was, and before Time Began!! -- God never had to move, or Do anything but Speak after His Dream, and the Son interpreted His Father’s Dream into the Truth / the Word of God!!! --- ( John 17:5 KJV ) ---&--- ( 2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV ) ---///---

Paul – 070613

 

[Aimiel]

Where did you get that God’s Love is something we “Feel”?

Without feeling love, you'd have no knowledge of love. Without faith you cannot know the depth of love. Without depth you simply make posts that never make any sense.

 

[Lon]

Really simply, let's put this thread to bed:

<--------------------------->

Are there any points on this line? Yes or no?

 

[Letsargue]

Really simply, let's put this thread to bed:

<--------------------------->

Are there any points on this line? Yes or no?

Yes!! -- I Want that also!!


Paul -- 070613

 

[Lon]

Yes!! -- I Want that also!!


Paul -- 070613

Can you show me one?

 

[Letsargue]

Can you show me one?

That’s not what I saw. – I saw you say, - “Lets put this Thread to bed”, and I said, -- “Yes, that’s what I want also”. --- What’s the Point??

Paul – 070713

 

[Lon]

That’s not what I saw. – I saw you say, - “Lets put this Thread to bed”, and I said, -- “Yes, that’s what I want also”. --- What’s the Point??

Paul – 070713

Thanks, I couldn't find one either (because there isn't one) :up:

 

[Letsargue]

Without feeling love, you'd have no knowledge of love. Without faith you cannot know the depth of love. Without depth you simply make posts that never make any sense.

God NEVER Said Anything like that!!!

Your Love of Christ, IS the -- (( “Doing” )) what He said!!! – That’s what God Said!!! – And Christ’s Love of you, is Blessing you for Loving / ((( Doing—Him ))), Christ is to be DONE / “DONE”!!!!!!! -- God and the Son IS Doing Them; - they are the ( Faith ) of Believing their DOINGS / WORD!!

But, - you ALL say that Christ has not Come yet!! – You can’t possibly ( “Know” ) Christ unless He has Come again and ((( Received You unto Himself ))), that where He IS; - THERE you are also??? – How can you be IN Him, and He not come and (( Received YOU ))?? - None of you make any sense with your contradictions!! – To ((( KNOW ))) Christ is to be Married to Him, as the Bride has Wed to Him, and (( You all say that He has not Come and received you )), - BUT (( you have Received Him ))!! – (( How is that Possible ))??? – You are Greater than Christ, in that you can ( Receive Him, before He Receives You )!!! -- You all are Really Wonder Workers!!!

Paul – 070713

 

[Lighthouse]

Logically, were He subject to time, He wouldn't be God, time would.

How is that logical? He is subject to love, is He not? And the Bible tells us He is love. Can you show that He is not also time? That time is not one of his attributes?

He can appear in whatever Form He needs, since He is The Great I Am. By calling Himself that, He lets us know that He IS Whomever or Whatever He needs to be when He needs to be it.

But you argued that He never changes in any capacity.

He is The Creator. He is The Ancient of Days. He is The Deliverer. He is The Lamb. He is The Lion.

And He never ceases to be those.

He is The Alpha and Omega, beginning and end (of time). He is above time.

Where do you get that He is the beginning and end of time? The verse in question holds no reference to time. You are arguing from silence. The idea that He is above time is also an argument from silence.

Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

The earth doesn't have a 'circle' but time is a circle, since it has a beginning and an end which is the same point: God. He sits upon that circle since He is above it having created it.

Are you kidding me?!:doh:

Do you know what a sphere is? And where are you getting that time is a circle? Or that the start and finish are the same point: is this a race?

What Scripture states God created time?

Where is any of your Scripture?

No, but I do see that your image of Him needs enlarged. He is more than you think He is, without ever changing, but manifests as He wills, similar to someone putting on a costume and playing a character in a movie. They don't change, but their role does. They're still the same person, but acting out a part to make a specific character come to life. God's Character is far more than anyone realizes. He is capable of being and doing whatever He wills.

Even actors change costumes, make up, mannerisms, voices, etc.

Is that in your Bible? ... because I don't see the word, "character," in mine.

Then you're not looking hard enough.

Romans 5:4
Philippians 2:22

He is the same, and has never changed and never will.

Has he ever repented of something He said He would do, or thought to do?

What do you think? God has to go to school and learn things? Do you think He watches CNN to see what is happening? He knows everything that will ever happen before it happens. He knew the name of the last person who will ever be born to the sons of Adam before He laid the foundation of the earth.

Can you back any of this up with Scripture?

Here's one for you: Did God know what Adam would name the animals before He brought them to Adam to name?

Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

This doesn't support any of your argument. It doesn't state that God simply knows what will happen, it states that when God declares something He will make it happen.

How do we know that he did anything?

I'm not saying he didn't, I'm just not sure how we'd know.

We know that He did something at some point, so it is illogical to assume, or attempt to argue, that He did nothing prior to that.

Really simply, let's put this thread to bed:

<--------------------------->

Are there any points on this line? Yes or no?

According to Einstein there are an infinite number of points.

 

[Christian Liberty]

We know that He did something at some point, so it is illogical to assume, or attempt to argue, that He did nothing prior to that.

I don't disagree with you. Heck, I happen to think its very possible that the angels lived some sort of life on earth between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 (I don't necessarily believe this, but I think its very possible). The Earth was "Without form, and void" which to me implied that it already existed and that it is likely something lived on it before we did.

I was just curious what scriptural text you were using to suggest that God did something before Genesis 1:1, I was playing devil's advocate, not seriously disagreeing.

In any event, regarding the whole open theist thing, if God were stuck in time and couldn't see the future, how would he really be God? I mean, isn't "All powerful" kind of in the definition of God? Omnipotent?

Secondly, if God can't see the future, couldn't he make mistakes? And if he could, why should we listen to him? Granted, I get that God could just zap us if he really wanted to, but considering he is a loving God, I seriously doubt that would be his answer if I honestly asked him that question. If he's fallible, why should we listen to him?

Third: How does prophecy work without foreknowledge of the future? Could a prophecy have theoretically failed if God didn't know the future? How did God know the Roman soldiers would crucify his son anyway? Couldn't they have chosen not to? How did God know they would?

Even if there's no particular scriptural text that says "God is outside of time" I still think that's the logical principle considering that God is omnipotent, perfect, and can clearly tell the future via prophecy.

 

[Letsargue]

I don't disagree with you. Heck, I happen to think its very possible that the angels lived some sort of life on earth between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 (I don't necessarily believe this, but I think its very possible). The Earth was "Without form, and void" which to me implied that it already existed and that it is likely something lived on it before we did.

I was just curious what scriptural text you were using to suggest that God did something before Genesis 1:1, I was playing devil's advocate, not seriously disagreeing.

In any event, regarding the whole open theist thing, if God were stuck in time and couldn't see the future, how would he really be God? I mean, isn't "All powerful" kind of in the definition of God? Omnipotent?

Secondly, if God can't see the future, couldn't he make mistakes? And if he could, why should we listen to him? Granted, I get that God could just zap us if he really wanted to, but considering he is a loving God, I seriously doubt that would be his answer if I honestly asked him that question. If he's fallible, why should we listen to him?

Third: How does prophecy work without foreknowledge of the future? Could a prophecy have theoretically failed if God didn't know the future? How did God know the Roman soldiers would crucify his son anyway? Couldn't they have chosen not to? How did God know they would?

Even if there's no particular scriptural text that says "God is outside of time" I still think that's the logical principle considering that God is omnipotent, perfect, and can clearly tell the future via prophecy.

Define for us all, what, ( "Without Form" ) and ( "Void" ) Means!! - If God ( "Formed" Man ) and the earth was ( Without Form ) And ( "Void" ); -------- means that it ((( Did not exist yet ))), but in the mind of God!! - Just read the Words, they mean something, and not what everyone trys to make them out to be!!!

Paul -- 070713

 

[Lon]

According to Einstein there are an infinite number of points.

No, there are an infinite number of points in a segment, not a line.
If you assign one point, you no longer have a line, but two rays. If you assign a second, you no longer have two rays, but a segment (Einstein saying the number is infinite means 'meaningless.' He was explaining the problem of measurement (assigning points).

There is no way, at all, you can place a point on an eternal past. We have no language to even express this fact. An eternal past, in our language and understanding is still going. Doesn't make sense, but there you are.

"IF" you try and say God is only in Time, you literally deny He is eternal. There is no way out of it. If you say one, you are saying the other.

These two are mutually exclusive statements.

"Time" literally, is a segment and finite.

There is no logical way out of that.